Comments on: Who are the creationists? (by the numbers) http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/05/who-are-the-creationists-by-the-numbers/ Fri, 24 May 2013 15:27:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.2 By: Bob Calder http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/05/who-are-the-creationists-by-the-numbers/#comment-22060 Bob Calder Mon, 24 May 2010 02:10:29 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=4217#comment-22060 Razib, you need to look at a distribution map of SAT takers by state by percent. It's not at all N vs S. There are plenty of Northern states that have weirdly low numbers of kids taking the SAT. Average score statistics are affected by higher numbers of low SES students taking the test year over year. Razib, you need to look at a distribution map of SAT takers by state by percent. It’s not at all N vs S. There are plenty of Northern states that have weirdly low numbers of kids taking the SAT.

Average score statistics are affected by higher numbers of low SES students taking the test year over year.

]]> By: Razib Khan http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/05/who-are-the-creationists-by-the-numbers/#comment-22059 Razib Khan Tue, 18 May 2010 07:02:44 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=4217#comment-22059 i'm not having a good few days with commenters who i perceive are not too bright. if you think my response above was out of line, please never comment again. seriously. i’m not having a good few days with commenters who i perceive are not too bright. if you think my response above was out of line, please never comment again. seriously.

]]> By: Razib Khan http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/05/who-are-the-creationists-by-the-numbers/#comment-22058 Razib Khan Tue, 18 May 2010 05:47:21 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=4217#comment-22058 and to reiterate, still floored by the regression to the mean comment. and to reiterate, still floored by the regression to the mean comment.

]]> By: Razib Khan http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/05/who-are-the-creationists-by-the-numbers/#comment-22057 Razib Khan Tue, 18 May 2010 05:20:58 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=4217#comment-22057 <i>Why would a self-selection that happened 200 years ago be noticeable today? </i> because most yankees are descended from 20-30,000 immigrants who arrived at this point. <i> What about regression to the mean? </i> learn something about evolution before bringing this up. this is a retarded point. seriously retarded. <i> Furthermore why do assume that poor peasants were less intelligent than rich people, 200 years ago? </i> i didn't say anything about rich people, did i? i meant middle class (as i've said in other comments about this particular migration) as for why i assume that, greg clark's book <i>farewell to alms</i> lays the case out. and in any case, i didn't say that the selection was for intelligence necessarily, but cultural traits more broadly. mass bay colony was the world's first universal literacy society. <b>PLEASE DON'T REPHRASE MY COMMENTS IN THE FUTURE, I MIGHT GET VERY ANGRY IF I FEEL I'VE BEEN MISCHARACTERIZED.</B> as i am now. btw, you bringing up regression to the mean like that certainly means am going to be skipping your comments. you shouldn't bring up something like that when you clearly don't understand it by the way you're using it. am i being a dick? yes. are you wasting my time with stupid points? check to that too. you might want to change your handle if you comment in the future. as a public service to readers which are curious why i point to melkyn's comment about regression to the mean as retarded, <b>if you're reading this weblog you should be interested enough in evolution to understand that if regression to the mean magically make selection effects disappear than evolution by natural selection couldn't occur.</b> read this post about the breeder's equation: http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2007/05/breeding-the-breeders-equation/ Why would a self-selection that happened 200 years ago be noticeable today?

because most yankees are descended from 20-30,000 immigrants who arrived at this point.

What about regression to the mean?

learn something about evolution before bringing this up. this is a retarded point. seriously retarded.

