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	<title>Comments on: Inbreeding in the Persian Gulf</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/08/inbreeding-in-the-persian-gulf/</link>
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		<title>By: Linkage is Good for You: Backlog Edition (NSFW)</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/08/inbreeding-in-the-persian-gulf/#comment-24636</link>
		<dc:creator>Linkage is Good for You: Backlog Edition (NSFW)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Aug 2010 00:29:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=5923#comment-24636</guid>
		<description>[...] Razib Khan &#8211; &#8220;The Individual &amp; Social Risks of Cousin Marriage&#8220;, &#8220;Inbreeding in the Persian Gulf&#8221; [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Razib Khan &#8211; &#8220;The Individual &amp; Social Risks of Cousin Marriage&#8220;, &#8220;Inbreeding in the Persian Gulf&#8221; [...] </p>
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		<title>By: Taboos Taking their Toll: Inbred Discourse &#171; Blütenlese</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/08/inbreeding-in-the-persian-gulf/#comment-24635</link>
		<dc:creator>Taboos Taking their Toll: Inbred Discourse &#171; Blütenlese</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Aug 2010 05:04:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=5923#comment-24635</guid>
		<description>[...] Khan has some background: Inbreeding in the Persian Gulf&#8211;as not all is well with eugenically stabilized, um, tradition, but that&#8217;s not the point [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Khan has some background: Inbreeding in the Persian Gulf&#8211;as not all is well with eugenically stabilized, um, tradition, but that&#8217;s not the point [...] </p>
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		<title>By: Nondescript American</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/08/inbreeding-in-the-persian-gulf/#comment-24634</link>
		<dc:creator>Nondescript American</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Aug 2010 19:26:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=5923#comment-24634</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m kind of reacting against using &quot;inbreeding&quot; for a title about human behavior. Technically it&#039;s perfectly true, of course, but the literature seems to lean on &quot;consanguinity&quot; more.

That being said, I am very happy to see you note the point by Bittles about marriage in the clan as well as cousin marriage -- or about population subdivision. Many of those in Pakistani biradari are actually not known to be have any degree of cousinship, although it is presumed that they are somehow related. The genetic variation in these groups gets reduced due to not marrying out for long periods of time, so even if you ban first-cousin or even any known cousin marriage there will still be increased frequency of ailments. For their part, the Amish ban anything closer than second-cousin marriage and continue to have problems.

I&#039;m very skeptical of any kind of long-term prediction that cousin marriage will lead to inbreeding depression in Arab societies. Why? Well...it hasn&#039;t. We&#039;ve had quite a long time to test the hypothesis! Historically cousin marriage has only been one of many options. I don&#039;t see screening changing this, because I don&#039;t really see cousin marriage being that much more frequent as a result. People are already not taking into account the genetic aspect. I agree with Steve Pinker that its long-term biological disadvantages have basically been &quot;small.&quot; (And looking that long term, I&#039;d be much more concerned anyway about the effects of more direct transhumanist meddling.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m kind of reacting against using &#8220;inbreeding&#8221; for a title about human behavior. Technically it&#8217;s perfectly true, of course, but the literature seems to lean on &#8220;consanguinity&#8221; more.</p>
<p>That being said, I am very happy to see you note the point by Bittles about marriage in the clan as well as cousin marriage &#8212; or about population subdivision. Many of those in Pakistani biradari are actually not known to be have any degree of cousinship, although it is presumed that they are somehow related. The genetic variation in these groups gets reduced due to not marrying out for long periods of time, so even if you ban first-cousin or even any known cousin marriage there will still be increased frequency of ailments. For their part, the Amish ban anything closer than second-cousin marriage and continue to have problems.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m very skeptical of any kind of long-term prediction that cousin marriage will lead to inbreeding depression in Arab societies. Why? Well&#8230;it hasn&#8217;t. We&#8217;ve had quite a long time to test the hypothesis! Historically cousin marriage has only been one of many options. I don&#8217;t see screening changing this, because I don&#8217;t really see cousin marriage being that much more frequent as a result. People are already not taking into account the genetic aspect. I agree with Steve Pinker that its long-term biological disadvantages have basically been &#8220;small.&#8221; (And looking that long term, I&#8217;d be much more concerned anyway about the effects of more direct transhumanist meddling.)</p>
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		<title>By: Jolanta Benal</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/08/inbreeding-in-the-persian-gulf/#comment-24633</link>
		<dc:creator>Jolanta Benal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Aug 2010 15:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=5923#comment-24633</guid>
		<description>I notice another respondent has already pointed out the correlations with dog breeding. The kennel club types insist that they can &quot;improve&quot; dogs by not breeding those with genetic defects, but of course they&#039;re still increasing genetic uniformity within the breed because the gene pool&#039;s closed. And the dogs get sicker and sicker.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I notice another respondent has already pointed out the correlations with dog breeding. The kennel club types insist that they can &#8220;improve&#8221; dogs by not breeding those with genetic defects, but of course they&#8217;re still increasing genetic uniformity within the breed because the gene pool&#8217;s closed. And the dogs get sicker and sicker.</p>
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		<title>By: Zachary Latif</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/08/inbreeding-in-the-persian-gulf/#comment-24632</link>
		<dc:creator>Zachary Latif</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Aug 2010 12:42:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=5923#comment-24632</guid>
		<description>Fascinating story about the hysterectomy.

