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	<title>Comments on: Bacteria tell the tale of human intercourse</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/07/bacteria-tell-the-tale-of-human-intercourse/</link>
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		<title>By: pconroy</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/07/bacteria-tell-the-tale-of-human-intercourse/#comment-34888</link>
		<dc:creator>pconroy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jul 2011 20:09:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=12978#comment-34888</guid>
		<description>@Trajan23,

I know your comment is tangential, but I have a copy of Jesephus&#039;s writing, and he lived in the time of the supposed Jesus, but nary a mention of him - so I suspect he didn&#039;t exist. AFAIK the only messianic type figure that did exist in the era was St John the Baptist, who was an Essene.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Trajan23,</p>
<p>I know your comment is tangential, but I have a copy of Jesephus&#8217;s writing, and he lived in the time of the supposed Jesus, but nary a mention of him &#8211; so I suspect he didn&#8217;t exist. AFAIK the only messianic type figure that did exist in the era was St John the Baptist, who was an Essene.</p>
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		<title>By: pconroy</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/07/bacteria-tell-the-tale-of-human-intercourse/#comment-34887</link>
		<dc:creator>pconroy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jul 2011 20:06:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=12978#comment-34887</guid>
		<description>@Leviticus,

Totally agree!

I suffer from GERD, which is caused by H. Pylori - as do many in my immediate family. Autistic traits are also common in my family, both my mother and brother probably have undiagnosed Asperger&#039;s Syndrome, while I have probably a mild form of it, and recently my 2.5 yo son was diagnosed with ASD and PDD-NOS.

Any connection would certainly be of interest, and also any differences in Autistic symptoms in areas with different native H. Pylori strains are prevalent.

I suspect that just as  the last 2 years have been huge for the human genome, the coming years will be huge for the genomes of human microbial flora, gut or otherwise, and their symbiotic relationship and co-evolution with humans!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Leviticus,</p>
<p>Totally agree!</p>
<p>I suffer from GERD, which is caused by H. Pylori &#8211; as do many in my immediate family. Autistic traits are also common in my family, both my mother and brother probably have undiagnosed Asperger&#8217;s Syndrome, while I have probably a mild form of it, and recently my 2.5 yo son was diagnosed with ASD and PDD-NOS.</p>
<p>Any connection would certainly be of interest, and also any differences in Autistic symptoms in areas with different native H. Pylori strains are prevalent.</p>
<p>I suspect that just as  the last 2 years have been huge for the human genome, the coming years will be huge for the genomes of human microbial flora, gut or otherwise, and their symbiotic relationship and co-evolution with humans!</p>
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		<title>By: leviticus</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/07/bacteria-tell-the-tale-of-human-intercourse/#comment-34886</link>
		<dc:creator>leviticus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jul 2011 02:19:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=12978#comment-34886</guid>
		<description>As Razib states at the end, this is a field of research with very real medical benefits. For a specific example, gut flora has been a topic of some interest in the Autism interest community going back at least 2 years. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As Razib states at the end, this is a field of research with very real medical benefits. For a specific example, gut flora has been a topic of some interest in the Autism interest community going back at least 2 years. </p>
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		<title>By: TGGP</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/07/bacteria-tell-the-tale-of-human-intercourse/#comment-34885</link>
		<dc:creator>TGGP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jul 2011 00:17:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=12978#comment-34885</guid>
		<description>This is off-topic, but since you&#039;ve followed the story earlier you might be interested in &lt;a href=&quot;http://news.sciencemag.org/scienceinsider/2011/07/neuroscientist-marc-hauser-resig.html?rss=1&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Marc Hauser&#039;s resignation&lt;/a&gt;.

