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	<title>Comments on: &quot;Asian&quot; in all the right places</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/01/asian-in-all-the-right-places/</link>
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		<title>By: Why siblings differ differently &#124; Gene Expression &#124; Discover Magazine</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/01/asian-in-all-the-right-places/#comment-30379</link>
		<dc:creator>Why siblings differ differently &#124; Gene Expression &#124; Discover Magazine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Feb 2011 21:54:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=9503#comment-30379</guid>
		<description>[...] regards to ancestry, I have received some value. I suspect I&#8217;m near the end of the line in this area, unless I get into some serious DYI [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] regards to ancestry, I have received some value. I suspect I&#8217;m near the end of the line in this area, unless I get into some serious DYI [...] </p>
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		<title>By: M M Rahman</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/01/asian-in-all-the-right-places/#comment-30378</link>
		<dc:creator>M M Rahman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Feb 2011 05:57:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=9503#comment-30378</guid>
		<description>Its seems that, you have some personal issue with people of Noakhali. I dont think any wise person generalize 4.5 million people from a single story heard from fathers friend. Its true, they are more religius and conservative than other parts of bangladesh. Bad apples are exception, they dont represet the whole society.

Other than Noakhali chapter, fascinating.....few new thoughts/ideas.












tI</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Its seems that, you have some personal issue with people of Noakhali. I dont think any wise person generalize 4.5 million people from a single story heard from fathers friend. Its true, they are more religius and conservative than other parts of bangladesh. Bad apples are exception, they dont represet the whole society.</p>
<p>Other than Noakhali chapter, fascinating&#8230;..few new thoughts/ideas.</p>
<p>tI</p>
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		<title>By: ohwilleke</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/01/asian-in-all-the-right-places/#comment-30377</link>
		<dc:creator>ohwilleke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Jan 2011 23:03:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=9503#comment-30377</guid>
		<description>&quot;25% of s koreans are christian. 75-90% of north american koreans are christian (depending on whose numbers you trust). the is due to 1) selective migration, 2) the power of the diasporic christian churches in integrating and converting non-christian immigrants.&quot;

From personal experience mostly (1) rather than (2) (my inlaws are first generation Korean immigrants whose families were recent Korean converts, so I&#039;ve spent a lot of time in and around the American Korean community).  Not unrelated, even within the same denominations (e.g. Presybeterian or Roman Catholic), the Korean Christians are far more evangelical than their U.S. counterparts (something also true of African branches of U.S. Christian denominations such as Lutherans).

You also see disproportionate Pentacostal immigration from Latin America, and disproportionate Christian immigration from the Middle East and much of Asia generally.

Along the same lines as what you describe, it is also interesting that the growth in Christian participation and activity in the Great Plains (e.g. the Dakotas) has come to a great extent not from people returning to the Lutheran and Catholic pews, but from new Evangelical congregations in those areas.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;25% of s koreans are christian. 75-90% of north american koreans are christian (depending on whose numbers you trust). the is due to 1) selective migration, 2) the power of the diasporic christian churches in integrating and converting non-christian immigrants.&#8221;</p>
<p>From personal experience mostly (1) rather than (2) (my inlaws are first generation Korean immigrants whose families were recent Korean converts, so I&#8217;ve spent a lot of time in and around the American Korean community).  Not unrelated, even within the same denominations (e.g. Presybeterian or Roman Catholic), the Korean Christians are far more evangelical than their U.S. counterparts (something also true of African branches of U.S. Christian denominations such as Lutherans).</p>
<p>You also see disproportionate Pentacostal immigration from Latin America, and disproportionate Christian immigration from the Middle East and much of Asia generally.</p>
<p>Along the same lines as what you describe, it is also interesting that the growth in Christian participation and activity in the Great Plains (e.g. the Dakotas) has come to a great extent not from people returning to the Lutheran and Catholic pews, but from new Evangelical congregations in those areas.</p>
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		<title>By: Razib Khan</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/01/asian-in-all-the-right-places/#comment-30376</link>
		<dc:creator>Razib Khan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Jan 2011 19:57:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=9503#comment-30376</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I’m not sure that I quite follow the comment: “(interestingly, one sees similar patterns between descendant populations in both the USA and among Koreans. The religions in the “core” homelands are very different in constitution from the Diaspora)”&lt;/i&gt;