http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/society/rise-in-number-of-spinsters-as-emiratis-marry-foreigners-1.672200

Not directly related to your post but here are the new restrictions:

A proposal in regard to the laws that regulate the marriage of Emirati men to foreign women has been prepared, although it has not yet been approved. The law will include obtaining a special permission to marry from the Ministry of Interiors. Permission will only be granted if the marriage meets criteria such as:
1. The wife must be Arab and Muslim.
2. The husband must not be married to any other woman at the time.
3. The age difference should not exceed 25 years.
4. The husband must be financially capable of supporting the woman.
5. The couple must be free of any hereditary or sexually transmitted diseases.
6. The wife must not be banned from entering the country for any reason.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fascinating story about the hysterectomy.</p>
<p><a href="http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/society/rise-in-number-of-spinsters-as-emiratis-marry-foreigners-1.672200" rel="nofollow">http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/society/rise-in-number-of-spinsters-as-emiratis-marry-foreigners-1.672200</a></p>
<p>Not directly related to your post but here are the new restrictions:</p>
<p>A proposal in regard to the laws that regulate the marriage of Emirati men to foreign women has been prepared, although it has not yet been approved. The law will include obtaining a special permission to marry from the Ministry of Interiors. Permission will only be granted if the marriage meets criteria such as:<br />
1. The wife must be Arab and Muslim.<br />
2. The husband must not be married to any other woman at the time.<br />
3. The age difference should not exceed 25 years.<br />
4. The husband must be financially capable of supporting the woman.<br />
5. The couple must be free of any hereditary or sexually transmitted diseases.<br />
6. The wife must not be banned from entering the country for any reason.</p>
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		<title>By: Åse</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/08/inbreeding-in-the-persian-gulf/#comment-24631</link>
		<dc:creator>Åse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Aug 2010 07:38:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=5923#comment-24631</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m kind of struck/fascinated by the Rube Goldbergish way of solving a problem.  No no no, we won&#039;t change our ways.  Here&#039;s a complicated, risky, costly other way of possibly fixing the problem. Yeah, let&#039;s do it that way.

Just thinking about the psychology of it, and not quite sure what to make of it (yet).  I&#039;m sure culture changes (as the incentives changes), but that is a separate questions.  Why would people even suggest such a thing, rather than the other.

(Made me also think about the japanese and their robot thing, and a girl who wrote in to an advise columnist and asked how she would go about getting a hysterectomy, because she resented having to pay for tampons every month - yes that was in sweden).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m kind of struck/fascinated by the Rube Goldbergish way of solving a problem.  No no no, we won&#8217;t change our ways.  Here&#8217;s a complicated, risky, costly other way of possibly fixing the problem. Yeah, let&#8217;s do it that way.</p>
<p>Just thinking about the psychology of it, and not quite sure what to make of it (yet).  I&#8217;m sure culture changes (as the incentives changes), but that is a separate questions.  Why would people even suggest such a thing, rather than the other.</p>
<p>(Made me also think about the japanese and their robot thing, and a girl who wrote in to an advise columnist and asked how she would go about getting a hysterectomy, because she resented having to pay for tampons every month &#8211; yes that was in sweden).</p>
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		<title>By: dan</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/08/inbreeding-in-the-persian-gulf/#comment-24630</link>
		<dc:creator>dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Aug 2010 04:26:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=5923#comment-24630</guid>
		<description>freakin&#039; gold.  more, please.  on a side note today i saw a (pure bred) dog with a lower jaw that protruded at least 1/2 inch past his upper jaw.  sad....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>freakin&#8217; gold.  more, please.  on a side note today i saw a (pure bred) dog with a lower jaw that protruded at least 1/2 inch past his upper jaw.  sad&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/08/inbreeding-in-the-persian-gulf/#comment-24629</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Aug 2010 00:59:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=5923#comment-24629</guid>
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