Furthermore why do assume that poor peasants were less intelligent than rich people, 200 years ago?

i didn’t say anything about rich people, did i? i meant middle class (as i’ve said in other comments about this particular migration) as for why i assume that, greg clark’s book farewell to alms lays the case out. and in any case, i didn’t say that the selection was for intelligence necessarily, but cultural traits more broadly. mass bay colony was the world’s first universal literacy society. PLEASE DON’T REPHRASE MY COMMENTS IN THE FUTURE, I MIGHT GET VERY ANGRY IF I FEEL I’VE BEEN MISCHARACTERIZED. as i am now.

btw, you bringing up regression to the mean like that certainly means am going to be skipping your comments. you shouldn’t bring up something like that when you clearly don’t understand it by the way you’re using it. am i being a dick? yes. are you wasting my time with stupid points? check to that too. you might want to change your handle if you comment in the future.

as a public service to readers which are curious why i point to melkyn’s comment about regression to the mean as retarded, if you’re reading this weblog you should be interested enough in evolution to understand that if regression to the mean magically make selection effects disappear than evolution by natural selection couldn’t occur. read this post about the breeder’s equation:

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2007/05/breeding-the-breeders-equation/

]]> By: Eric Johnson http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/05/who-are-the-creationists-by-the-numbers/#comment-22056 Eric Johnson Tue, 18 May 2010 05:19:44 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=4217#comment-22056 Regression to the mean is partial, not total. Degree of meritocracy is nonzero at all times, though higher now than it once was. Regression to the mean is partial, not total. Degree of meritocracy is nonzero at all times, though higher now than it once was.

]]> By: Melykin http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/05/who-are-the-creationists-by-the-numbers/#comment-22055 Melykin Tue, 18 May 2010 03:51:58 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=4217#comment-22055 <i>...the self-selection part is because the massachusetts bay colony was pretty strict about literacy and skills for the migrants. the non-new england colonies let anyone show up if they could pay boat fare (e.g., the scots-irish were basically poor peasants, and many of the lowlanders came as indentured servants...</i> Why would a self-selection that happened 200 years ago be noticeable today? What about regression to the mean? Why would the descendants of poor peasants be any less able than the descendants of richer people? Furthermore why do assume that poor peasants were less intelligent than rich people, 200 years ago? They certainly were not living in a meritocracy. …the self-selection part is because the massachusetts bay colony was pretty strict about literacy and skills for the migrants. the non-new england colonies let anyone show up if they could pay boat fare (e.g., the scots-irish were basically poor peasants, and many of the lowlanders came as indentured servants…

Why would a self-selection that happened 200 years ago be noticeable today? What about regression to the mean? Why would the descendants of poor peasants be any less able than the descendants of richer people? Furthermore why do assume that poor peasants were less intelligent than rich people, 200 years ago? They certainly were not living in a meritocracy.

]]> By: Joshua Zelinsky http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/05/who-are-the-creationists-by-the-numbers/#comment-22054 Joshua Zelinsky Tue, 18 May 2010 03:42:01 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=4217#comment-22054 Thanks, that's very interesting. I had no idea there was that much evidence for the claim. Thanks, that’s very interesting. I had no idea there was that much evidence for the claim.

]]> By: Mary http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/05/who-are-the-creationists-by-the-numbers/#comment-22053 Mary Tue, 18 May 2010 01:57:42 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=4217#comment-22053 "Who created God?" Philosophers have devoted their lives contemplating the question. The concept of Ein Sof as put forward by the Kabbalists of the 12th century is as satisfactory an explanation as I've come across. It's as close to a description of 'nothing' as is possible in human language. A poetic effort to describe the existential abyss. “Who created God?” Philosophers have devoted their lives contemplating the question. The concept of Ein Sof as put forward by the Kabbalists of the 12th century is as satisfactory an explanation as I’ve come across. It’s as close to a description of ‘nothing’ as is possible in human language. A poetic effort to describe the existential abyss.