trajan23, I&#039;ve found &lt;a href=&quot;http://jesuspolice.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;the Jesus police&lt;/a&gt; to be an interesting site.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is off-topic, but since you&#8217;ve followed the story earlier you might be interested in <a href="http://news.sciencemag.org/scienceinsider/2011/07/neuroscientist-marc-hauser-resig.html?rss=1" rel="nofollow">Marc Hauser&#8217;s resignation</a>.</p>
<p>trajan23, I&#8217;ve found <a href="http://jesuspolice.com/" rel="nofollow">the Jesus police</a> to be an interesting site.</p>
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		<title>By: Razib Khan</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/07/bacteria-tell-the-tale-of-human-intercourse/#comment-34884</link>
		<dc:creator>Razib Khan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jul 2011 21:55:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=12978#comment-34884</guid>
		<description>#9, natural selection.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#9, natural selection.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Ó Duḃṫaiġ</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/07/bacteria-tell-the-tale-of-human-intercourse/#comment-34883</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Ó Duḃṫaiġ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jul 2011 21:24:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=12978#comment-34883</guid>
		<description>The earliest surviving text from the Philippines is the &quot;Laguna Copperplate Inscription&quot; which shows a fair number of Sanskrit loanwords and is dated to about 900AD. So I&#039;m not surprised that a Bengali strain shows up there along with the Spanish ones. It is strange though that no east-asian strains showed up especially as there have been plenty of inward migration from China over the last 300 years as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The earliest surviving text from the Philippines is the &#8220;Laguna Copperplate Inscription&#8221; which shows a fair number of Sanskrit loanwords and is dated to about 900AD. So I&#8217;m not surprised that a Bengali strain shows up there along with the Spanish ones. It is strange though that no east-asian strains showed up especially as there have been plenty of inward migration from China over the last 300 years as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Razib Khan</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/07/bacteria-tell-the-tale-of-human-intercourse/#comment-34882</link>
		<dc:creator>Razib Khan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jul 2011 18:56:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=12978#comment-34882</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt; I was wondering if you would be willing to suggest some appropriate books suitable for the layman?&lt;/i&gt;

hm. it&#039;s been so long. what&#039;s your intent? there are so many books. contact me via email, twitter or FB for follow ups</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i> I was wondering if you would be willing to suggest some appropriate books suitable for the layman?</i></p>
<p>hm. it&#8217;s been so long. what&#8217;s your intent? there are so many books. contact me via email, twitter or FB for follow ups</p>
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		<title>By: Razib Khan</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/07/bacteria-tell-the-tale-of-human-intercourse/#comment-34881</link>
		<dc:creator>Razib Khan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jul 2011 18:54:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=12978#comment-34881</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;How much of today’s South Vietnamese are descended from Cham who adopted Vietnamese culture and language? Or indeed, was the earlier Cham settlement of South Vietnam primarily a genetic or cultural takeover?&lt;/i&gt;

these would be easy questions to answer if we had the data. the 1000 genomes  is collecting samples from ho chi minh city right now. if there&#039;s substructure, we should see it there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>How much of today’s South Vietnamese are descended from Cham who adopted Vietnamese culture and language? Or indeed, was the earlier Cham settlement of South Vietnam primarily a genetic or cultural takeover?</i></p>
<p>these would be easy questions to answer if we had the data. the 1000 genomes  is collecting samples from ho chi minh city right now. if there&#8217;s substructure, we should see it there.</p>
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		<title>By: trajan23</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/07/bacteria-tell-the-tale-of-human-intercourse/#comment-34880</link>
		<dc:creator>trajan23</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jul 2011 18:54:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=12978#comment-34880</guid>
		<description>This is way off topic, Razib, but Half Sigma has gone on a weird tangent where he is denying the historicity of Jesus.  Half Sigma has basically admitted that he knows practically nothing about either Second Temple Judaism or modern scholarship on Jesus (He seems to be deriving most of his arguments from R.G. Price), and I was wondering if you would be willing to suggest some appropriate books suitable for the layman?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is way off topic, Razib, but Half Sigma has gone on a weird tangent where he is denying the historicity of Jesus.  Half Sigma has basically admitted that he knows practically nothing about either Second Temple Judaism or modern scholarship on Jesus (He seems to be deriving most of his arguments from R.G. Price), and I was wondering if you would be willing to suggest some appropriate books suitable for the layman?</p>
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		<title>By: Razib Khan</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/07/bacteria-tell-the-tale-of-human-intercourse/#comment-34879</link>
		<dc:creator>Razib Khan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jul 2011 18:52:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=12978#comment-34879</guid>
		<description>intercourse doesn&#039;t mean just sex dude:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/intercourse

