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	<title>Comments on: The naked years</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/09/the-naked-years/</link>
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		<title>By: onur</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/09/the-naked-years/#comment-25321</link>
		<dc:creator>onur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Sep 2010 13:17:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=6303#comment-25321</guid>
		<description>I should also add that I too thought that you are a Pakistani before learning that you are from Bangladesh. The fact that the first country and often the only country that comes to  mind when seeing your photo and name is Pakistan is a clear indication that you are physically a typical South Asian and nothing else.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I should also add that I too thought that you are a Pakistani before learning that you are from Bangladesh. The fact that the first country and often the only country that comes to  mind when seeing your photo and name is Pakistan is a clear indication that you are physically a typical South Asian and nothing else.</p>
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		<title>By: Drogba</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/09/the-naked-years/#comment-25320</link>
		<dc:creator>Drogba</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Sep 2010 13:13:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=6303#comment-25320</guid>
		<description>I think Onur is right. There is no visible trace of mongoloid in Razib. He looks fully Indian/Pakistani/Bangladeshi to me, not Malay or anything else. Of course that doesn&#039;t exclude the possibility that one of his grandparents may have had some mongoloid ancestry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Onur is right. There is no visible trace of mongoloid in Razib. He looks fully Indian/Pakistani/Bangladeshi to me, not Malay or anything else. Of course that doesn&#8217;t exclude the possibility that one of his grandparents may have had some mongoloid ancestry.</p>
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		<title>By: onur</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/09/the-naked-years/#comment-25319</link>
		<dc:creator>onur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Sep 2010 01:32:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=6303#comment-25319</guid>
		<description>I also watched some of your videos, and there too you looked nothing but typical South Asian to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I also watched some of your videos, and there too you looked nothing but typical South Asian to me.</p>
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		<title>By: onur</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/09/the-naked-years/#comment-25318</link>
		<dc:creator>onur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Sep 2010 01:15:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=6303#comment-25318</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;have been told by a friend from singapore that in that nation i’d probably be assumed to be malay due to my appearance&lt;/i&gt;

I think that is an exaggeration. When I looked at your photos, I have always seen clearly a South Asian and nothing else right from the beginning (and I didn&#039;t know anything about your nationality, ethnicity, place of birth, places of origin, mother tongue, etc. at first).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>have been told by a friend from singapore that in that nation i’d probably be assumed to be malay due to my appearance</i></p>
<p>I think that is an exaggeration. When I looked at your photos, I have always seen clearly a South Asian and nothing else right from the beginning (and I didn&#8217;t know anything about your nationality, ethnicity, place of birth, places of origin, mother tongue, etc. at first).</p>
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		<title>By: onur</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/09/the-naked-years/#comment-25317</link>
		<dc:creator>onur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Sep 2010 00:49:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=6303#comment-25317</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;many of the hindus of nepal have clear mongoloid admixture too&lt;/i&gt;

In their case, from Tibetans.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>many of the hindus of nepal have clear mongoloid admixture too</i></p>
<p>In their case, from Tibetans.</p>
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		<title>By: onur</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/09/the-naked-years/#comment-25316</link>
		<dc:creator>onur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Sep 2010 23:50:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=6303#comment-25316</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;and pakistani sunni islam was mediated through turkic speaking elites (both are hanafi)&lt;/i&gt;

