Comments on: Outbreeding won't save the British royal family

By: Pohranicni Straze

Pohranicni Straze — Sun, 01 May 2011 01:47:38 +0000

Re: Asian royalty, one notable exception would be the Thai monarchy, which prior to the current king was highly inbred. I would love to see an inbreeding coefficient calculated for Mahidol Adulyadej. He only had three grandparents, as his father (Rama V) and mother were children of Rama IV by different wives. Rama V’s father, Rama IV, was the great-uncle of Rama V’s mother (the two being, respectively, a son and a great-granddaughter of Rama II). Rama IV’s parents were 1st cousins (his paternal grandfather being Rama I and his maternal grandmother being Rama I’s sister). I would bet that Prince Mahidol’s inbreeding coefficient would rival that of the later Spanish Hapsburgs, which could partially explain why he died so young. Mahidol married a commoner, so the current king Rama IX is not too inbred. However, his wife is a 1st cousin once removed through Rama V (actually closer genetically, as she is a double descendant of Rama IV), so the future King Rama X will have a pretty large inbreeding coefficient himself.

By: Huxley

Huxley — Sat, 30 Apr 2011 13:00:52 +0000

Regarding the origin of hemophilia in the family, I’ve read that spontaneous mutation is responsible 30% of the time, and Victoria’s father was in his 50s when she was conceived. I think it is not really realistic that Conroy had hemophilia and made it to 67 as a soldier. Also, Victoria clearly looked like the rest of the Hanovers.

By: pconroy

pconroy — Sat, 30 Apr 2011 04:53:05 +0000

Jean,

But AFAIK, none of the Royals before Victoria showed any signs of the disease, so where did it come from.

Also bear in mind that Sir John Conroy was Irish, and many, many Irish – including my father (who may be related) and sister – carry the SNP for Haemochromatosis aka Iron Overload disease. Could it be that Sir John Conroy also carried this, and this allowed him to also be a Carrier of Haemophilia, without too much ill effect?! Remember that one of the treatments for Haemochromatosis was to regularly bleed the sufferer… something that Haemophiliacs do naturally…

What say you???

By: Jean

Jean — Fri, 29 Apr 2011 22:21:02 +0000

@Jean

And Victoria inherited the disease from her biological father Sir John Conroy

Not possible. As I said, a male carrying the mutation will have the disease. The idea that she was Conroy’s child is wishful thinking. Her eyes and face shape are so like those of Prince Edward, Duke of Kent that you scarcely need DNA.

By: The royal wedding and outbreeding | Gene Expression | Discover Magazine

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 21:14:42 +0000

[...] the wake of the post from earlier this week on the inbreeding within the House of Windsor (and current lack thereof), Luke Jostins, a subject [...]

By: Walter Sobchak

Walter Sobchak — Fri, 29 Apr 2011 19:29:05 +0000

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Philip,_Duke_of_Edinburgh:

“Elizabeth and Margaret, who were Philip’s third cousins through Queen Victoria, and second cousins once removed through King Christian IX of Denmark.”

Upon Accession, William would be the first King of England to have an English mother since Elizabeth I (as did her brother and predecessor Edward VI). The genetic diversity clearly helped William, as his father clearly has a very limited IQ.

William’s brother Harry raises an interesting question. Harry is rumored to have been the biological son of Diana’s lover (legally he is Charles’ son). And as noted above Victoria is rumored to have been the child of a similar misalliance.

Official records are of course heavily censored, but we can wonder how often were such things allowed or condoned for the purpose of promoting the health of the breed.

Asian royalty has less frequently faced the problem of inbreeding. Polygamy, harems, and the lack of primogeniture have meant that kings have been the children of harem girls who may have been the the daughters of barbarian chieftains, or even slaves, but, who, at any rate, did not share much genetically with their consorts.

Despite these features, dynasties in Asia, like those in Europe, have seldom lasted more than 3 or 4 centuries. The above mentioned Spanish Hapsburgs ran just under 200 years, which is more typical of successful dynasties.

