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	<title>Comments on: Linguistic diversity = poverty</title>
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		<title>By: Songs From The Wood &#187; Death of A Language</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/07/linguistic-diversity-poverty/#comment-23171</link>
		<dc:creator>Songs From The Wood &#187; Death of A Language</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jul 2010 00:07:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=4951#comment-23171</guid>
		<description>[...] writes the blog, The Gene Expression, hosted at the Discover science magazine. Khan wrote &#8220;Linguistic Diversity = Poverty&#8221;. In slightly longer words, rich Western intellectuals and liberals like to keep alive things like [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] writes the blog, The Gene Expression, hosted at the Discover science magazine. Khan wrote &#8220;Linguistic Diversity = Poverty&#8221;. In slightly longer words, rich Western intellectuals and liberals like to keep alive things like [...] </p>
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		<title>By: Lost Your Language? Good Riddance. : : Translation Guy</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/07/linguistic-diversity-poverty/#comment-23170</link>
		<dc:creator>Lost Your Language? Good Riddance. : : Translation Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jul 2010 21:26:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=4951#comment-23170</guid>
		<description>[...] Razib Khan, who blogs about Gene Expression on Discover, thinks all linguists on board the linguistic preservation ark are missing the boat. [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Razib Khan, who blogs about Gene Expression on Discover, thinks all linguists on board the linguistic preservation ark are missing the boat. [...] </p>
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		<title>By: Anthony</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/07/linguistic-diversity-poverty/#comment-23169</link>
		<dc:creator>Anthony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jul 2010 20:43:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=4951#comment-23169</guid>
		<description>Razib - the folks at Neuroanthropology.net came up with some hacked-together statistics about linguitic diversity.  It turns out that there *is* an actual measure called the &quot;Linguistic Diversity Index&quot;, though publication of the details is &quot;forthcoming&quot; (http://www.terralingua.org/projects/ild/ild.htm)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_Diversity_Index
http://www.ethnologue.com/ethno_docs/distribution.asp?by=country
http://unesdoc.unesco.org/images/0018/001852/185202E.pdf (pg 81, and 304-308)

It would be interesting to see the correlation between GDP or 10-year growth rate and LDI.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Razib &#8211; the folks at Neuroanthropology.net came up with some hacked-together statistics about linguitic diversity.  It turns out that there *is* an actual measure called the &#8220;Linguistic Diversity Index&#8221;, though publication of the details is &#8220;forthcoming&#8221; (<a href="http://www.terralingua.org/projects/ild/ild.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.terralingua.org/projects/ild/ild.htm</a>)</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_Diversity_Index" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_Diversity_Index</a><br />
<a href="http://www.ethnologue.com/ethno_docs/distribution.asp?by=country" rel="nofollow">http://www.ethnologue.com/ethno_docs/distribution.asp?by=country</a><br />
<a href="http://unesdoc.unesco.org/images/0018/001852/185202E.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://unesdoc.unesco.org/images/0018/001852/185202E.pdf</a> (pg 81, and 304-308)</p>
<p>It would be interesting to see the correlation between GDP or 10-year growth rate and LDI.</p>
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		<title>By: Anthony</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/07/linguistic-diversity-poverty/#comment-23168</link>
		<dc:creator>Anthony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jul 2010 20:06:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=4951#comment-23168</guid>
		<description>The happy medium seems to be bilingualism for ethnic groups being absorbed into a larger culture.  A Basque who speaks Euskara and Castellano will be better off materially than a Basque who does not speak Castellano (unless he speaks English instead), but a Basque who does not speak Euskara has lost some connection to his Basque identity.

It&#039;s not that hard to raise children bilingually from birth (it&#039;s much harder if you wait until the child enters school at age 5 or 6), if the parents speak both languages.

