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	<title>Comments on: Heritability and genes as causes</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/12/heritability-and-genes-as-causes/</link>
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		<title>By: Chuck</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/12/heritability-and-genes-as-causes/#comment-29361</link>
		<dc:creator>Chuck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Dec 2010 06:31:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=8598#comment-29361</guid>
		<description>Moehling said:  Luke Jostins: “… you should definitely not be using heritability within populations to try and infer genetic differences between populations …”
Do you agree? This admonition seems not to refer exclusively to twin studies.

Disagree.  If Jostin said &quot;you definitely [can&#039;t] infer between group heritability from within group heritability&quot; he would be correct.  But he didn&#039;t say that.  He said that you can&#039;t use within group heritability to infer between group heritability -- which is silly.

Imagine a trait W that is 100% heritable within both population A and B.  If one can rule out all environmental factors (X)  that might uniquely affect A or B, one could infer a genetic component to the difference between A and B.    If the heritability was &lt;100% within A and B, one could  make a similar inference, if one had some additional information.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Moehling said:  Luke Jostins: “… you should definitely not be using heritability within populations to try and infer genetic differences between populations …”<br />
Do you agree? This admonition seems not to refer exclusively to twin studies.</p>
<p>Disagree.  If Jostin said &#8220;you definitely [can't] infer between group heritability from within group heritability&#8221; he would be correct.  But he didn&#8217;t say that.  He said that you can&#8217;t use within group heritability to infer between group heritability &#8212; which is silly.</p>
<p>Imagine a trait W that is 100% heritable within both population A and B.  If one can rule out all environmental factors (X)  that might uniquely affect A or B, one could infer a genetic component to the difference between A and B.    If the heritability was &lt;100% within A and B, one could  make a similar inference, if one had some additional information.</p>
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		<title>By: Friday Fluff – December 24th, 2010 &#124; Gene Expression &#124; Discover Magazine</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/12/heritability-and-genes-as-causes/#comment-29360</link>
		<dc:creator>Friday Fluff – December 24th, 2010 &#124; Gene Expression &#124; Discover Magazine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Dec 2010 00:15:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=8598#comment-29360</guid>
		<description>[...] of the week, in response to Heritability and genes as causes: I knew some people thought I had over-reacted to the initial item/press release. And I might have [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of the week, in response to Heritability and genes as causes: I knew some people thought I had over-reacted to the initial item/press release. And I might have [...] </p>
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		<title>By: M. Möhling</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/12/heritability-and-genes-as-causes/#comment-29359</link>
		<dc:creator>M. Möhling</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Dec 2010 01:43:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=8598#comment-29359</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.genomesunzipped.org/2010/12/estimating-heritability-using-twins.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Luke Jostins&lt;/a&gt;: &quot;... you should definitely not be using heritability within populations to try and infer genetic differences between populations ...&quot;
Do you agree? This admonition seems not to refer exclusively to twin studies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.genomesunzipped.org/2010/12/estimating-heritability-using-twins.php" rel="nofollow">Luke Jostins</a>: &#8220;&#8230; you should definitely not be using heritability within populations to try and infer genetic differences between populations &#8230;&#8221;<br />
Do you agree? This admonition seems not to refer exclusively to twin studies.</p>
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		<title>By: Ethan</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/12/heritability-and-genes-as-causes/#comment-29358</link>
		<dc:creator>Ethan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Dec 2010 22:04:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=8598#comment-29358</guid>
		<description>&quot;such a position would make human evolution by natural means logically impossible.&quot;

I think it would just make evolution in intelligence impossible.  Which could be rhetorically reconciled with evolution either with a Behe-like assumption that all observed forms of human intelligence were present in potentia in the first anatomically modern human, or by claiming that intelligence is not a thing so its non-evolution is trivial.

This is quibbling since I agree with your probable  enthymeme, that the evolution of human intelligence is inextricable from any true account of human evolution.  I&#039;d be delighted to hear that someone had tried the Behe-like method though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;such a position would make human evolution by natural means logically impossible.&#8221;</p>
<p>I think it would just make evolution in intelligence impossible.  Which could be rhetorically reconciled with evolution either with a Behe-like assumption that all observed forms of human intelligence were present in potentia in the first anatomically modern human, or by claiming that intelligence is not a thing so its non-evolution is trivial.</p>
<p>This is quibbling since I agree with your probable  enthymeme, that the evolution of human intelligence is inextricable from any true account of human evolution.  I&#8217;d be delighted to hear that someone had tried the Behe-like method though.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris T</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/12/heritability-and-genes-as-causes/#comment-29357</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris T</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Dec 2010 18:04:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=8598#comment-29357</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Leon Kamin in the 1970s even claimed that IQ was not heritable at all!&lt;/i&gt;

