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	<title>Comments on: Who thinks the sun goes around the earth?</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/03/who-thinks-the-sun-goes-around-the-earth/</link>
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		<title>By: Friday Fluff &#8211; April 1st, 2011 &#124; Gene Expression &#124; Discover Magazine</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/03/who-thinks-the-sun-goes-around-the-earth/#comment-31701</link>
		<dc:creator>Friday Fluff &#8211; April 1st, 2011 &#124; Gene Expression &#124; Discover Magazine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Apr 2011 21:29:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=10590#comment-31701</guid>
		<description>[...] Comment of the week, in response to &#8220;Who thinks the sun goes around the earth?&#8221;: This question was paired with another asking how long it took for the Earth to orbit the Sun: a [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Comment of the week, in response to &#8220;Who thinks the sun goes around the earth?&#8221;: This question was paired with another asking how long it took for the Earth to orbit the Sun: a [...] </p>
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		<title>By: Floccina</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/03/who-thinks-the-sun-goes-around-the-earth/#comment-31700</link>
		<dc:creator>Floccina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Mar 2011 19:39:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=10590#comment-31700</guid>
		<description>People might just be being cute.  If all is relative them the whole universe revolves around me.

Who was the first USA president?  John Hanson anyone?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>People might just be being cute.  If all is relative them the whole universe revolves around me.</p>
<p>Who was the first USA president?  John Hanson anyone?</p>
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		<title>By: Sandgroper</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/03/who-thinks-the-sun-goes-around-the-earth/#comment-31699</link>
		<dc:creator>Sandgroper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Mar 2011 17:50:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=10590#comment-31699</guid>
		<description>#20 - Yes, it was a two-pronged theory, that the full moon has a dramatic effect on people, and that it is caused by etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#20 &#8211; Yes, it was a two-pronged theory, that the full moon has a dramatic effect on people, and that it is caused by etc.</p>
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		<title>By: dan</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/03/who-thinks-the-sun-goes-around-the-earth/#comment-31698</link>
		<dc:creator>dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Mar 2011 06:13:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=10590#comment-31698</guid>
		<description>http://9gag.com/gag/96336
burn</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://9gag.com/gag/96336" rel="nofollow">http://9gag.com/gag/96336</a><br />
burn</p>
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		<title>By: Zack</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/03/who-thinks-the-sun-goes-around-the-earth/#comment-31697</link>
		<dc:creator>Zack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Mar 2011 23:20:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=10590#comment-31697</guid>
		<description>Asked these questions of my 6 yr old and am disappointed to say that she got 2 wrong. ;) She did get the earth around the sun question right though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Asked these questions of my 6 yr old and am disappointed to say that she got 2 wrong. <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />  She did get the earth around the sun question right though.</p>
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		<title>By: ohwilleke</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/03/who-thinks-the-sun-goes-around-the-earth/#comment-31696</link>
		<dc:creator>ohwilleke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Mar 2011 20:17:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=10590#comment-31696</guid>
		<description>@ Dragon Horse #15

This poor performance of the Chinese isn&#039;t surprising, or necessarily a reflection of Chinese IQ as opposed to Chinese GDP.  But, it does give one pause at the idea of encouraging any kind of reasonably direct Western style democracy there.

Look at the populist demogauges that get elected in less enlightened parts of the U.S. and then make it worse by an order of magnitude.  It is a wonder that the Chinese economy and society is thriving as well as it is given all of that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Dragon Horse #15</p>
<p>This poor performance of the Chinese isn&#8217;t surprising, or necessarily a reflection of Chinese IQ as opposed to Chinese GDP.  But, it does give one pause at the idea of encouraging any kind of reasonably direct Western style democracy there.</p>
<p>Look at the populist demogauges that get elected in less enlightened parts of the U.S. and then make it worse by an order of magnitude.  It is a wonder that the Chinese economy and society is thriving as well as it is given all of that.</p>
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		<title>By: Caledonian</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/03/who-thinks-the-sun-goes-around-the-earth/#comment-31695</link>
		<dc:creator>Caledonian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Mar 2011 15:16:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=10590#comment-31695</guid>
		<description>There are many things, most branches of science included, which don&#039;t affect my daily life in immediately obvious ways and which I have never studied or investigated to any real degree.

Yet I still possess lots of knowledge about those things which I&#039;ve gleaned from chance exposures - from magazines, books, and television shows which mentioned them.  Watching a single episode of NOVA can give a person passing familiarity with the most basic aspects of that show&#039;s topic.