25% of s koreans are christian. 75-90% of north american koreans are christian (depending on whose numbers you trust). the is due to 1) selective migration, 2) the power of the diasporic christian churches in integrating and converting non-christian immigrants. similarly, in 1800 the most powerful churches on the eastern seaboard were the congregationalists and episcopalians (north to south). but as settlement expanded to the west, these two denominations did not expand concomitantly. methodism on the other day did.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I’m not sure that I quite follow the comment: “(interestingly, one sees similar patterns between descendant populations in both the USA and among Koreans. The religions in the “core” homelands are very different in constitution from the Diaspora)”</i></p>
<p>25% of s koreans are christian. 75-90% of north american koreans are christian (depending on whose numbers you trust). the is due to 1) selective migration, 2) the power of the diasporic christian churches in integrating and converting non-christian immigrants. similarly, in 1800 the most powerful churches on the eastern seaboard were the congregationalists and episcopalians (north to south). but as settlement expanded to the west, these two denominations did not expand concomitantly. methodism on the other day did.</p>
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		<title>By: ohwilleke</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/01/asian-in-all-the-right-places/#comment-30375</link>
		<dc:creator>ohwilleke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Jan 2011 19:23:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=9503#comment-30375</guid>
		<description>The depth of your historical and local geographical analysis is really impressive.  The notion tha Eastern Bengal could have been basically &quot;virgin territory&quot; for intensive farmers as recently as 600 years ago is particularly stunning (although plausible), given the general trend of South Asia as one of the most ancient places where there was fairly intense human habitation.

The notion that Bangladeshi Muslims might have converted mostly from some religion other than Hinduism is also quite interesting.

I&#039;m not sure that I quite follow the comment: &quot;(interestingly, one sees similar patterns between descendant populations in both the USA and among Koreans. The religions in the “core” homelands are very different in constitution from the Diaspora)&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The depth of your historical and local geographical analysis is really impressive.  The notion tha Eastern Bengal could have been basically &#8220;virgin territory&#8221; for intensive farmers as recently as 600 years ago is particularly stunning (although plausible), given the general trend of South Asia as one of the most ancient places where there was fairly intense human habitation.</p>
<p>The notion that Bangladeshi Muslims might have converted mostly from some religion other than Hinduism is also quite interesting.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure that I quite follow the comment: &#8220;(interestingly, one sees similar patterns between descendant populations in both the USA and among Koreans. The religions in the “core” homelands are very different in constitution from the Diaspora)&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Razib Khan</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/01/asian-in-all-the-right-places/#comment-30374</link>
		<dc:creator>Razib Khan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Jan 2011 21:48:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=9503#comment-30374</guid>
		<description>yeah, both american. his dad was generic white dude. mom was half portuguese. pat is standard r1b, but mat is t1a1.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>yeah, both american. his dad was generic white dude. mom was half portuguese. pat is standard r1b, but mat is t1a1.</p>
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		<title>By: Lank</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/01/asian-in-all-the-right-places/#comment-30373</link>
		<dc:creator>Lank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Jan 2011 21:13:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=9503#comment-30373</guid>
		<description>It could be noise, but it is usually lower than 1.2% for Europeans. Do you know anything about his ancestry? Is he American?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It could be noise, but it is usually lower than 1.2% for Europeans. Do you know anything about his ancestry? Is he American?</p>
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		<title>By: Razib Khan</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/01/asian-in-all-the-right-places/#comment-30372</link>
		<dc:creator>Razib Khan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Jan 2011 21:11:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=9503#comment-30372</guid>
		<description>i have a friend (adopted) who is 1.2% &quot;asian&quot; on v3. my two other friends of european ancestry are 0.0% on v3.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i have a friend (adopted) who is 1.2% &#8220;asian&#8221; on v3. my two other friends of european ancestry are 0.0% on v3.</p>
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		<title>By: Lank</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/01/asian-in-all-the-right-places/#comment-30371</link>
		<dc:creator>Lank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Jan 2011 21:07:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=9503#comment-30371</guid>
		<description>No. Europeans have never had any issues with the Ancestry Painting showing false segments, it&#039;s usually the opposite.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No. Europeans have never had any issues with the Ancestry Painting showing false segments, it&#8217;s usually the opposite.</p>
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		<title>By: Razib Khan</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/01/asian-in-all-the-right-places/#comment-30370</link>
		<dc:creator>Razib Khan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Jan 2011 21:00:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=9503#comment-30370</guid>
		<description>#8, do you get reports of europeans getting spurious &quot;asian&quot; ancestry on the new chip?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#8, do you get reports of europeans getting spurious &#8220;asian&#8221; ancestry on the new chip?</p>
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		<title>By: Lank</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/01/asian-in-all-the-right-places/#comment-30369</link>
		<dc:creator>Lank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Jan 2011 20:48:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=9503#comment-30369</guid>
		<description>With regard to the different Ancestry Paintings in your family, I think that the main reason for you being different is the fact that you were tested on v2, while the rest of the family was tested with the v3 chip (and consequently, the new Ancestry Painting algorithm).