Definitely, there is a strong case for documenting as much as possible languages which are in apparent terminal decline, especially those without extensive written (and recorded!) literature.  But that&#039;s</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The happy medium seems to be bilingualism for ethnic groups being absorbed into a larger culture.  A Basque who speaks Euskara and Castellano will be better off materially than a Basque who does not speak Castellano (unless he speaks English instead), but a Basque who does not speak Euskara has lost some connection to his Basque identity.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not that hard to raise children bilingually from birth (it&#8217;s much harder if you wait until the child enters school at age 5 or 6), if the parents speak both languages.</p>
<p>Definitely, there is a strong case for documenting as much as possible languages which are in apparent terminal decline, especially those without extensive written (and recorded!) literature.  But that&#8217;s</p>
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		<title>By: Cultural Diversity, Economic Development and Societal Instability &#187; Gene Expression</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/07/linguistic-diversity-poverty/#comment-23167</link>
		<dc:creator>Cultural Diversity, Economic Development and Societal Instability &#187; Gene Expression</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jul 2010 01:58:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=4951#comment-23167</guid>
		<description>[...] of you in the science blogosphere have probably come across Razib&#8217;s recent post on linguistic diversity and poverty. The basic argument being that linguistic homogeneity is good for economic development and general [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of you in the science blogosphere have probably come across Razib&#8217;s recent post on linguistic diversity and poverty. The basic argument being that linguistic homogeneity is good for economic development and general [...] </p>
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		<title>By: Language extinction ain&#8217;t no big thing? &#171; Neuroanthropology</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/07/linguistic-diversity-poverty/#comment-23166</link>
		<dc:creator>Language extinction ain&#8217;t no big thing? &#171; Neuroanthropology</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jul 2010 20:16:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=4951#comment-23166</guid>
		<description>[...] to reflect or consider other options, but just doubles down on his original off-handed remarks (here and here), elaborating them into two more posts on why we shouldn’t care about Indigenous [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] to reflect or consider other options, but just doubles down on his original off-handed remarks (here and here), elaborating them into two more posts on why we shouldn’t care about Indigenous [...] </p>
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		<title>By: Linguistic Anthropology Roundup #10 &#8211; Society for Linguistic Anthropology</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/07/linguistic-diversity-poverty/#comment-23165</link>
		<dc:creator>Linguistic Anthropology Roundup #10 &#8211; Society for Linguistic Anthropology</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Jul 2010 06:56:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=4951#comment-23165</guid>
		<description>[...] Linguistic diversity = poverty &#124; Gene Expression &#124; Discover Magazine. [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Linguistic diversity = poverty | Gene Expression | Discover Magazine. [...] </p>
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		<title>By: Some Links #11: Linguistic Diversity or Homogenity? &#171; A Replicated Typo</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/07/linguistic-diversity-poverty/#comment-23164</link>
		<dc:creator>Some Links #11: Linguistic Diversity or Homogenity? &#171; A Replicated Typo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jul 2010 09:24:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=4951#comment-23164</guid>
		<description>[...] language, Linguistic Diversity, Neuroanthropology, New York Times, Susan Schaller by wintz   Linguistic Diversity = Poverty. Razib Khan basically argues, correctly in my opinion, that linguistic homogeneity is good for [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] language, Linguistic Diversity, Neuroanthropology, New York Times, Susan Schaller by wintz   Linguistic Diversity = Poverty. Razib Khan basically argues, correctly in my opinion, that linguistic homogeneity is good for [...] </p>
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		<title>By: Knowledge is not value-free &#124; Gene Expression &#124; Discover Magazine</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/07/linguistic-diversity-poverty/#comment-23163</link>
		<dc:creator>Knowledge is not value-free &#124; Gene Expression &#124; Discover Magazine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jul 2010 22:52:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=4951#comment-23163</guid>
		<description>[...] writing twenty page essays which flesh out all the nooks and crannies of my thought. When I posted &#8220;Linguistic diversity = poverty&#8221; I did mean to provoke, make people challenge their presuppositions, and think about what [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] writing twenty page essays which flesh out all the nooks and crannies of my thought. When I posted &#8220;Linguistic diversity = poverty&#8221; I did mean to provoke, make people challenge their presuppositions, and think about what [...] </p>
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		<title>By: Chris T</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/07/linguistic-diversity-poverty/#comment-23162</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris T</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jul 2010 20:25:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=4951#comment-23162</guid>
		<description>ohwilleke - Preserving languages presents a number of costs to a culture in question.  Since learning a language takes time, that necessarily means less time learning other tasks.  When you have a single common language that you can speak with everyone, the utility of speaking an ancestral language becomes a lot less and the effort of preserving it too great.