So just how incurious, sheltered, and intellectually stunted does a person have to be before they remain unaware that the Earth goes around the Sun, in our society?  (Clearly being a peasant in Sudan or something excuses such ignorance.)

&lt;blockquote&gt;My mother has a personal theory that the full moon affects people strangely because it exerts a greater gravitational pull on them than the new moon.&lt;/blockquote&gt;  Rationality Rule #278:  Before coming up with an explanation for some phenomenon, make sure that phenomenon &lt;em&gt;actually happens&lt;/em&gt;...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are many things, most branches of science included, which don&#8217;t affect my daily life in immediately obvious ways and which I have never studied or investigated to any real degree.</p>
<p>Yet I still possess lots of knowledge about those things which I&#8217;ve gleaned from chance exposures &#8211; from magazines, books, and television shows which mentioned them.  Watching a single episode of NOVA can give a person passing familiarity with the most basic aspects of that show&#8217;s topic.</p>
<p>So just how incurious, sheltered, and intellectually stunted does a person have to be before they remain unaware that the Earth goes around the Sun, in our society?  (Clearly being a peasant in Sudan or something excuses such ignorance.)</p>
<blockquote><p>My mother has a personal theory that the full moon affects people strangely because it exerts a greater gravitational pull on them than the new moon.</p></blockquote>
<p>  Rationality Rule #278:  Before coming up with an explanation for some phenomenon, make sure that phenomenon <em>actually happens</em>&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Sandgroper</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/03/who-thinks-the-sun-goes-around-the-earth/#comment-31694</link>
		<dc:creator>Sandgroper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Mar 2011 14:33:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=10590#comment-31694</guid>
		<description>My mother has a personal theory that the full moon affects people strangely because it exerts a greater gravitational pull on them than the new moon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My mother has a personal theory that the full moon affects people strangely because it exerts a greater gravitational pull on them than the new moon.</p>
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		<title>By: German Dziebel</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/03/who-thinks-the-sun-goes-around-the-earth/#comment-31693</link>
		<dc:creator>German Dziebel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Mar 2011 14:12:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=10590#comment-31693</guid>
		<description>&quot;There is this: http://www.galileowaswrong.com&quot;

After this  (http://johnhawks.net/node/15383), I think a few seemingly secular archaeologists will start the site &quot;Father Jose de Acosta is still right.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;There is this: <a href="http://www.galileowaswrong.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.galileowaswrong.com</a>&#8221;</p>
<p>After this  (<a href="http://johnhawks.net/node/15383" rel="nofollow">http://johnhawks.net/node/15383</a>), I think a few seemingly secular archaeologists will start the site &#8220;Father Jose de Acosta is still right.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: German Dziebel</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/03/who-thinks-the-sun-goes-around-the-earth/#comment-31692</link>
		<dc:creator>German Dziebel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Mar 2011 13:56:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=10590#comment-31692</guid>
		<description>Back in the late 19-early 20th centuries American and British anthropologists wondered if aboriginal tribes in America and Australia were aware of the role of the father in procreation. Lots of articles came out reporting that in fact modern Stone Age folks don&#039;t recognize physical paternity. Now, tables have turned, and we&#039;re examining mainstream Americans&#039; &quot;primitive&quot; beliefs.

Anecdotally, people from Catholic families in the U.S. whom I told a while ago about this and similar stats (e.g., the no. of Americans who believe in evolution) explained them as being &quot;influenced by religion.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Back in the late 19-early 20th centuries American and British anthropologists wondered if aboriginal tribes in America and Australia were aware of the role of the father in procreation. Lots of articles came out reporting that in fact modern Stone Age folks don&#8217;t recognize physical paternity. Now, tables have turned, and we&#8217;re examining mainstream Americans&#8217; &#8220;primitive&#8221; beliefs.</p>
<p>Anecdotally, people from Catholic families in the U.S. whom I told a while ago about this and similar stats (e.g., the no. of Americans who believe in evolution) explained them as being &#8220;influenced by religion.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: John Farrell</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/03/who-thinks-the-sun-goes-around-the-earth/#comment-31691</link>
		<dc:creator>John Farrell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Mar 2011 13:39:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=10590#comment-31691</guid>
		<description>The site John posted is truly scary. This is a loud, whacky subset of Catholic traditionalists, who basically think Rome has been run by the anti-Christ since, oh, Pius XII died.