By: pconroy

pconroy — Wed, 27 Apr 2011 22:42:19 +0000

@Jean, And Victoria inherited the disease from her biological father Sir John Conroy, who looked a little like Prince Charles, with his long narrow nose and large ears...

By: Jean

Jean — Wed, 27 Apr 2011 11:07:37 +0000

@ Courtney – If you revisit those charts, you will see that Queen Victoria was the carrier who brought haemophilia into the British and other royal families. Since the gene fault responsible is on the X chromosome, she was unaffected herself (having another X which was free of the mutation), but her son Leopold suffered from the disease, and two of her daughters were carriers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haemophilia_in_European_royalty

Since her eldest son Edward did not suffer from the disease, it is clear that he did not inherit the mutation. Males not having another X, if they have the mutation, they manifest the illness. The current British royal family is descended from Edward. So they neither have nor carry the mutation.

By: Courtney

Courtney — Wed, 27 Apr 2011 04:52:11 +0000

When I was studying genetics, the textbook had several pedigrees of various well-known families and their various genetic disorders. According to one of those pedigrees, the entire royal family either has or carries hemophilia. I would not say that this necessarily puts them in genetic danger, since the condition is not exactly a death sentence, but it is a good reason to add some genetic diversity.

By: David

David — Tue, 26 Apr 2011 21:09:20 +0000

Thanks for providing the links to those articles, and your own paper on the Habsburg’s of Spain. Very interesting, even for a layman.
After spending several years researching genealogies, I think a lot of people, (especially some who don’t consider themselves as…. “common”) would be a little surprised to learn that some of their own ancestors going back to as little as 100 to 150 years ago married a cousin or two.

By: Ben

Ben — Tue, 26 Apr 2011 21:03:11 +0000

Thanks for the response. That helps!

By: Razib Khan

Razib Khan — Tue, 26 Apr 2011 20:48:22 +0000

#8, yes, he is.

By: Ian

Ian — Tue, 26 Apr 2011 20:35:01 +0000

Between his mother and his great-grandmother (the Queen Mother) William is probably the least German heir to the throne since Stuart times.

@ #1, the ears explained (also some important information about the origins of the Royal family), courtesy “Goodness Gracious Me”: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXAu6QSMyj0

By: Razib Khan

Razib Khan — Tue, 26 Apr 2011 20:29:58 +0000

ben , basically once your are no longer inbred, it makes little sense to say you are getting less inbred in a practical sense. by analogy. assume that you score a 50 out of 100 on a test. you take 1 pill to make you smarter, and you score 95 out of 100. if someone tells you taking 2 pills will make you even smarter, you’ll be able to go no higher than 5 units to 100. there’s only so high you can score. william & harry are pretty outbred now. since william is not closely related to kate, there kids aren’t going to be that much more outbred.

By: Ben

Ben — Tue, 26 Apr 2011 20:25:12 +0000

Could you please explain this a little more for the slow folk in your audience? Basically, everything between the words “coefficient” and “conventionally” didn’t make sense to me.

By: The Scruff Presents Royal Wedding ’11 THE RECKONING: part 4; At Least They’ll Have Non-Inbred Kids? « The Scruff.

Tue, 26 Apr 2011 20:24:53 +0000

[...] the Royal Bloodline can be saved! From, ya know, webbed feet babies and shit. There’s more here. This guy doubts this, and cites “science” or whatever, but who needs that right? [...]

By: Naughtius Maximus

Naughtius Maximus — Tue, 26 Apr 2011 19:24:54 +0000

Charles must be delighted about his only son getting married!

By: Razib Khan

Razib Khan — Tue, 26 Apr 2011 18:14:25 +0000

#2, did you just leave an obscene comment?

By: elle

elle — Tue, 26 Apr 2011 18:13:26 +0000

Kate Middleton was found to be distantly relates to Big Willie anywho

By: Jumblepudding

Jumblepudding — Tue, 26 Apr 2011 15:18:57 +0000

Are the royals really in any genetic danger right now? (aside from the pronounced ears?)