I think the special relationship (I think it isn&#039;t a mentor-mentee relationship, but a relationship of equals) between Turkey and Pakistan is to do with the good relationship (including significant monetary grants) between the founders of the Turkish Republic (including Atatürk) and some influential Muslim groups from what is now Pakistan and nearby Indian territories during the Turkish War of Independence (1919-1923), rather than anyhing else. If the special relationship was to do with the Turkic speaking elites of the South Asia of the past, we would see a similar special relationship between Turkey and Bangladesh, but it isn&#039;t the case to my knowledge.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>and pakistani sunni islam was mediated through turkic speaking elites (both are hanafi)</i></p>
<p>I think the special relationship (I think it isn&#8217;t a mentor-mentee relationship, but a relationship of equals) between Turkey and Pakistan is to do with the good relationship (including significant monetary grants) between the founders of the Turkish Republic (including Atatürk) and some influential Muslim groups from what is now Pakistan and nearby Indian territories during the Turkish War of Independence (1919-1923), rather than anyhing else. If the special relationship was to do with the Turkic speaking elites of the South Asia of the past, we would see a similar special relationship between Turkey and Bangladesh, but it isn&#8217;t the case to my knowledge.</p>
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		<title>By: onur</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/09/the-naked-years/#comment-25315</link>
		<dc:creator>onur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Sep 2010 23:43:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=6303#comment-25315</guid>
		<description>Yes. I was actually referring more to relatively recent times when talking about assimilation and religion. And yes, STRUCTURE-like tests would be great tools to test such assumptions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes. I was actually referring more to relatively recent times when talking about assimilation and religion. And yes, STRUCTURE-like tests would be great tools to test such assumptions.</p>
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		<title>By: Razib Khan</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/09/the-naked-years/#comment-25314</link>
		<dc:creator>Razib Khan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Sep 2010 23:36:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=6303#comment-25314</guid>
		<description>also, many of the hindus of nepal have clear mongoloid admixture too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>also, many of the hindus of nepal have clear mongoloid admixture too.</p>
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		<title>By: Razib Khan</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/09/the-naked-years/#comment-25313</link>
		<dc:creator>Razib Khan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Sep 2010 23:36:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=6303#comment-25313</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I think Islam and Christianity are generally more suitable for ethnic assimilation than Hinduism (after all, they have no caste system).&lt;/i&gt;

an easy way to test this in east bengal would be to do a STRUCTURE analysis of muslims and hindus. though even west bengalis and assamese have a lot of recent burmese ancestry, so i&#039;m not sure. the ahom kings of assam who defended that region&#039;s hindu culture from the mughals were originally tibeto-burman. also, there are several mongolian groups in northeast india who have shifted to a hindu identity. the main issue is that *individual* converts to islam and christianity have an easier go of it probably than hinduism. but in the past it seems likely that most religious change happened communally in south asia.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I think Islam and Christianity are generally more suitable for ethnic assimilation than Hinduism (after all, they have no caste system).</i></p>
<p>an easy way to test this in east bengal would be to do a STRUCTURE analysis of muslims and hindus. though even west bengalis and assamese have a lot of recent burmese ancestry, so i&#8217;m not sure. the ahom kings of assam who defended that region&#8217;s hindu culture from the mughals were originally tibeto-burman. also, there are several mongolian groups in northeast india who have shifted to a hindu identity. the main issue is that *individual* converts to islam and christianity have an easier go of it probably than hinduism. but in the past it seems likely that most religious change happened communally in south asia.</p>
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		<title>By: onur</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/09/the-naked-years/#comment-25312</link>
		<dc:creator>onur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Sep 2010 23:33:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=6303#comment-25312</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;the way my more mongolian looking ancestors became bengali was just to convert to islam&lt;/i&gt;

Yes. I think Islam and Christianity are generally more suitable for ethnic assimilation than Hinduism (after all, they have no caste system).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>the way my more mongolian looking ancestors became bengali was just to convert to islam</i></p>
<p>Yes. I think Islam and Christianity are generally more suitable for ethnic assimilation than Hinduism (after all, they have no caste system).</p>
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		<title>By: Razib Khan</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/09/the-naked-years/#comment-25311</link>
		<dc:creator>Razib Khan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Sep 2010 23:26:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=6303#comment-25311</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;The most plausible conclusion should be that the non-Bengali component in your paternal side is from a relatively recent Burmese ancestry.&lt;/i&gt;