the early cultural influences seem to have been south indian specifically (in regards to the techniques of sculpture and the sects of hinduism or buddhism). and the only indian military power which had  any impact on southeast asia were the chola of the tamil country.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>intercourse doesn&#8217;t mean just sex dude:</p>
<p><a href="http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/intercourse" rel="nofollow">http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/intercourse</a></p>
<p>the early cultural influences seem to have been south indian specifically (in regards to the techniques of sculpture and the sects of hinduism or buddhism). and the only indian military power which had  any impact on southeast asia were the chola of the tamil country.</p>
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		<title>By: Maju</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/07/bacteria-tell-the-tale-of-human-intercourse/#comment-34878</link>
		<dc:creator>Maju</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jul 2011 18:46:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=12978#comment-34878</guid>
		<description>I must say that on first read I am skeptic as to how fig. 4, specially as labeled here relates to the other graphs. Let us remember that H. pylori is not any regular beneficial gut bacteria but an infectious one. Only 20% or infected people show symptoms (which can be very nasty) but it is still a rather hostile bacterium.

Also, according to Wikipedia, &quot;at least half of world population is infected&quot;, what means that maybe as many as 50% of us may not carry it at all. This is a path that I&#039;d like to explore in the case of relatively isolated Philippines, which does not have &quot;Austronesian&quot; variants but a Basque and a Bengali one. If Filipino people had lost (or never had) the bacterium to begin with (maybe a dietary habit or just founder effect), that would avoid the need for high competitiveness that you claim for the European strain because it&#039;s really odd that there is no East Asian strains in Philippines, only Indian (Bengali?) and European (Basque) ones.

You label one of the putative flows from India as &quot;Dravidian migration&quot;, however this is at least unproven and you have been mislead by the capriciousness of arrow-drawing by the authors. In fig. 3 it becomes apparent that the &#039;Asia2&#039; haplogroup that (arguably) migrated to SE Asia from India is the Bengali one. There is no mention of Tamils at all.

On the other hand, the &#039;European&#039; haplogroup in SE Asia (but Philippines) corresponds with Andrah Pradesh. These can be assimilated to Tamils very hypothetically but there was never any Tamil migration to Cambodia and Thailand, right? I&#039;d say that this is more like the Hindu influence of some 2000 years ago instead, which may have arrived via Malaysia/Indonesia.

Back to &#039;Asia2&#039;, the more I look at it the less clear I have it migrated from South Asia to East Asia. At least the Bengali and Malaysia-Indian strains seem to be derived within a wholly SE Asian subtree. It is not impossible that at least that strain of the &#039;Asia2&#039; haplogroup coalesced in SE Asia and (back-?) migrated to Bengal from there.