]]> By: John Emerson http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/05/who-are-the-creationists-by-the-numbers/#comment-22052 John Emerson Tue, 18 May 2010 01:37:27 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=4217#comment-22052 GNXP people tend to be skeptical of culture, but "culture" includes everything non-biological: political institutions, economic organization, family organization, land ownership, law. It's not just things like religious beliefs, poetry, music, and local customs. Around 1985 a Brit said to me: "The Irish have been successful every where they went -- Canada, the US, Australia -- but not in Ireland." Even then it wasn't quite true, and by now it's not true at all, but when the Irish were second class citizens under British rule, bedeviled by a hidebound, reactionary Catholic Church, and trapped in a virtually third world agricultural economy, they didn't thrive. And even in the US they started at the bottom, but within a few generations they were on a par with other Americans. GNXP people tend to be skeptical of culture, but “culture” includes everything non-biological: political institutions, economic organization, family organization, land ownership, law. It’s not just things like religious beliefs, poetry, music, and local customs.

Around 1985 a Brit said to me: “The Irish have been successful every where they went — Canada, the US, Australia — but not in Ireland.” Even then it wasn’t quite true, and by now it’s not true at all, but when the Irish were second class citizens under British rule, bedeviled by a hidebound, reactionary Catholic Church, and trapped in a virtually third world agricultural economy, they didn’t thrive. And even in the US they started at the bottom, but within a few generations they were on a par with other Americans.

]]> By: Tweets that mention Who are the creationists? (by the numbers) | Gene Expression | Discover Magazine -- Topsy.com http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/05/who-are-the-creationists-by-the-numbers/#comment-22051 Tweets that mention Who are the creationists? (by the numbers) | Gene Expression | Discover Magazine -- Topsy.com Mon, 17 May 2010 22:24:58 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=4217#comment-22051 [...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Science Brain. Science Brain said: Who are the creationists? (by the numbers) http://bit.ly/dhYik7 [...] [...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Science Brain. Science Brain said: Who are the creationists? (by the numbers) http://bit.ly/dhYik7 [...]

]]> By: Evolution is false, the Bible tells me so | Gene Expression | Discover Magazine http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/05/who-are-the-creationists-by-the-numbers/#comment-22050 Evolution is false, the Bible tells me so | Gene Expression | Discover Magazine Mon, 17 May 2010 22:04:48 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=4217#comment-22050 [...] Blogs / Gene Expression « Who are the creationists? (by the numbers) [...] [...] Blogs / Gene Expression « Who are the creationists? (by the numbers) [...]

]]> By: Razib Khan http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/05/who-are-the-creationists-by-the-numbers/#comment-22049 Razib Khan Mon, 17 May 2010 21:26:23 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=4217#comment-22049 <i>Razib, is there any evidence that the difference in parasite load is large enough to matter? That seems like a surprising claim.</i> http://www.wnyc.org/shows/radiolab/episodes/2009/09/25/segments/133980 it is pretty obvious that one reason southerners were perceived to be lazy inbred tards is that they had endemic parasite infections. even if you clear up the parasite issues (which i suspect there's still some difference despite modern medicine and public health), the long term impact on cultural values may remain. Razib, is there any evidence that the difference in parasite load is large enough to matter? That seems like a surprising claim.

http://www.wnyc.org/shows/radiolab/episodes/2009/09/25/segments/133980

it is pretty obvious that one reason southerners were perceived to be lazy inbred tards is that they had endemic parasite infections. even if you clear up the parasite issues (which i suspect there’s still some difference despite modern medicine and public health), the long term impact on cultural values may remain.

]]> By: Joshua Zelinsky http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/05/who-are-the-creationists-by-the-numbers/#comment-22048 Joshua Zelinsky Mon, 17 May 2010 21:16:07 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=4217#comment-22048 Razib, is there any evidence that the difference in parasite load is large enough to matter? That seems like a surprising claim. Razib, is there any evidence that the difference in parasite load is large enough to matter? That seems like a surprising claim.

