<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Science is sufficient for any inference</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/06/science-is-sufficient-for-any-inference/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/06/science-is-sufficient-for-any-inference/</link>
	<description></description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 19 Jun 2013 23:43:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.2</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: zach</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/06/science-is-sufficient-for-any-inference/#comment-22406</link>
		<dc:creator>zach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jun 2010 16:58:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=4395#comment-22406</guid>
		<description>These responses demonstrate the need to define priors</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These responses demonstrate the need to define priors</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: anonymous guy</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/06/science-is-sufficient-for-any-inference/#comment-22405</link>
		<dc:creator>anonymous guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jun 2010 11:17:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=4395#comment-22405</guid>
		<description>nitpick: Sephardi-aka non Ashkenazi-Jews Were and Are still discriminated against

example: http://www.cjnews.com/index.php?option=com_content&amp;task=view&amp;id=18595&amp;Itemid=86
news like this is not widely popular, but happens nonetheless.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>nitpick: Sephardi-aka non Ashkenazi-Jews Were and Are still discriminated against</p>
<p>example: <a href="http://www.cjnews.com/index.php?option=com_content&#038;task=view&#038;id=18595&#038;Itemid=86" rel="nofollow">http://www.cjnews.com/index.php?option=com_content&#038;task=view&#038;id=18595&#038;Itemid=86</a><br />
news like this is not widely popular, but happens nonetheless.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Melendwyr</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/06/science-is-sufficient-for-any-inference/#comment-22404</link>
		<dc:creator>Melendwyr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jun 2010 20:03:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=4395#comment-22404</guid>
		<description>If scientific investigation can tell us what is, then it can necessarily tell us what we should do; the second is just a particular subset of the first.

The problem is that, so much of the time, we don&#039;t care about learning what we should do.  We want to find ways to rationalize doing what we desire to do instead.

Most people intuitively recognize this, which is why people think they can determine what a person&#039;s secret goals are by looking at the social consequences of the things they point out.  When that model is applied to a person whose work focuses on trying to determine objective realities instead of producing a rhetorical justification, you get absurdities like the one razib points out above.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If scientific investigation can tell us what is, then it can necessarily tell us what we should do; the second is just a particular subset of the first.</p>
<p>The problem is that, so much of the time, we don&#8217;t care about learning what we should do.  We want to find ways to rationalize doing what we desire to do instead.</p>
<p>Most people intuitively recognize this, which is why people think they can determine what a person&#8217;s secret goals are by looking at the social consequences of the things they point out.  When that model is applied to a person whose work focuses on trying to determine objective realities instead of producing a rhetorical justification, you get absurdities like the one razib points out above.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Adam F</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/06/science-is-sufficient-for-any-inference/#comment-22403</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam F</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jun 2010 05:23:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=4395#comment-22403</guid>
		<description>Speaking as a biologist here...squash the fly which skews the results?!  Gack!  You&#039;d never be respected again in the scientific community if you were caught doing that.  Not to say scientists are impartial all the time, but we try to hold ourselves to higher standards than blatant cheating.  Not to mention that the weird flies are the interesting ones.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking as a biologist here&#8230;squash the fly which skews the results?!  Gack!  You&#8217;d never be respected again in the scientific community if you were caught doing that.  Not to say scientists are impartial all the time, but we try to hold ourselves to higher standards than blatant cheating.  Not to mention that the weird flies are the interesting ones.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Katharine</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/06/science-is-sufficient-for-any-inference/#comment-22402</link>
		<dc:creator>Katharine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jun 2010 02:10:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=4395#comment-22402</guid>
		<description>Tom Bri, do you actually do science?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom Bri, do you actually do science?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tom Bri</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/06/science-is-sufficient-for-any-inference/#comment-22401</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Bri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jun 2010 21:41:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=4395#comment-22401</guid>
		<description>Chris T, it is even worse than you state. Science not only can&#039;t tell us what we should do, but also can&#039;t tell us what is. At least not in the social sciences.

Scientists are supposed to stand outside, dispassionately observing, devising tests. But we can&#039;t do that very well when the subject is other human beings. We are all insiders, and our very act of observation skews the results.

How often have we heard of some interesting social science, say, a survey, and upon reading the questions we realize that the scientists, by the bias of the questions they devised, have created the results, rather than merely objectively measuring a phenomenon?

I recall my genetics professor demonstrating &#039;the rule of thumb&#039; of fruit-fly geneticists. Squash the fly that skews you results away from what you are supposed/expect to find. Scientists are not above fudging data if it conflicts with their beliefs and values.