Whatever the case it is not the story of human intercourse as you say in the title but more the one of human shared meals, most of which were never that intimate, and maybe of shared latrines.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I must say that on first read I am skeptic as to how fig. 4, specially as labeled here relates to the other graphs. Let us remember that H. pylori is not any regular beneficial gut bacteria but an infectious one. Only 20% or infected people show symptoms (which can be very nasty) but it is still a rather hostile bacterium.</p>
<p>Also, according to Wikipedia, &#8220;at least half of world population is infected&#8221;, what means that maybe as many as 50% of us may not carry it at all. This is a path that I&#8217;d like to explore in the case of relatively isolated Philippines, which does not have &#8220;Austronesian&#8221; variants but a Basque and a Bengali one. If Filipino people had lost (or never had) the bacterium to begin with (maybe a dietary habit or just founder effect), that would avoid the need for high competitiveness that you claim for the European strain because it&#8217;s really odd that there is no East Asian strains in Philippines, only Indian (Bengali?) and European (Basque) ones.</p>
<p>You label one of the putative flows from India as &#8220;Dravidian migration&#8221;, however this is at least unproven and you have been mislead by the capriciousness of arrow-drawing by the authors. In fig. 3 it becomes apparent that the &#8216;Asia2&#8242; haplogroup that (arguably) migrated to SE Asia from India is the Bengali one. There is no mention of Tamils at all.</p>
<p>On the other hand, the &#8216;European&#8217; haplogroup in SE Asia (but Philippines) corresponds with Andrah Pradesh. These can be assimilated to Tamils very hypothetically but there was never any Tamil migration to Cambodia and Thailand, right? I&#8217;d say that this is more like the Hindu influence of some 2000 years ago instead, which may have arrived via Malaysia/Indonesia.</p>
<p>Back to &#8216;Asia2&#8242;, the more I look at it the less clear I have it migrated from South Asia to East Asia. At least the Bengali and Malaysia-Indian strains seem to be derived within a wholly SE Asian subtree. It is not impossible that at least that strain of the &#8216;Asia2&#8242; haplogroup coalesced in SE Asia and (back-?) migrated to Bengal from there.</p>
<p>Whatever the case it is not the story of human intercourse as you say in the title but more the one of human shared meals, most of which were never that intimate, and maybe of shared latrines.</p>
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		<title>By: magetoo</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/07/bacteria-tell-the-tale-of-human-intercourse/#comment-34877</link>
		<dc:creator>magetoo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jul 2011 15:35:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=12978#comment-34877</guid>
		<description>Wow.  I usually read these posts pretty lightly, but this was fascinating.  (That could be because Guns, Germs and Steel is fresh in memory, of course.)  Things I didn&#039;t know that I didn&#039;t know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow.  I usually read these posts pretty lightly, but this was fascinating.  (That could be because Guns, Germs and Steel is fresh in memory, of course.)  Things I didn&#8217;t know that I didn&#8217;t know.</p>
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		<title>By: Eurasian Sensation</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/07/bacteria-tell-the-tale-of-human-intercourse/#comment-34876</link>
		<dc:creator>Eurasian Sensation</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jul 2011 13:23:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=12978#comment-34876</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;But for most of the past ~2,000 years what we know as Vietnam was divided between the Kinh in the north, and the Khmers and later Austronesian Chams in the center and south.&lt;/i&gt;

I&#039;d be interested to know how much of the Kinh&#039;s displacement of the Chams was cultural and how much of it was genetic. How much of today&#039;s South Vietnamese are descended from Cham who adopted Vietnamese culture and language? Or indeed, was the earlier Cham settlement of South Vietnam primarily a genetic or cultural takeover?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>But for most of the past ~2,000 years what we know as Vietnam was divided between the Kinh in the north, and the Khmers and later Austronesian Chams in the center and south.</i></p>
<p>I&#8217;d be interested to know how much of the Kinh&#8217;s displacement of the Chams was cultural and how much of it was genetic. How much of today&#8217;s South Vietnamese are descended from Cham who adopted Vietnamese culture and language? Or indeed, was the earlier Cham settlement of South Vietnam primarily a genetic or cultural takeover?</p>
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		<title>By: Charles Nydorf</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/07/bacteria-tell-the-tale-of-human-intercourse/#comment-34875</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles Nydorf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jul 2011 12:41:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=12978#comment-34875</guid>
		<description>&quot;Let&#039;s tack for a moment to some history without microbial goodness.&quot; Its sentences like this that keep me reading this blog.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Let&#8217;s tack for a moment to some history without microbial goodness.&#8221; Its sentences like this that keep me reading this blog.</p>
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