As much as we may mourn the loss of diversity; the actual speakers have the final say.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ohwilleke &#8211; Preserving languages presents a number of costs to a culture in question.  Since learning a language takes time, that necessarily means less time learning other tasks.  When you have a single common language that you can speak with everyone, the utility of speaking an ancestral language becomes a lot less and the effort of preserving it too great.</p>
<p>As much as we may mourn the loss of diversity; the actual speakers have the final say.</p>
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		<title>By: ohwilleke</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/07/linguistic-diversity-poverty/#comment-23161</link>
		<dc:creator>ohwilleke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jul 2010 18:56:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=4951#comment-23161</guid>
		<description>The argument for preserving languages assumes that the survival of a language can have a net benefit to society (and in particular, the society of the reasonably far future), even if it does not have a net benefit to most individuals who speak that language, although not much thought have been devoted to solving this conundrum.

For example, our understanding of the ancestral legacy of all of the hundreds of millions of Indo-European language speakers today would be dramatically richer and more accurate if Tocharian had survived as a living language with a small community of native speakers, rather than as a mere collection of administrative and religious texts.  Similarly, our understanding of our heritage would have been greatly improved if a few pockets of people who spoke the non-Indo-European; non-Uralic languages of Europe other than Basque had survived.  We mourn the death of the Etruscan language far more than we do the death (or near death) of Faliscan (the closest relative of Latin).

Likewise, we today would have benefited tremendously in the understanding of our cultural heritage if Emperor Theodoric had not ordered the widespread destruction of pagan texts in the late Roman Empire.

Conversely, the priesthoods of ancient pagan cults who preserved the Hattic language and Sumerian languages as liturgical languages long after they had been replaced by Hittite and Semitic Akkadian as living languages did us, their successors, a great service in allowing us to understand our roots in a way more human than bones and shards of pottery could.  We likewise treasure the legacy that the Vedic sagas and Avestian literature of provided us by giving insights into the worldviews held by our ancestors.

Tiny languages have value in much the same way that nearly extinct species do, and modern science is incapable in preserving either in all ways that the people of the future will wish that we could have preserved them.  Many languages and religions and cultural ideas are received by us solely as substrates of their successors.

If the virtue of dying languages is mostly in the cultural legacy that they afford to our descendants, then perhaps we should prioritize our efforts to preserve them in a way that reflects this purpose.  Languages that are the sole representative of a group are more important, particularly the higher up the linguistic family tree they are.  The language of the indigeneous Andamanese so deeply separated from any of its neighbors, might be more critical to preserve than one of many Bantu languages of Africa.   Languages that were once important, but are no longer important, might similarly be a greater priority than those that have always been the exclusive province of a few thinly populated villages.  We mourn the loss of the language of the Huns who once ruled a large swath of the world or Fulani, more than the loss of one language of several hundred in the same part of Papua New Guinea.  We might care more about preserving the closest descendant languages of the Aztecs and Mayans who left us a rich cultural heritage, than some other indigenous languages of Latin America.

The greater the importance of a dying language to the cultural legacy of us all, the more it makes sense to devote resources of a larger society that doesn&#039;t speak those languages to subsidize communities that can preserve the old tongue and the culture that goes with it in a way that approaches authenticity.