I checked the Native American Ancestry Finder where you can see the exact Ancestry Painting percentage breakdown, and your sibling is intermediate between your two parents. I am well aware of the possibilities where this would not be the case, however. By the way, 23andMe said that consumers who tested with the v2 chip will also have their Ancestry Paintings updated with the new algorithm later this year. :)

About homozygous or heterozygous parts of the genome in the Ancestry Painting, I personally believe that you should not take it that seriously unless your ancestry is close to the reference populations used in the Ancestry Painting, because there have been some  strange results. This is made the most clear in the results of Africans tested on v2, and especially East Africans. The fake &quot;Asian&quot; segments of Africans are consistently homozygous, at a much higher rate than what you would expect considering the low proportion of Asian segments overall.

This was improved with the v3 upgrade. A large part of the fake &quot;Asian&quot; segments on v2 are now African (I am 5% &quot;Asian&quot; and 12% &quot;African&quot; on v3, while people similar to me ethnically are 0-3% &quot;African&quot; and 10-20% &quot;Asian&quot; on v2). However, the Asian segments that remain are still usually homozygous. I wouldn&#039;t be surprised if these changes to the Ancestry Painting algorithm also affected your proportion of Asian segments.

Great blog entry, by the way!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With regard to the different Ancestry Paintings in your family, I think that the main reason for you being different is the fact that you were tested on v2, while the rest of the family was tested with the v3 chip (and consequently, the new Ancestry Painting algorithm).</p>
<p>I checked the Native American Ancestry Finder where you can see the exact Ancestry Painting percentage breakdown, and your sibling is intermediate between your two parents. I am well aware of the possibilities where this would not be the case, however. By the way, 23andMe said that consumers who tested with the v2 chip will also have their Ancestry Paintings updated with the new algorithm later this year. <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>About homozygous or heterozygous parts of the genome in the Ancestry Painting, I personally believe that you should not take it that seriously unless your ancestry is close to the reference populations used in the Ancestry Painting, because there have been some  strange results. This is made the most clear in the results of Africans tested on v2, and especially East Africans. The fake &#8220;Asian&#8221; segments of Africans are consistently homozygous, at a much higher rate than what you would expect considering the low proportion of Asian segments overall.</p>
<p>This was improved with the v3 upgrade. A large part of the fake &#8220;Asian&#8221; segments on v2 are now African (I am 5% &#8220;Asian&#8221; and 12% &#8220;African&#8221; on v3, while people similar to me ethnically are 0-3% &#8220;African&#8221; and 10-20% &#8220;Asian&#8221; on v2). However, the Asian segments that remain are still usually homozygous. I wouldn&#8217;t be surprised if these changes to the Ancestry Painting algorithm also affected your proportion of Asian segments.</p>
<p>Great blog entry, by the way!</p>
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		<title>By: Razib Khan</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/01/asian-in-all-the-right-places/#comment-30368</link>
		<dc:creator>Razib Khan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Jan 2011 18:47:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=9503#comment-30368</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;with the exception of upper caste Hindus and elite Muslims, the majority of Bengali speakers today come from a tribal background.&lt;/i&gt;

the genetics can answer this, as the mundari &lt;a href=&quot;http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/10/sons-of-the-conquerers-the-story-of-india/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;exhibit some distinctive patterns&lt;/a&gt;. i am skeptical of this being the primary answer anymore, because i don&#039;t think that tribal people can transform into intensive rice farmers so easily. rather, the more plausible model is that indo-aryan peasants from the west (speaking dialects which would later become bengali) assimilate mundari and tibeto-burmans on the margins, and totally absorb them culturally.

