Comments on: Band of brothers at war

By: Jessica Pellien

Jessica Pellien — Thu, 16 Jun 2011 17:53:54 +0000

Would be happy to supply a review copy for you of Pat Churchland’s new book, Razib. Can you email me your mailing address? jessica_pellien@press.princeton.edu.

Best,
Jessica
Publicist @ Princeton University Press

By: Gav

Gav — Wed, 15 Jun 2011 13:50:27 +0000

Interesting contrast with the Celtic cattle raiders you mentioned in passing. Here you had a strongly hierarchic society with raids (lluydd on this side of the Irish sea, usually translated as hostings) undertaken mainly by war bands (teulu) of high status males (uchelwyr). The contemporary literature, which may not be reliable, suggests that main reward for taking part was renown -”hwy clod na golud” and all that. Although the prospect of cows and other plunder could no doubt be a bonus this probably evened out in the longer term. Free-riders appear to have been punished by shame. (Diogenes mentions guilt. I’m not sure there’s any evidence of that in the literature.)

Organised cattle raiding (as opposed to simple theft, which still goes on) persisted in parts of Britain probably until the early seventeenth century.

By: chris y

chris y — Wed, 15 Jun 2011 09:26:49 +0000

Despite Dawkins’ atheism and anti-Christianity I have wondered on occasion if he didn’t have some similarities to a particular sort of reactionary Roman Catholic who took St. Augustine’s theories of original sin too much to heart.

I would have bet a substantial sum that Dawkins was a lapsed Catholic, but apparently he was raised as an Anglican, who tend to be pretty Augustine-lite.

By: Robert Hagedorn

Robert Hagedorn — Wed, 15 Jun 2011 00:29:25 +0000

Adam and Eve, Saint Augustine, and original sin? Do a search: First Scandal.

By: Diogenes

Diogenes — Wed, 15 Jun 2011 00:06:01 +0000

Beliefs, Symbols may be more immediate mechanisms.
Even freeloaders reconstruct their cheating as some form retribution. Otherwise they “can’t live with themselves”. Guilt is the other side of “Faith”. Appropriate punishment is often received with relief by the cheater. How irrational is that?
There’s also the self-destructive behaviour (“Apoptosis”-like) of the self-accusing-unpunished guilt-laden or the belief-deprived; and some individuals propensity for idiosyncratic beliefs, becoming misadapted.

Think we may have evolved already, as a species, well beyond purely rational cooperating independent agents.
That’s maybe why we can’t expect reasonable behaviour from ourselves despite how much we try.
Just aren’t making too many calls at that level anymore.
Despite people’s beliefs about themselves.

By: omar

omar — Tue, 14 Jun 2011 20:34:46 +0000

“i don’t review books i haven’t read”

How White of you!

(I just wanted to use that interesting phrase, no deeper meaning is intended). Nice post.

By: Razib Khan

Razib Khan — Tue, 14 Jun 2011 19:44:59 +0000

Could you provide a similar analysis of her book and how it relates to the game theoretic analyses

i don’t review books i haven’t read

By: rick

rick — Tue, 14 Jun 2011 19:18:18 +0000

I’m not sure the way to read any of these studies is to be looking for one set of observations to repudiate looking at dynamics from one particular level of granularity or another. Depending on the process at hand, I think there will invariably be some levels of dynamics which are more useful than others.

Even if, for instance, social status is converted directly into biological currency, this might validate individualistic dynamics, but it certainly doesn’t mean that a different higher-unit of selection couldn’t be a useful encapsulation of the individualistic machinery.

Your observation that one dynamic to explain all is hopefully just common sense in etho-evolution: I can’t imagine that it’s actually contentious, is it?

By: AG

AG — Tue, 14 Jun 2011 14:46:43 +0000

By rewarding family of soldier who sacrificed his life, the genes of altruism gain edge over gene of selfishness when poverty is major life limiting factor in survival. Chin law (from terracotta soldiers kingdom) had very detailed rewarding system to promote bravery and punish desertion.

By: bob sykes

bob sykes — Tue, 14 Jun 2011 11:42:58 +0000

Very nice.

There is a related blog over at gnxp reviewing “Braintrust. What Neuroscience Tells Us about Morality”, by Patricia S. Churchland. Could you provide a similar analysis of her book and how it relates to the game theoretic analyses?