It might also be sensible to try to preserve languages with a mechanism similar to that of pre-modern language death --- e.g. it might make sense for speakers of many Amazonian languages in a region to unite to preserve just one of those languages for their community that is vibrant, rather than to try to save them all when they are all at high risk of becoming moribund and then going extinct.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The argument for preserving languages assumes that the survival of a language can have a net benefit to society (and in particular, the society of the reasonably far future), even if it does not have a net benefit to most individuals who speak that language, although not much thought have been devoted to solving this conundrum.</p>
<p>For example, our understanding of the ancestral legacy of all of the hundreds of millions of Indo-European language speakers today would be dramatically richer and more accurate if Tocharian had survived as a living language with a small community of native speakers, rather than as a mere collection of administrative and religious texts.  Similarly, our understanding of our heritage would have been greatly improved if a few pockets of people who spoke the non-Indo-European; non-Uralic languages of Europe other than Basque had survived.  We mourn the death of the Etruscan language far more than we do the death (or near death) of Faliscan (the closest relative of Latin).</p>
<p>Likewise, we today would have benefited tremendously in the understanding of our cultural heritage if Emperor Theodoric had not ordered the widespread destruction of pagan texts in the late Roman Empire.</p>
<p>Conversely, the priesthoods of ancient pagan cults who preserved the Hattic language and Sumerian languages as liturgical languages long after they had been replaced by Hittite and Semitic Akkadian as living languages did us, their successors, a great service in allowing us to understand our roots in a way more human than bones and shards of pottery could.  We likewise treasure the legacy that the Vedic sagas and Avestian literature of provided us by giving insights into the worldviews held by our ancestors.</p>
<p>Tiny languages have value in much the same way that nearly extinct species do, and modern science is incapable in preserving either in all ways that the people of the future will wish that we could have preserved them.  Many languages and religions and cultural ideas are received by us solely as substrates of their successors.</p>
<p>If the virtue of dying languages is mostly in the cultural legacy that they afford to our descendants, then perhaps we should prioritize our efforts to preserve them in a way that reflects this purpose.  Languages that are the sole representative of a group are more important, particularly the higher up the linguistic family tree they are.  The language of the indigeneous Andamanese so deeply separated from any of its neighbors, might be more critical to preserve than one of many Bantu languages of Africa.   Languages that were once important, but are no longer important, might similarly be a greater priority than those that have always been the exclusive province of a few thinly populated villages.  We mourn the loss of the language of the Huns who once ruled a large swath of the world or Fulani, more than the loss of one language of several hundred in the same part of Papua New Guinea.  We might care more about preserving the closest descendant languages of the Aztecs and Mayans who left us a rich cultural heritage, than some other indigenous languages of Latin America.</p>
<p>The greater the importance of a dying language to the cultural legacy of us all, the more it makes sense to devote resources of a larger society that doesn&#8217;t speak those languages to subsidize communities that can preserve the old tongue and the culture that goes with it in a way that approaches authenticity.</p>
<p>It might also be sensible to try to preserve languages with a mechanism similar to that of pre-modern language death &#8212; e.g. it might make sense for speakers of many Amazonian languages in a region to unite to preserve just one of those languages for their community that is vibrant, rather than to try to save them all when they are all at high risk of becoming moribund and then going extinct.</p>
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		<title>By: Jen</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/07/linguistic-diversity-poverty/#comment-23160</link>
		<dc:creator>Jen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jul 2010 18:50:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=4951#comment-23160</guid>
		<description>Yikes! I think part of the problem of dying languages is a linguistic colonial mindset on the part of major languages and their proponents (be it native or second language learners). I just hope the beauty of many languages never die. &quot;Communication is of direct utilitarian importance.&quot; This idea on the part of the author ignores the the rhythm if English poetry, the lilt of Russian, the intimacy of German, the fluidity of French, or the aching simplicity of Chinese. And that&#039;s not even to mention the major languages and the minor languages I am unfamiliar with.