Unconscious or conscious bias affects all social science research.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris T, it is even worse than you state. Science not only can&#8217;t tell us what we should do, but also can&#8217;t tell us what is. At least not in the social sciences.</p>
<p>Scientists are supposed to stand outside, dispassionately observing, devising tests. But we can&#8217;t do that very well when the subject is other human beings. We are all insiders, and our very act of observation skews the results.</p>
<p>How often have we heard of some interesting social science, say, a survey, and upon reading the questions we realize that the scientists, by the bias of the questions they devised, have created the results, rather than merely objectively measuring a phenomenon?</p>
<p>I recall my genetics professor demonstrating &#8216;the rule of thumb&#8217; of fruit-fly geneticists. Squash the fly that skews you results away from what you are supposed/expect to find. Scientists are not above fudging data if it conflicts with their beliefs and values.</p>
<p>Unconscious or conscious bias affects all social science research.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Chris T</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/06/science-is-sufficient-for-any-inference/#comment-22400</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris T</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jun 2010 19:15:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=4395#comment-22400</guid>
		<description>&quot;This is the sort of thing which makes me generally skeptical that any given scientific result necessarily entails a set of policy or value positions. Over and over I’ve seen the same scientific data leveraged into supporting diametrically opposing normative stances.&quot;

Far too many people, including scientists, mistake normative for objective positions (stem cells, global warming, abortion, etc.).  Science can tell us what is; it cannot tell us what we should, if anything, to do about it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;This is the sort of thing which makes me generally skeptical that any given scientific result necessarily entails a set of policy or value positions. Over and over I’ve seen the same scientific data leveraged into supporting diametrically opposing normative stances.&#8221;</p>
<p>Far too many people, including scientists, mistake normative for objective positions (stem cells, global warming, abortion, etc.).  Science can tell us what is; it cannot tell us what we should, if anything, to do about it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Gilbert Jones</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/06/science-is-sufficient-for-any-inference/#comment-22399</link>
		<dc:creator>Gilbert Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jun 2010 05:36:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=4395#comment-22399</guid>
		<description>It appears you can&#039;t win. Perhaps a disclaimer is necessary when dealing with sensitive subjects. I know it infringes on ideas of science being pure and free from politics, but that we all that&#039;s not possible. Thus, a preface could save you from future headaches.
-Gil</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It appears you can&#8217;t win. Perhaps a disclaimer is necessary when dealing with sensitive subjects. I know it infringes on ideas of science being pure and free from politics, but that we all that&#8217;s not possible. Thus, a preface could save you from future headaches.<br />
-Gil</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tweets that mention Science is sufficient for any inference &#124; Gene Expression &#124; Discover Magazine -- Topsy.com</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/06/science-is-sufficient-for-any-inference/#comment-22398</link>
		<dc:creator>Tweets that mention Science is sufficient for any inference &#124; Gene Expression &#124; Discover Magazine -- Topsy.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jun 2010 01:07:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=4395#comment-22398</guid>
		<description>[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Ron Simon, Geoffrey Dyson and CHALCHIHUITES, ☼ Milky kung ☼. ☼ Milky kung ☼ said: #ScienceNews ~ Science is sufficient for any inference &#124; Gene Expression http://ow.ly/17JTAl [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Ron Simon, Geoffrey Dyson and CHALCHIHUITES, ☼ Milky kung ☼. ☼ Milky kung ☼ said: #ScienceNews ~ Science is sufficient for any inference | Gene Expression <a href="http://ow.ly/17JTAl" rel="nofollow">http://ow.ly/17JTAl</a> [...] </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Joshua Zelinsky</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/06/science-is-sufficient-for-any-inference/#comment-22397</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshua Zelinsky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jun 2010 23:52:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=4395#comment-22397</guid>
		<description>Wow. Seeing those two reactions side by side I&#039;m not sure whether to laugh or to cry. I&#039;m confused by the first individual in that I have to wonder if one has a problem with some group and it happens to turn out that everyone in that group shares a lot of genetics would that make one a racist?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow. Seeing those two reactions side by side I&#8217;m not sure whether to laugh or to cry. I&#8217;m confused by the first individual in that I have to wonder if one has a problem with some group and it happens to turn out that everyone in that group shares a lot of genetics would that make one a racist?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John Emerson</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/06/science-is-sufficient-for-any-inference/#comment-22396</link>
		<dc:creator>John Emerson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jun 2010 23:47:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=4395#comment-22396</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Over and over I’ve seen the same scientific data leveraged into supporting diametrically opposing normative stances. &lt;/i&gt;

The same is true for philosophical principles and religious principles.

It&#039;s been awhile since I&#039;ve read Bourdieu, but in &quot;The Logic of Practice&quot; he says something like: the particular local geographical-historical social form is the reality. It&#039;s not an imperfect instance of some ideal, or a manifestation of some underlying form. Abstract structures and forms and religious principles and ideas and moral principles so on can help you figure out what&#039;s going on in a given case, as tools to untangle the complexities, but the concrete particular society is the basic unit. &quot;Fundamentals&quot; are transformed in the particular case, and the fundamentals will not tell you everything you need to know about the particular.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Over and over I’ve seen the same scientific data leveraged into supporting diametrically opposing normative stances. </i></p>
<p>The same is true for philosophical principles and religious principles.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s been awhile since I&#8217;ve read Bourdieu, but in &#8220;The Logic of Practice&#8221; he says something like: the particular local geographical-historical social form is the reality. It&#8217;s not an imperfect instance of some ideal, or a manifestation of some underlying form. Abstract structures and forms and religious principles and ideas and moral principles so on can help you figure out what&#8217;s going on in a given case, as tools to untangle the complexities, but the concrete particular society is the basic unit. &#8220;Fundamentals&#8221; are transformed in the particular case, and the fundamentals will not tell you everything you need to know about the particular.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