I still see people who ostensibly accept evolution claim that intelligence isn&#039;t heritable, never mind that such a position would make human evolution by natural means logically impossible.  We apparently do not exist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Leon Kamin in the 1970s even claimed that IQ was not heritable at all!</i></p>
<p>I still see people who ostensibly accept evolution claim that intelligence isn&#8217;t heritable, never mind that such a position would make human evolution by natural means logically impossible.  We apparently do not exist.</p>
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		<title>By: bioIgnoramus</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/12/heritability-and-genes-as-causes/#comment-29356</link>
		<dc:creator>bioIgnoramus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Dec 2010 02:16:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=8598#comment-29356</guid>
		<description>&quot;Leon Kamin in the 1970s even claimed that IQ was not heritable at all!&quot;  He wasn&#039;t alone.  Back in the 60s when I read the popular psychology paperbacks of Eysenck, I learnt that the &quot;inheritance&quot; proponents were the guys who argued that both inheritance and environment mattered - their opponents asserted that only environment mattered.   This preposterous gibberish seems still to infest the schoolteacher population.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Leon Kamin in the 1970s even claimed that IQ was not heritable at all!&#8221;  He wasn&#8217;t alone.  Back in the 60s when I read the popular psychology paperbacks of Eysenck, I learnt that the &#8220;inheritance&#8221; proponents were the guys who argued that both inheritance and environment mattered &#8211; their opponents asserted that only environment mattered.   This preposterous gibberish seems still to infest the schoolteacher population.</p>
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		<title>By: Mary (not Carmichael)</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/12/heritability-and-genes-as-causes/#comment-29355</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary (not Carmichael)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Dec 2010 23:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=8598#comment-29355</guid>
		<description>I knew some people thought I had over-reacted to the initial item/press release. And I might have just let it die until Pollan tweeted it so far and wide. Then I knew it required larger damage control.

I&#039;m delighted to have you human genetics folks on board now. But those of us who have been dealing with these folks on plant science issues for a long time know what they are up to. Some of them are even trying to block funding for research training in developing countries because the bill contains the word &quot;biotech&quot;. It doesn&#039;t matter if you try to explain to them that scientists in Africa need training for managing seed banks, or doing MAS. They use &quot;biotech&quot; as a club to stop research and training. Here&#039;s the bill&#039;s author trying to straighten them out, to no avail: http://thehill.com/opinion/letters/95017-rep-lugar-no-mandate-for-genetic-modification

They are seriously anti-science. This was just a particularly unusual attack, and I&#039;m glad it caught the eye of the genetics community. They are using the same strategies as anti-vaxxers and creationists. They techniques are getting more refined, I have to say. I&#039;m calling it &quot;crank evolution&quot;. It&#039;s in linkage with &quot;crank magnetism&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I knew some people thought I had over-reacted to the initial item/press release. And I might have just let it die until Pollan tweeted it so far and wide. Then I knew it required larger damage control.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m delighted to have you human genetics folks on board now. But those of us who have been dealing with these folks on plant science issues for a long time know what they are up to. Some of them are even trying to block funding for research training in developing countries because the bill contains the word &#8220;biotech&#8221;. It doesn&#8217;t matter if you try to explain to them that scientists in Africa need training for managing seed banks, or doing MAS. They use &#8220;biotech&#8221; as a club to stop research and training. Here&#8217;s the bill&#8217;s author trying to straighten them out, to no avail: <a href="http://thehill.com/opinion/letters/95017-rep-lugar-no-mandate-for-genetic-modification" rel="nofollow">http://thehill.com/opinion/letters/95017-rep-lugar-no-mandate-for-genetic-modification</a></p>
<p>They are seriously anti-science. This was just a particularly unusual attack, and I&#8217;m glad it caught the eye of the genetics community. They are using the same strategies as anti-vaxxers and creationists. They techniques are getting more refined, I have to say. I&#8217;m calling it &#8220;crank evolution&#8221;. It&#8217;s in linkage with &#8220;crank magnetism&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: miko</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/12/heritability-and-genes-as-causes/#comment-29354</link>
		<dc:creator>miko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Dec 2010 22:16:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=8598#comment-29354</guid>
		<description>That is a shame...I really enjoyed The Botany of Desire, it was a nice angle on plant domestication grounded in some competency with genetics and evolution.

That article is a travesty of distortion...(and onur: note the excellent credentials of the authors). I doubt the authors are ignorant of the complexities they are exploiting to appeal to a particular audience or agenda. There are kernels of valid criticism about how the biotech industry in particular has approached the concept of &quot;disease genes.&quot; (For a much better one, see  &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.bioessays-journal.com/details/journalArticle/824393/For_the_biotechnology_industry_the_penny_drops_at_last_genes_are_not_autonomous_.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Adam Wilkins in Bioessays&lt;/a&gt; several years ago.)

But this public conversation can never move forward if we constantly have to go back to just getting our terms straight: explaining things like heritability, pleiotropy, gene x environment interaction... even science journalists for the most part seem not to have a basic conceptual framework for talking about or understanding results in quantitative genetics. I guess this kind of crap is the other side of the &quot;scientists discover gene for X&quot; coin.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That is a shame&#8230;I really enjoyed The Botany of Desire, it was a nice angle on plant domestication grounded in some competency with genetics and evolution.</p>
<p>That article is a travesty of distortion&#8230;(and onur: note the excellent credentials of the authors). I doubt the authors are ignorant of the complexities they are exploiting to appeal to a particular audience or agenda. There are kernels of valid criticism about how the biotech industry in particular has approached the concept of &#8220;disease genes.&#8221; (For a much better one, see  <a href="http://www.bioessays-journal.com/details/journalArticle/824393/For_the_biotechnology_industry_the_penny_drops_at_last_genes_are_not_autonomous_.html" rel="nofollow">Adam Wilkins in Bioessays</a> several years ago.)</p>
<p>But this public conversation can never move forward if we constantly have to go back to just getting our terms straight: explaining things like heritability, pleiotropy, gene x environment interaction&#8230; even science journalists for the most part seem not to have a basic conceptual framework for talking about or understanding results in quantitative genetics. I guess this kind of crap is the other side of the &#8220;scientists discover gene for X&#8221; coin.</p>
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