 In Canada, aboriginal groups that do have access to technology are attempting to preserve near-dead languages with it. That is also what happens when groups attain affluence, their actions reflect what is important to them. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yikes! I think part of the problem of dying languages is a linguistic colonial mindset on the part of major languages and their proponents (be it native or second language learners). I just hope the beauty of many languages never die. &#8220;Communication is of direct utilitarian importance.&#8221; This idea on the part of the author ignores the the rhythm if English poetry, the lilt of Russian, the intimacy of German, the fluidity of French, or the aching simplicity of Chinese. And that&#8217;s not even to mention the major languages and the minor languages I am unfamiliar with.</p>
<p> In Canada, aboriginal groups that do have access to technology are attempting to preserve near-dead languages with it. That is also what happens when groups attain affluence, their actions reflect what is important to them. </p>
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		<title>By: Linkage is Good for You: What You&#8217;ve All Been Waiting for Edition (NSFW)</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/07/linguistic-diversity-poverty/#comment-23159</link>
		<dc:creator>Linkage is Good for You: What You&#8217;ve All Been Waiting for Edition (NSFW)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jul 2010 10:33:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=4951#comment-23159</guid>
		<description>[...] Razib Khan &#8211; &#8220;Do Liberals and Conservatives Know What They Are?&#8220;, &#8220;Linguistic Diversity = Poverty&#8221; [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Razib Khan &#8211; &#8220;Do Liberals and Conservatives Know What They Are?&#8220;, &#8220;Linguistic Diversity = Poverty&#8221; [...] </p>
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		<title>By: Razib Khan</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/07/linguistic-diversity-poverty/#comment-23158</link>
		<dc:creator>Razib Khan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jul 2010 03:05:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=4951#comment-23158</guid>
		<description>chuck, i&#039;m basking in the glow of your respect :-) i was waiting for the day....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>chuck, i&#8217;m basking in the glow of your respect <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />  i was waiting for the day&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Chuck</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/07/linguistic-diversity-poverty/#comment-23157</link>
		<dc:creator>Chuck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jul 2010 23:51:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=4951#comment-23157</guid>
		<description>&quot;I am no longer a total individualist when it comes to human identity.&quot;
&quot;Below I present my model in graphical form. One the X axis is a diversity index.&quot;

Razib,

I&#039;m impressed.  Not only have you morphed into a sane-semi-right-minded thinker, but you also picked up on the large scale dynamics involved.

1)  As for the former there is a balance between the individual and the all:  The particular --  that Mencian mean between the two extremes.  That dreaded us/them

2)  As for the latter, the various costs involved in having US/Them configurations, or particulars, needs to be weighted against the cost of having, at the one extreme, an indefinite amount of  individual varieties (which maximizes transaction cost and individual licence/ (Liberties) -- and with it, in a social context, the threat of bellum omnium contra omnes) and, on the other hand, having just one collective (which minimizes transaction cost and licence/ (liberties) -- yet maximizes the threat of systematic societal collapse).

As you note there is a socio/axio/poli/eco/nomics and dis-socio/axio/poli/eco/nomics of scale, which of course is contingent on the sociobiology of the humans, relative to whatever we are talking about -- language, religion, political organization, business, etc -- given a level of technology.

Of course, what we are talking about is rather important.  As you suggest, idioese might not function as well as globalese when it comes to languages, but it might be fine for religions, in the sense of Political Liberalism and one defining one&#039;s personal Good -- as as opposed to global Hinduese.  Political organizations, businesses, etc. will each have their own theoretical optimal mean between the extremes.

Of course, some of these might work in systems.  Hindu-democratic-capitalism might not work in the way Liberal-democratic-capitalism does.

I will note...you see what you are talking about in philosophy too.  Western philosophy pioneered one way of thinking, a more objective/logical/dualistic/external way, which led to a quicker development of scientific thinking -- and other traditions did their own ways, pioneering different aspects of human reality.