i agree. my paternal grandmother, by origin a hindu, did not look east asian at all, but typically south asian. my paternal grandfather died before i was born, but all claim he looked &quot;foreign&quot; (i have no photographs, and must infer his appearance from my father and his brothers and sisters). for what it&#039;s worth, i resemble him the most out of my grandparents reputedly, and have been told by a friend from singapore that in that nation i&#039;d probably be assumed to be malay due to my appearance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>The most plausible conclusion should be that the non-Bengali component in your paternal side is from a relatively recent Burmese ancestry.</i></p>
<p>i agree. my paternal grandmother, by origin a hindu, did not look east asian at all, but typically south asian. my paternal grandfather died before i was born, but all claim he looked &#8220;foreign&#8221; (i have no photographs, and must infer his appearance from my father and his brothers and sisters). for what it&#8217;s worth, i resemble him the most out of my grandparents reputedly, and have been told by a friend from singapore that in that nation i&#8217;d probably be assumed to be malay due to my appearance.</p>
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		<title>By: Razib Khan</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/09/the-naked-years/#comment-25310</link>
		<dc:creator>Razib Khan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Sep 2010 23:25:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=6303#comment-25310</guid>
		<description>also, you might be curious to know that the chakma tribal people of bangladesh, who are theravada buddhists with a burmese origin, generally speak bengali now and no longer their ancestral tibeto-burman dialect. i assume that recent assimilation of these people would occur if they converted to islam, or switched to a hindu identity (i once met a hindu woman from bangladesh who didn&#039;t even look south asian, but rather burmese. but she was ethnic bengali). i believe that the way my more mongolian looking ancestors became bengali was just to convert to islam.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>also, you might be curious to know that the chakma tribal people of bangladesh, who are theravada buddhists with a burmese origin, generally speak bengali now and no longer their ancestral tibeto-burman dialect. i assume that recent assimilation of these people would occur if they converted to islam, or switched to a hindu identity (i once met a hindu woman from bangladesh who didn&#8217;t even look south asian, but rather burmese. but she was ethnic bengali). i believe that the way my more mongolian looking ancestors became bengali was just to convert to islam.</p>
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		<title>By: onur</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/09/the-naked-years/#comment-25309</link>
		<dc:creator>onur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Sep 2010 23:24:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=6303#comment-25309</guid>
		<description>The most plausible conclusion should be that the non-Bengali component in your paternal side is from a relatively recent (however unknown) Burmese ancestry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The most plausible conclusion should be that the non-Bengali component in your paternal side is from a relatively recent (however unknown) Burmese ancestry.</p>
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		<title>By: Razib Khan</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/09/the-naked-years/#comment-25308</link>
		<dc:creator>Razib Khan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Sep 2010 23:17:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=6303#comment-25308</guid>
		<description>onur, many eastern bengalis have clear burmese ancestry. and yes, i assume i have a fair amount. i am genetically closer to a half burmese/half indian woman i&#039;m sharing genes with on 23andme than i am with most south asians. a bangladeshi i&#039;m sharing genes with has a clear east asian Y chromosomal lineage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>onur, many eastern bengalis have clear burmese ancestry. and yes, i assume i have a fair amount. i am genetically closer to a half burmese/half indian woman i&#8217;m sharing genes with on 23andme than i am with most south asians. a bangladeshi i&#8217;m sharing genes with has a clear east asian Y chromosomal lineage.</p>
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		<title>By: onur</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/09/the-naked-years/#comment-25307</link>
		<dc:creator>onur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Sep 2010 23:14:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=6303#comment-25307</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;he was a hindi speaker&lt;/i&gt;

Very logical. Hindi is the ideal language to adopt in Uttar Pradesh for a Han Chinese foreigner.

&lt;i&gt;from physical appearance and cultural folkways there is a strong assumption that my paternal lineage has a non-bengali component&lt;/i&gt;

