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	<title>Comments on: Big Scientists Pick Big Science&#039;s Biggest Mistakes</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2010/11/23/big-scientists-pick-big-sciences-biggest-mistakes/</link>
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		<title>By: Paulvs</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2010/11/23/big-scientists-pick-big-sciences-biggest-mistakes/#comment-23812</link>
		<dc:creator>Paulvs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Feb 2011 13:37:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/?p=14401#comment-23812</guid>
		<description>I vote for the HIV=AIDS hypothesis, which has been ruling for 30 years now, and for which enormous amounts have been spent in vain, and big campaigns have been organized to disinform and scare people.
I do not understand why the whole world did not wake up in a shock when this interview was published with dr. Luc Montagnier, who won the NobelPrize for the discovery of HIV.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQoNW7lOnT4</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I vote for the HIV=AIDS hypothesis, which has been ruling for 30 years now, and for which enormous amounts have been spent in vain, and big campaigns have been organized to disinform and scare people.<br />
I do not understand why the whole world did not wake up in a shock when this interview was published with dr. Luc Montagnier, who won the NobelPrize for the discovery of HIV.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQoNW7lOnT4" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQoNW7lOnT4</a></p>
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		<title>By: H. J.</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2010/11/23/big-scientists-pick-big-sciences-biggest-mistakes/#comment-23811</link>
		<dc:creator>H. J.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Dec 2010 19:50:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/?p=14401#comment-23811</guid>
		<description>Amusing.  The one thing  I haven&#039;t seen mentioned here is ego.  Not that the concept of ego is a scientific fail  but that ego plays a role in why incorrect concepts take so long to to be overturned.  If you are a smart guy and are the chair of some academic department or professor of something or other of course you know the &quot;right&quot; answer.  All of the the professors of geology knew that the continents didn&#039;t move.  When Wegner pointed it out, well he was a weather researcher, what did he know about geology?   The  incorrect ideas about the formation of coulees was held for years, even when challenged by other geologists because the wise-men knew the answer.  And they knew they knew so anything else had to be wrong.

Scientists, like politicians, like everyone else, are loath to admit they are or were wrong.

Here is a question.  What will be the next big scientific fail?

My guess.   Global Warming AKA Climate Change.

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amusing.  The one thing  I haven&#8217;t seen mentioned here is ego.  Not that the concept of ego is a scientific fail  but that ego plays a role in why incorrect concepts take so long to to be overturned.  If you are a smart guy and are the chair of some academic department or professor of something or other of course you know the &#8220;right&#8221; answer.  All of the the professors of geology knew that the continents didn&#8217;t move.  When Wegner pointed it out, well he was a weather researcher, what did he know about geology?   The  incorrect ideas about the formation of coulees was held for years, even when challenged by other geologists because the wise-men knew the answer.  And they knew they knew so anything else had to be wrong.</p>
<p>Scientists, like politicians, like everyone else, are loath to admit they are or were wrong.</p>
<p>Here is a question.  What will be the next big scientific fail?</p>
<p>My guess.   Global Warming AKA Climate Change.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt B.</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2010/11/23/big-scientists-pick-big-sciences-biggest-mistakes/#comment-23810</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 2010 22:48:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/?p=14401#comment-23810</guid>
		<description>Jennifer Welsh is right. I&#039;d forgotten that someone did the math on geocentrism and that the model was refined over time. But as for the other ideas, I absolutely think that simply believing the first explanation you come up with isn&#039;t scientific.