as for where you read it, this idea is repeated everywhere. it sounds possible, and, it dovetails nicely with the &#039;pots, not people,&#039; ideology regnant after world war 2.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>with the exception of upper caste Hindus and elite Muslims, the majority of Bengali speakers today come from a tribal background.</i></p>
<p>the genetics can answer this, as the mundari <a href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/10/sons-of-the-conquerers-the-story-of-india/" rel="nofollow">exhibit some distinctive patterns</a>. i am skeptical of this being the primary answer anymore, because i don&#8217;t think that tribal people can transform into intensive rice farmers so easily. rather, the more plausible model is that indo-aryan peasants from the west (speaking dialects which would later become bengali) assimilate mundari and tibeto-burmans on the margins, and totally absorb them culturally.</p>
<p>as for where you read it, this idea is repeated everywhere. it sounds possible, and, it dovetails nicely with the &#8216;pots, not people,&#8217; ideology regnant after world war 2.</p>
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		<title>By: vg</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/01/asian-in-all-the-right-places/#comment-30367</link>
		<dc:creator>vg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Jan 2011 14:29:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=9503#comment-30367</guid>
		<description>Having said that, I do notice that the Nagas are fond of dried fish, which may have been a Bengali influence. Pardon me for rambling.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having said that, I do notice that the Nagas are fond of dried fish, which may have been a Bengali influence. Pardon me for rambling.</p>
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		<title>By: vg</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/01/asian-in-all-the-right-places/#comment-30366</link>
		<dc:creator>vg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Jan 2011 14:26:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=9503#comment-30366</guid>
		<description>I can&#039;t recall where I read it but it is said that, with the exception of upper caste Hindus and elite Muslims, the majority of Bengali speakers today come from a tribal background.  Do you know of any literary primary sources where tribal people, such as Mundas and Tibeto Burmans, are represented as the &#039;other&#039;, considering such close proximity. The only references to Tibeto-Burman people that I know of are the Arakanese and the Mag pirates, but I haven&#039;t heard much about the North-east Indian tribes such as Nagas, Manipuris, etc., in Bengali folklore, although they were in such close proximity to the Bengali speaking population. Was there no trade between them, or the occasional raids?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t recall where I read it but it is said that, with the exception of upper caste Hindus and elite Muslims, the majority of Bengali speakers today come from a tribal background.  Do you know of any literary primary sources where tribal people, such as Mundas and Tibeto Burmans, are represented as the &#8216;other&#8217;, considering such close proximity. The only references to Tibeto-Burman people that I know of are the Arakanese and the Mag pirates, but I haven&#8217;t heard much about the North-east Indian tribes such as Nagas, Manipuris, etc., in Bengali folklore, although they were in such close proximity to the Bengali speaking population. Was there no trade between them, or the occasional raids?</p>
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		<title>By: vg</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/01/asian-in-all-the-right-places/#comment-30365</link>
		<dc:creator>vg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Jan 2011 14:00:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=9503#comment-30365</guid>
		<description>Good you mentioned Eaton&#039;s book. A must read for anybody interested in medieval Bengal. I used to work for the publishing house that did the South Asian reprint and I had the opportunity to interact with him for another volume. A good guy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good you mentioned Eaton&#8217;s book. A must read for anybody interested in medieval Bengal. I used to work for the publishing house that did the South Asian reprint and I had the opportunity to interact with him for another volume. A good guy.</p>
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		<title>By: Razib Khan</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/01/asian-in-all-the-right-places/#comment-30364</link>
		<dc:creator>Razib Khan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Jan 2011 08:33:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=9503#comment-30364</guid>
		<description>tx david. i&#039;m IN8 for readers (though if you couldn&#039;t figure that out, you really haven&#039;t been &lt;i&gt;reading&lt;/i&gt; :) )</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>tx david. i&#8217;m IN8 for readers (though if you couldn&#8217;t figure that out, you really haven&#8217;t been <i>reading</i> <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  )</p>
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		<title>By: Davidski</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/01/asian-in-all-the-right-places/#comment-30363</link>
		<dc:creator>Davidski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Jan 2011 08:07:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=9503#comment-30363</guid>
		<description>I blogged about this haploblock survey I did of a few project members from southwest Eurasia, but it came out like crap, so I got rid of it for now. I&#039;ll do something more meaningful later.

You&#039;re on the list...but it&#039;s only chromosome 1...

http://img806.imageshack.us/img806/6326/southwesttour.gif

http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/5489/chr1k.png</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I blogged about this haploblock survey I did of a few project members from southwest Eurasia, but it came out like crap, so I got rid of it for now. I&#8217;ll do something more meaningful later.</p>
<p>You&#8217;re on the list&#8230;but it&#8217;s only chromosome 1&#8230;</p>
<p><a href="http://img806.imageshack.us/img806/6326/southwesttour.gif" rel="nofollow">http://img806.imageshack.us/img806/6326/southwesttour.gif</a></p>
<p><a href="http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/5489/chr1k.png" rel="nofollow">http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/5489/chr1k.png</a></p>
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		<title>By: Uncle Al</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/01/asian-in-all-the-right-places/#comment-30362</link>
		<dc:creator>Uncle Al</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Jan 2011 00:07:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=9503#comment-30362</guid>
		<description>GeneTree says Uncle Al is 10% Asian.  23andMe says Uncle Al is emphatically Sephardic Jew.  Somebody got busy when the Mongols visited Hungary, blue eyes notwithstanding.  It&#039;s all good - special dispensation to eat pork in Chinese restaurants.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>GeneTree says Uncle Al is 10% Asian.  23andMe says Uncle Al is emphatically Sephardic Jew.  Somebody got busy when the Mongols visited Hungary, blue eyes notwithstanding.  It&#8217;s all good &#8211; special dispensation to eat pork in Chinese restaurants.</p>
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