]]> By: dan http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/05/who-are-the-creationists-by-the-numbers/#comment-22047 dan Mon, 17 May 2010 21:11:46 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=4217#comment-22047 ah! all very juicy info. thanks for the explanation and you got me laughin' pretty good at the "tarding out" part:) ah! all very juicy info. thanks for the explanation and you got me laughin’ pretty good at the “tarding out” part:)

]]> By: Razib Khan http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/05/who-are-the-creationists-by-the-numbers/#comment-22046 Razib Khan Mon, 17 May 2010 20:39:35 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=4217#comment-22046 also, in the 19th century, there was a huge difference in public school funding in states settled by yankees, and those settled by northerners. michigan had hundreds of public schools in a period when arkansas had none, despite similar populations and time of founding. the difference was that yankees invariably set up communal institutions which they funded, and literacy was a prized basic skill. but also, southern whites were disease infested pretty intensively until the early 20th century. also, in the 19th century, there was a huge difference in public school funding in states settled by yankees, and those settled by northerners. michigan had hundreds of public schools in a period when arkansas had none, despite similar populations and time of founding. the difference was that yankees invariably set up communal institutions which they funded, and literacy was a prized basic skill. but also, southern whites were disease infested pretty intensively until the early 20th century.

]]> By: Razib Khan http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/05/who-are-the-creationists-by-the-numbers/#comment-22045 Razib Khan Mon, 17 May 2010 20:38:15 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=4217#comment-22045 btw, northern whites have lower SAT scores on average than southern whites. at least they did a generation ago. the easiest explanation for this is that only the creme of the southern whites expected to go to college, while in the north higher education was more conventional even for middling students. that points to a deep structural cultural difference. btw, northern whites have lower SAT scores on average than southern whites. at least they did a generation ago. the easiest explanation for this is that only the creme of the southern whites expected to go to college, while in the north higher education was more conventional even for middling students. that points to a deep structural cultural difference.

]]> By: Razib Khan http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/05/who-are-the-creationists-by-the-numbers/#comment-22044 Razib Khan Mon, 17 May 2010 20:37:09 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=4217#comment-22044 ass dan, i think it is probably culture or self-selection. i actually checked by ethnicity, and southern english are dumber than northern english (and germans and irish). also, southern climate might have higher pathogen load, tarding people out in early development. the self-selection part is because the massachusetts bay colony was pretty strict about literacy and skills for the migrants. the non-new england colonies let anyone show up if they could pay boat fare (e.g., the scots-irish were basically poor peasants, and many of the lowlanders came as indentured servants). ass dan, i think it is probably culture or self-selection. i actually checked by ethnicity, and southern english are dumber than northern english (and germans and irish). also, southern climate might have higher pathogen load, tarding people out in early development. the self-selection part is because the massachusetts bay colony was pretty strict about literacy and skills for the migrants. the non-new england colonies let anyone show up if they could pay boat fare (e.g., the scots-irish were basically poor peasants, and many of the lowlanders came as indentured servants).

]]> By: ass dan http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/05/who-are-the-creationists-by-the-numbers/#comment-22043 ass dan Mon, 17 May 2010 20:29:27 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=4217#comment-22043 Razib, can you explain why southern whites are dumber than northern? http://manyeyes.alphaworks.ibm.com/manyeyes/visualizations/estimated-white-iq-by-state-us is it culture since they're the same race? self selection (smarter people move away) ? Razib, can you explain why southern whites are dumber than northern?
http://manyeyes.alphaworks.ibm.com/manyeyes/visualizations/estimated-white-iq-by-state-us

is it culture since they’re the same race? self selection (smarter people move away) ?

]]> By: Razib Khan http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/05/who-are-the-creationists-by-the-numbers/#comment-22042 Razib Khan Mon, 17 May 2010 20:06:17 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=4217#comment-22042 sei = socioeconomic index. sei = socioeconomic index.

]]> By: Rose http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/05/who-are-the-creationists-by-the-numbers/#comment-22041 Rose Mon, 17 May 2010 19:51:41 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=4217#comment-22041 What is SEI? What is SEI?

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