As you know, much of the discourse in what&#039;s left of the West -- given globalism and multiculturalism --is fairly anti-particularistic.   I guess we will see if that&#039;s an &quot;irrational herd,” of sorts.  And if other philosophical perspectives -- which have more nuanced take -- are better suited for the job.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I am no longer a total individualist when it comes to human identity.&#8221;<br />
&#8220;Below I present my model in graphical form. One the X axis is a diversity index.&#8221;</p>
<p>Razib,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m impressed.  Not only have you morphed into a sane-semi-right-minded thinker, but you also picked up on the large scale dynamics involved.</p>
<p>1)  As for the former there is a balance between the individual and the all:  The particular &#8212;  that Mencian mean between the two extremes.  That dreaded us/them</p>
<p>2)  As for the latter, the various costs involved in having US/Them configurations, or particulars, needs to be weighted against the cost of having, at the one extreme, an indefinite amount of  individual varieties (which maximizes transaction cost and individual licence/ (Liberties) &#8212; and with it, in a social context, the threat of bellum omnium contra omnes) and, on the other hand, having just one collective (which minimizes transaction cost and licence/ (liberties) &#8212; yet maximizes the threat of systematic societal collapse).</p>
<p>As you note there is a socio/axio/poli/eco/nomics and dis-socio/axio/poli/eco/nomics of scale, which of course is contingent on the sociobiology of the humans, relative to whatever we are talking about &#8212; language, religion, political organization, business, etc &#8212; given a level of technology.</p>
<p>Of course, what we are talking about is rather important.  As you suggest, idioese might not function as well as globalese when it comes to languages, but it might be fine for religions, in the sense of Political Liberalism and one defining one&#8217;s personal Good &#8212; as as opposed to global Hinduese.  Political organizations, businesses, etc. will each have their own theoretical optimal mean between the extremes.</p>
<p>Of course, some of these might work in systems.  Hindu-democratic-capitalism might not work in the way Liberal-democratic-capitalism does.</p>
<p>I will note&#8230;you see what you are talking about in philosophy too.  Western philosophy pioneered one way of thinking, a more objective/logical/dualistic/external way, which led to a quicker development of scientific thinking &#8212; and other traditions did their own ways, pioneering different aspects of human reality.</p>
<p>As you know, much of the discourse in what&#8217;s left of the West &#8212; given globalism and multiculturalism &#8211;is fairly anti-particularistic.   I guess we will see if that&#8217;s an &#8220;irrational herd,” of sorts.  And if other philosophical perspectives &#8212; which have more nuanced take &#8212; are better suited for the job.</p>
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		<title>By: Caledonian</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/07/linguistic-diversity-poverty/#comment-23156</link>
		<dc:creator>Caledonian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jul 2010 19:53:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=4951#comment-23156</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t see the rigid rules of English syntax as a problem.  If you want a language which can express subtle variations in ideas, it&#039;s going to have to be rigid about &lt;i&gt;something&lt;/i&gt;, because you need a large number of variations capable of representing those nuances of meaning you wish to communicate.  If not syntax, then something else must be strictly adhered to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t see the rigid rules of English syntax as a problem.  If you want a language which can express subtle variations in ideas, it&#8217;s going to have to be rigid about <i>something</i>, because you need a large number of variations capable of representing those nuances of meaning you wish to communicate.  If not syntax, then something else must be strictly adhered to.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Barker</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/07/linguistic-diversity-poverty/#comment-23155</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Barker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jul 2010 10:59:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=4951#comment-23155</guid>
		<description>Globish reminds me of another failed project called &quot;Basic English&quot; which failed, because native English speakers could not remember which words not to use  :)

So it&#039;s time to move forward and adopt a neutral non-national language, taught universally in schools worldwide,in all nations.  As a native English speaker, I would prefer Esperanto

Your readers may be interested in the following video at http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=_YHALnLV9XU    Professor Piron was a translator with the United Nations in Geneva.

A glimpse of Esperanto can be seen at http://www.lernu.net</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Globish reminds me of another failed project called &#8220;Basic English&#8221; which failed, because native English speakers could not remember which words not to use  <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>So it&#8217;s time to move forward and adopt a neutral non-national language, taught universally in schools worldwide,in all nations.  As a native English speaker, I would prefer Esperanto</p>
<p>Your readers may be interested in the following video at <a href="http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=_YHALnLV9XU" rel="nofollow">http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=_YHALnLV9XU</a>    Professor Piron was a translator with the United Nations in Geneva.</p>
<p>A glimpse of Esperanto can be seen at <a href="http://www.lernu.net" rel="nofollow">http://www.lernu.net</a></p>
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		<title>By: Ponto</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/07/linguistic-diversity-poverty/#comment-23154</link>
		<dc:creator>Ponto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jul 2010 09:16:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=4951#comment-23154</guid>
		<description>I made a decision as a child to dump my parents&#039; language for English. I was born in Malta, and live in Australia since a young age. I could see no good reason to speak a minority language on any level. In European terms the Maltese language links Maltese people with people outside Europe of different culture and religion, and confuses most non Maltese people to think all sorts of fanciful ancestries for Maltese people based on that language. The assumptions are erroneous and frankly stupid but it is a good reason to dump the Maltese language. I can speak Italian and Indonesian as well as Maltese and English but I don&#039;t ever intend to use those other languages. None can compare to the usefulness of English, it is definitely a Global language. Mandarin Chinese, there are other languages in China, the Spanish language, there are other languages in Spain, and other languages spoken by millions of people, are not Global just spoken by a large number of people. Not too many people speak Spanish or Chinese in Australia but millions of Spanish and Chinese people speak English. English is a defacto second language in the world, which Spanish or Chinese or one of the Arabic languages are not.