Seriously.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The site John posted is truly scary. This is a loud, whacky subset of Catholic traditionalists, who basically think Rome has been run by the anti-Christ since, oh, Pius XII died.</p>
<p>Seriously.</p>
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		<title>By: Dragon Horse</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/03/who-thinks-the-sun-goes-around-the-earth/#comment-31690</link>
		<dc:creator>Dragon Horse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Mar 2011 13:34:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=10590#comment-31690</guid>
		<description>ohwilleke:

Check the GDP per capita for China and compare with Japan and S.Korea&gt;

A more accurate idea of how Chinese would think if they were wealthier is do the same survey in Taiwan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ohwilleke:</p>
<p>Check the GDP per capita for China and compare with Japan and S.Korea&gt;</p>
<p>A more accurate idea of how Chinese would think if they were wealthier is do the same survey in Taiwan.</p>
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		<title>By: Alfred</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/03/who-thinks-the-sun-goes-around-the-earth/#comment-31689</link>
		<dc:creator>Alfred</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Mar 2011 11:37:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=10590#comment-31689</guid>
		<description>The answer to both questions is yes the sun goes round earth and earth goes round the sun depending on how you calculate the orbits. The former method is actually more accurate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The answer to both questions is yes the sun goes round earth and earth goes round the sun depending on how you calculate the orbits. The former method is actually more accurate.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/03/who-thinks-the-sun-goes-around-the-earth/#comment-31688</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Mar 2011 11:37:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=10590#comment-31688</guid>
		<description>@2, Yikes - I&#039;m not sure where this site is coming from. As a Catholic I&#039;m quite prepared to say that Galileo could not prove his argument for the earth spinning and heliocentricism, that his run-in with the Church had far more to do with his insult of his sponsor the Pope and demand to change Scripture, and that scientific evidence for his argument only emerged with proofs offered by Foucault&#039;s pendulum and stellar abberation/parallax ... but c&#039;mon now we know so much more than we did then.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@2, Yikes &#8211; I&#8217;m not sure where this site is coming from. As a Catholic I&#8217;m quite prepared to say that Galileo could not prove his argument for the earth spinning and heliocentricism, that his run-in with the Church had far more to do with his insult of his sponsor the Pope and demand to change Scripture, and that scientific evidence for his argument only emerged with proofs offered by Foucault&#8217;s pendulum and stellar abberation/parallax &#8230; but c&#8217;mon now we know so much more than we did then.</p>
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		<title>By: chris y</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/03/who-thinks-the-sun-goes-around-the-earth/#comment-31687</link>
		<dc:creator>chris y</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Mar 2011 10:56:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=10590#comment-31687</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Either way, thing is for most people it’s completely irrelevant, so why should they waste brain time on it?&lt;/i&gt;

Sherlock Holmes notoriously didn&#039;t know the answer for precisely this reason. The obvious riposte is that wasting(!) brain time on stuff that&#039;s not immediately relevant is part of what makes us human.

Nevertheless I&#039;m much more concerned about the line in that table which suggests that nearly half of Americans, more than half of Europeans and the vast majority of Chinese think that antibiotics kill viruses. Way to make sure they don&#039;t kill anything!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Either way, thing is for most people it’s completely irrelevant, so why should they waste brain time on it?</i></p>
<p>Sherlock Holmes notoriously didn&#8217;t know the answer for precisely this reason. The obvious riposte is that wasting(!) brain time on stuff that&#8217;s not immediately relevant is part of what makes us human.</p>
<p>Nevertheless I&#8217;m much more concerned about the line in that table which suggests that nearly half of Americans, more than half of Europeans and the vast majority of Chinese think that antibiotics kill viruses. Way to make sure they don&#8217;t kill anything!</p>
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		<title>By: gcochran</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/03/who-thinks-the-sun-goes-around-the-earth/#comment-31686</link>
		<dc:creator>gcochran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Mar 2011 07:26:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=10590#comment-31686</guid>
		<description>The questions are indeed less than perfect. But that list was composed a long time ago, and has been administered for decades.  The thought it that you have to ask the same questions if you want to compare result over time.