A good example of an overturn would be phlogiston.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jennifer Welsh is right. I&#8217;d forgotten that someone did the math on geocentrism and that the model was refined over time. But as for the other ideas, I absolutely think that simply believing the first explanation you come up with isn&#8217;t scientific.</p>
<p>A good example of an overturn would be phlogiston.</p>
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		<title>By: Science Warrior</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2010/11/23/big-scientists-pick-big-sciences-biggest-mistakes/#comment-23809</link>
		<dc:creator>Science Warrior</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 2010 01:17:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/?p=14401#comment-23809</guid>
		<description>The world is flat in Eulerian Dimensions. pi.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The world is flat in Eulerian Dimensions. pi.</p>
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		<title>By: cdmsr</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2010/11/23/big-scientists-pick-big-sciences-biggest-mistakes/#comment-23808</link>
		<dc:creator>cdmsr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Nov 2010 04:09:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/?p=14401#comment-23808</guid>
		<description>I was surprised that none of the respondents named homeopathy, a dangerously wrong scientific belief that still has a multitude of adherents and practitioners.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was surprised that none of the respondents named homeopathy, a dangerously wrong scientific belief that still has a multitude of adherents and practitioners.</p>
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		<title>By: Tailspin</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2010/11/23/big-scientists-pick-big-sciences-biggest-mistakes/#comment-23807</link>
		<dc:creator>Tailspin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Nov 2010 20:20:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/?p=14401#comment-23807</guid>
		<description>Has anyone read the Edge contributions this article is about? They&#039;re fascinating.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Has anyone read the Edge contributions this article is about? They&#8217;re fascinating.</p>
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		<title>By: John Merryman</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2010/11/23/big-scientists-pick-big-sciences-biggest-mistakes/#comment-23806</link>
		<dc:creator>John Merryman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Nov 2010 11:36:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/?p=14401#comment-23806</guid>
		<description>Jen,
 I&#039;m not saying time doesn&#039;t exist, only that it&#039;s an effect of motion, not the basis for it. Similar to temperature, which is the scalar level of activity, time is the sequencing of change wrought by motion.
Temperature isn&#039;t considered &quot;real&quot; at the level of individual molecular or atomic motion, but as an emergent effect. Of course if I were to put my hand on a hot stove, it would be very real.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jen,<br />
 I&#8217;m not saying time doesn&#8217;t exist, only that it&#8217;s an effect of motion, not the basis for it. Similar to temperature, which is the scalar level of activity, time is the sequencing of change wrought by motion.<br />
Temperature isn&#8217;t considered &#8220;real&#8221; at the level of individual molecular or atomic motion, but as an emergent effect. Of course if I were to put my hand on a hot stove, it would be very real.</p>
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		<title>By: pspealman</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2010/11/23/big-scientists-pick-big-sciences-biggest-mistakes/#comment-23805</link>
		<dc:creator>pspealman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Nov 2010 02:22:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/?p=14401#comment-23805</guid>
		<description>@ Matt. B
I don&#039;t think you do justice to the difficulty that exists in defining &quot;science&quot;.

Many philosophers of science have spilled a lot of ink trying to find a airtight system of criteria for which to determine science - and all have, at best, limited success. You don&#039;t actually have to go too far in the modern sciences to see this problem as alive and vital as ever; the physicists think they are hard science and biology is soft. The biologists think at least they are science and that economists aren&#039;t. Etc Etc.

If you considered your own examples I am sure you would encounter some problems in saying saying why they aren&#039;t science. As Jennifer Welsh pointed out geocentrism has some of the criteria we think of as &quot;scientific&quot; and I know enough to say that vitalism was held by respected authorities (and, if we include the idea of spontaneous generation as a associated or corollary system to vitalism, then some of those respected authorities held professorial positions even).