I sincerely hope that Maltese does become extinct. It does not deserve to survive on any level.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I made a decision as a child to dump my parents&#8217; language for English. I was born in Malta, and live in Australia since a young age. I could see no good reason to speak a minority language on any level. In European terms the Maltese language links Maltese people with people outside Europe of different culture and religion, and confuses most non Maltese people to think all sorts of fanciful ancestries for Maltese people based on that language. The assumptions are erroneous and frankly stupid but it is a good reason to dump the Maltese language. I can speak Italian and Indonesian as well as Maltese and English but I don&#8217;t ever intend to use those other languages. None can compare to the usefulness of English, it is definitely a Global language. Mandarin Chinese, there are other languages in China, the Spanish language, there are other languages in Spain, and other languages spoken by millions of people, are not Global just spoken by a large number of people. Not too many people speak Spanish or Chinese in Australia but millions of Spanish and Chinese people speak English. English is a defacto second language in the world, which Spanish or Chinese or one of the Arabic languages are not.</p>
<p>I sincerely hope that Maltese does become extinct. It does not deserve to survive on any level.</p>
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		<title>By: Dominic</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/07/linguistic-diversity-poverty/#comment-23153</link>
		<dc:creator>Dominic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jul 2010 16:10:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=4951#comment-23153</guid>
		<description>My kids speak English and Chinese. With the possible addition of Spanish, I see no need to learn any additional languages. Let French and the other languages die off. May &quot;Globish&quot; reign supreme one day.

http://www.economist.com/node/16213950

Go hang out at universities almost anywhere and you can already here Globish being spoken. Big language wins. Little language loses. Tough luck.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My kids speak English and Chinese. With the possible addition of Spanish, I see no need to learn any additional languages. Let French and the other languages die off. May &#8220;Globish&#8221; reign supreme one day.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.economist.com/node/16213950" rel="nofollow">http://www.economist.com/node/16213950</a></p>
<p>Go hang out at universities almost anywhere and you can already here Globish being spoken. Big language wins. Little language loses. Tough luck.</p>
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		<title>By: John Hawks</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/07/linguistic-diversity-poverty/#comment-23152</link>
		<dc:creator>John Hawks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jul 2010 15:23:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=4951#comment-23152</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Luxembourgish is a language spoken in a small country which is highly affluent and well integrated with its surrounding neighbours (France, Germany, Belgium) but the language is not in decline, instead everyone is multilingual. &lt;/i&gt;

Also by fiat. School instruction actually switches languages for basic instruction at different grade levels.

No question there are economic incentives for many people to be multilingual, and that governments can create more such incentives. I think it&#039;s an interesting question just how long purely social incentives can last, and how numbers-dependent they may be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Luxembourgish is a language spoken in a small country which is highly affluent and well integrated with its surrounding neighbours (France, Germany, Belgium) but the language is not in decline, instead everyone is multilingual. </i></p>
<p>Also by fiat. School instruction actually switches languages for basic instruction at different grade levels.</p>
<p>No question there are economic incentives for many people to be multilingual, and that governments can create more such incentives. I think it&#8217;s an interesting question just how long purely social incentives can last, and how numbers-dependent they may be.</p>
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