    Since  the fraction of responders who know anything more than middle-school science is very small, the imprecise  questions simply do not matter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The questions are indeed less than perfect. But that list was composed a long time ago, and has been administered for decades.  The thought it that you have to ask the same questions if you want to compare result over time.</p>
<p>    Since  the fraction of responders who know anything more than middle-school science is very small, the imprecise  questions simply do not matter.</p>
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		<title>By: Razib Khan</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/03/who-thinks-the-sun-goes-around-the-earth/#comment-31685</link>
		<dc:creator>Razib Khan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Mar 2011 07:03:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=10590#comment-31685</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt; It would be much more enlightening to ask them something that actually matters for their life. E.g. heat conduction of metals, plastic and in vacuum.&lt;/i&gt;

for social science it is nice to have variance in responses :-) you&#039;re going to be awful close to ~ 0% accurate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i> It would be much more enlightening to ask them something that actually matters for their life. E.g. heat conduction of metals, plastic and in vacuum.</i></p>
<p>for social science it is nice to have variance in responses <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />  you&#8217;re going to be awful close to ~ 0% accurate.</p>
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		<title>By: Bee</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/03/who-thinks-the-sun-goes-around-the-earth/#comment-31684</link>
		<dc:creator>Bee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Mar 2011 06:56:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=10590#comment-31684</guid>
		<description>Leaving aside seven or eight other planets, don&#039;t sun and earth move around a common center-of-mass? Either way, thing is for most people it&#039;s completely irrelevant, so why should they waste brain time on it?  It would be much more enlightening to ask them something that actually matters for their life. E.g. heat conduction of metals, plastic and in vacuum.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Leaving aside seven or eight other planets, don&#8217;t sun and earth move around a common center-of-mass? Either way, thing is for most people it&#8217;s completely irrelevant, so why should they waste brain time on it?  It would be much more enlightening to ask them something that actually matters for their life. E.g. heat conduction of metals, plastic and in vacuum.</p>
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		<title>By: Rex the Wonder God</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/03/who-thinks-the-sun-goes-around-the-earth/#comment-31683</link>
		<dc:creator>Rex the Wonder God</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Mar 2011 06:50:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=10590#comment-31683</guid>
		<description>This is slightly off the main thrust, but the sixth question above shakes my confidence in the entire validity of the poll.

I would have thought the answer is quite defensibly False on one level, given we know the Big Bang had to have been preceded by some rendering of some singularity of forces; and the same on another level, given the lack of clarity as to whether the term universe refers what we on this planet and with the supplement of our satellites can SEE, in which case the answer would be ... well, STILL False given the first objection, but at least ARGUABLY True, or whether instead the term refers to all possible entities that might qualify as universes, in which case the answer again is quite defensibly False.

This is not the ONLY problematically worded question. See for example the imprecision in the use of the term VERY HOT in relation to the center of the planet; that would certainly be hotter than the median surface temperature on the planet, but not even hot at all relation to the Sun or planets in this solar system closer to it, or indeed any one of the beellions of beellions of other stars in this universe, and not even hotter than particular parts of the planet at and above the surface.

And its not as if these problems are rendered less significant by the number of responders, for no amount of crowd-sourcing can possibly improve an inherently flawed survey question. The curse of science is that almost nothing is a simple and straightforward as we would like or as it might seem, and to me this survey fails for forcing simplicity into areas that science does not allow to be so simplified.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is slightly off the main thrust, but the sixth question above shakes my confidence in the entire validity of the poll.</p>
<p>I would have thought the answer is quite defensibly False on one level, given we know the Big Bang had to have been preceded by some rendering of some singularity of forces; and the same on another level, given the lack of clarity as to whether the term universe refers what we on this planet and with the supplement of our satellites can SEE, in which case the answer would be &#8230; well, STILL False given the first objection, but at least ARGUABLY True, or whether instead the term refers to all possible entities that might qualify as universes, in which case the answer again is quite defensibly False.</p>
<p>This is not the ONLY problematically worded question. See for example the imprecision in the use of the term VERY HOT in relation to the center of the planet; that would certainly be hotter than the median surface temperature on the planet, but not even hot at all relation to the Sun or planets in this solar system closer to it, or indeed any one of the beellions of beellions of other stars in this universe, and not even hotter than particular parts of the planet at and above the surface.</p>
<p>And its not as if these problems are rendered less significant by the number of responders, for no amount of crowd-sourcing can possibly improve an inherently flawed survey question. The curse of science is that almost nothing is a simple and straightforward as we would like or as it might seem, and to me this survey fails for forcing simplicity into areas that science does not allow to be so simplified.</p>
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		<title>By: Anthony</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/03/who-thinks-the-sun-goes-around-the-earth/#comment-31682</link>
		<dc:creator>Anthony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Mar 2011 05:43:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=10590#comment-31682</guid>
		<description>It all depends on your frame of reference.  The frame in which the sun goes around the earth is much less convenient for calculating anything involving anything outside the earth-moon system, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It all depends on your frame of reference.  The frame in which the sun goes around the earth is much less convenient for calculating anything involving anything outside the earth-moon system, though.</p>
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