Instead of urging you to try to wrestle with criteria for your claim - allow me to urge you to reconsider what you think you are loosing. Science does present theories and then tries to disprove them - that is one of our tenets and is, if anything, something we can be proud of. In the course of dreaming up explanations and testing them some will be proved wrong - it is how things go. In this light you can say &quot;Newton&#039;s explanation of gravity as attraction at a distance fell out of favor when Einstein proposed that gravity was really a distortion in the fabric of space and time which acted upon masses.&quot; Your audience will appreciate the maturity with which you handle the situation and you won&#039;t look like a fool the next day when science changes its mind about Einstein&#039;s theories in favor of something even better like string theory.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Matt. B<br />
I don&#8217;t think you do justice to the difficulty that exists in defining &#8220;science&#8221;.</p>
<p>Many philosophers of science have spilled a lot of ink trying to find a airtight system of criteria for which to determine science &#8211; and all have, at best, limited success. You don&#8217;t actually have to go too far in the modern sciences to see this problem as alive and vital as ever; the physicists think they are hard science and biology is soft. The biologists think at least they are science and that economists aren&#8217;t. Etc Etc.</p>
<p>If you considered your own examples I am sure you would encounter some problems in saying saying why they aren&#8217;t science. As Jennifer Welsh pointed out geocentrism has some of the criteria we think of as &#8220;scientific&#8221; and I know enough to say that vitalism was held by respected authorities (and, if we include the idea of spontaneous generation as a associated or corollary system to vitalism, then some of those respected authorities held professorial positions even).</p>
<p>Instead of urging you to try to wrestle with criteria for your claim &#8211; allow me to urge you to reconsider what you think you are loosing. Science does present theories and then tries to disprove them &#8211; that is one of our tenets and is, if anything, something we can be proud of. In the course of dreaming up explanations and testing them some will be proved wrong &#8211; it is how things go. In this light you can say &#8220;Newton&#8217;s explanation of gravity as attraction at a distance fell out of favor when Einstein proposed that gravity was really a distortion in the fabric of space and time which acted upon masses.&#8221; Your audience will appreciate the maturity with which you handle the situation and you won&#8217;t look like a fool the next day when science changes its mind about Einstein&#8217;s theories in favor of something even better like string theory.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2010/11/23/big-scientists-pick-big-sciences-biggest-mistakes/#comment-23804</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Nov 2010 00:23:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/?p=14401#comment-23804</guid>
		<description>Based on the article&#039;s prejudices about what&#039;s been proven and what hasn&#039;t, I&#039;d say one of the most-forgotten errors of science, along with the cause of ulcers, remains forgetting that today&#039;s scientific certainty is tomorrow&#039;s scientific error, so staying humble about what you &quot;know&quot; is the best position.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Based on the article&#8217;s prejudices about what&#8217;s been proven and what hasn&#8217;t, I&#8217;d say one of the most-forgotten errors of science, along with the cause of ulcers, remains forgetting that today&#8217;s scientific certainty is tomorrow&#8217;s scientific error, so staying humble about what you &#8220;know&#8221; is the best position.</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer Welsh</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2010/11/23/big-scientists-pick-big-sciences-biggest-mistakes/#comment-23803</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer Welsh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Nov 2010 21:14:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/?p=14401#comment-23803</guid>
		<description>@Matt B.

I wouldn&#039;t completely agree with you there about the geocentrism comment, as per Charles Simonyi&#039;s response to Thayler&#039;s question (though I do agree about the others):

&quot;With the geocentric world it is a different matter — geocentrism was indeed scientifically held (with Ptolemy being the best proponent) and it is indeed false — but not to the same extent as the Peripatetic Mechanics. The real issue was precision of prediction — and the complicated system of Ptolemy gave excellent results, indeed better results than Copernicus (which made the breakthrough idea of Copernicus a difficult sell — just put yourself into the shoes of someone in his time.)

Real improvement in precision came only with Kepler and the elliptical orbits which were arrived at in part by scientific genius, by being a stickler for accuracy, and in part by mad superstition (music of the spheres, etc.) From his point of view, putting the coordinate system around the sun simplified his calculations. The final significance of putting the sun into the center was to be able to associate a physical effect — gravitation — with the cause of that effect, namely with the sun. But this did not really matter before Newton.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Matt B.</p>
<p>I wouldn&#8217;t completely agree with you there about the geocentrism comment, as per Charles Simonyi&#8217;s response to Thayler&#8217;s question (though I do agree about the others):</p>
<p>&#8220;With the geocentric world it is a different matter — geocentrism was indeed scientifically held (with Ptolemy being the best proponent) and it is indeed false — but not to the same extent as the Peripatetic Mechanics. The real issue was precision of prediction — and the complicated system of Ptolemy gave excellent results, indeed better results than Copernicus (which made the breakthrough idea of Copernicus a difficult sell — just put yourself into the shoes of someone in his time.)</p>
<p>Real improvement in precision came only with Kepler and the elliptical orbits which were arrived at in part by scientific genius, by being a stickler for accuracy, and in part by mad superstition (music of the spheres, etc.) From his point of view, putting the coordinate system around the sun simplified his calculations. The final significance of putting the sun into the center was to be able to associate a physical effect — gravitation — with the cause of that effect, namely with the sun. But this did not really matter before Newton.&#8221;</p>
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