You once said that your father has a slightly Mongoloid appearance on his face or something like that, so you are referring to that I guess. As your Han Chinese ancestor is from your mother&#039;s side (I also think he is too distant to have any effect on your physical appearance btw), Mongoloid genes of your father&#039;s side are probably from Burmese people (small numbers of whom live in Bangladesh and north east India btw).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>he was a hindi speaker</i></p>
<p>Very logical. Hindi is the ideal language to adopt in Uttar Pradesh for a Han Chinese foreigner.</p>
<p><i>from physical appearance and cultural folkways there is a strong assumption that my paternal lineage has a non-bengali component</i></p>
<p>You once said that your father has a slightly Mongoloid appearance on his face or something like that, so you are referring to that I guess. As your Han Chinese ancestor is from your mother&#8217;s side (I also think he is too distant to have any effect on your physical appearance btw), Mongoloid genes of your father&#8217;s side are probably from Burmese people (small numbers of whom live in Bangladesh and north east India btw).</p>
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		<title>By: Razib Khan</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/09/the-naked-years/#comment-25306</link>
		<dc:creator>Razib Khan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Sep 2010 22:56:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=6303#comment-25306</guid>
		<description>yes. the only qualification is that from physical appearance and cultural folkways there is a strong assumption that my paternal lineage has a non-bengali component. also, my mother&#039;s maternal grandfather from UP, he was a hindi speaker. so probably not an ethnic punjabi.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>yes. the only qualification is that from physical appearance and cultural folkways there is a strong assumption that my paternal lineage has a non-bengali component. also, my mother&#8217;s maternal grandfather from UP, he was a hindi speaker. so probably not an ethnic punjabi.</p>
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		<title>By: onur</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/09/the-naked-years/#comment-25305</link>
		<dc:creator>onur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Sep 2010 22:52:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=6303#comment-25305</guid>
		<description>As you have begun to get tired of my endless questions, I plan to make this my last comment about your genealogy. :D

So my conclusion is, your known ancestors are all Bengalis from various regions of north east South Asia - and some of them non-Muslim (Hindu in their case) until recent generations btw - except one non-Bengali (I don&#039;t know from which ethnicity) Muslim distant ancestor from Uttar Pradesh, who has a distant Han Chinese ancestor who came to Uttar Pradesh as a merchant, converted to Islam there and married a local Muslim woman. Are these all correct?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As you have begun to get tired of my endless questions, I plan to make this my last comment about your genealogy. <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>So my conclusion is, your known ancestors are all Bengalis from various regions of north east South Asia &#8211; and some of them non-Muslim (Hindu in their case) until recent generations btw &#8211; except one non-Bengali (I don&#8217;t know from which ethnicity) Muslim distant ancestor from Uttar Pradesh, who has a distant Han Chinese ancestor who came to Uttar Pradesh as a merchant, converted to Islam there and married a local Muslim woman. Are these all correct?</p>
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		<title>By: Razib Khan</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/09/the-naked-years/#comment-25304</link>
		<dc:creator>Razib Khan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Sep 2010 22:34:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=6303#comment-25304</guid>
		<description>fyi, my vague understanding is that the individual was han. converted to islam in south asia. he was a merchant who couldn&#039;t make it back for whatever reason, and just assimilated.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>fyi, my vague understanding is that the individual was han. converted to islam in south asia. he was a merchant who couldn&#8217;t make it back for whatever reason, and just assimilated.</p>
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		<title>By: onur</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/09/the-naked-years/#comment-25303</link>
		<dc:creator>onur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Sep 2010 22:30:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=6303#comment-25303</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;have a distant han chinese ancestor supposedly&lt;/i&gt;

That is very interesting. A Muslim ancestor from Uttar Pradesh who supposedly has Muslim Han Chinese (Hui?) ancestors, really interesting indeed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>have a distant han chinese ancestor supposedly</i></p>
<p>That is very interesting. A Muslim ancestor from Uttar Pradesh who supposedly has Muslim Han Chinese (Hui?) ancestors, really interesting indeed.</p>
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		<title>By: Razib Khan</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/09/the-naked-years/#comment-25302</link>
		<dc:creator>Razib Khan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Sep 2010 22:20:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=6303#comment-25302</guid>
		<description>are you constructing my genealogical tree? :-) they&#039;re bengalis. the only non-bengali ancestors i know of were muslim, or converted to islam but were never hindu (have a distant han chinese ancestor supposedly).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>are you constructing my genealogical tree? <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />  they&#8217;re bengalis. the only non-bengali ancestors i know of were muslim, or converted to islam but were never hindu (have a distant han chinese ancestor supposedly).</p>
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