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	<title>Comments on: On the genetic structure of Afro-Indians</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/07/on-the-genetic-structure-of-afro-indians/</link>
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		<title>By: TGGP</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/07/on-the-genetic-structure-of-afro-indians/#comment-34536</link>
		<dc:creator>TGGP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Jul 2011 18:52:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=12759#comment-34536</guid>
		<description>I recall reading from Thomas Sowell about the large Ottoman slave trade, and the distinction between productive agricultural chattel and elite consumption. He pointed out that the practice of castrating slaves (it was predominately males who were brought east from Africa) is the reason there is not a population there analogous to New World descendants of slaves. Perhaps Indian Muslims followed different practices, but as you mentioned the Siddhi population is still pretty small.

On the other hand, the self-fulfilling one-drop rule in America may have resulted in a large distinct black population in the U.S and their virtual disappearance in Mexico. But on the third hand, Brazil also has a latin-type continuous &quot;color bar&quot; and a large distinct black population in the northeast.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I recall reading from Thomas Sowell about the large Ottoman slave trade, and the distinction between productive agricultural chattel and elite consumption. He pointed out that the practice of castrating slaves (it was predominately males who were brought east from Africa) is the reason there is not a population there analogous to New World descendants of slaves. Perhaps Indian Muslims followed different practices, but as you mentioned the Siddhi population is still pretty small.</p>
<p>On the other hand, the self-fulfilling one-drop rule in America may have resulted in a large distinct black population in the U.S and their virtual disappearance in Mexico. But on the third hand, Brazil also has a latin-type continuous &#8220;color bar&#8221; and a large distinct black population in the northeast.</p>
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		<title>By: Vitasta</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/07/on-the-genetic-structure-of-afro-indians/#comment-34535</link>
		<dc:creator>Vitasta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Jul 2011 00:16:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=12759#comment-34535</guid>
		<description>There is a more recent historical footnote to the Portuguese/West African legacy in India that relates to the appearance of HIV-2 in southwestern India:

&quot;Outside West Africa, sporadic reports of HIV-2 infection have been previously made in Portugal, Mozambique, Angola, &lt;i&gt;southwestern India,&lt;/i&gt; and Brazil; these events are all related to the former ties Portugal had with West Africa.[21] Portugal itself appears to have low but stable rates of HIV‑2 prevalence in the population.[14] The other countries once shared common historical-political ties, with some economic trade relationships existing even today. As noted, HIV‑2 has been detected in some large cities in southwestern India, [22,23] perhaps because of exchange with the former Portuguese colonies of Africa. Goa, a former Portuguese colony, situated south of Bombay on the western coast, has reported 4.9% HIV-2 and 9.8% HIV-1 infection rates in patients with sexually transmitted infections (STIs).[22] To date, significant HIV-2 infection has &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; been reported in other parts of Asia. [My emphasis]&quot;

&lt;a href=&quot;http://ftguonline.org/ftgu-232/index.php/ftgu/article/view/1969/3934&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Biology and Variation in HIV-2 and HIV-1&lt;/a&gt; Kanki, PJ., et al.

See also, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=8167434&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;High proportion of HIV-2 and HIV-1/2 double-reactive sera in two Indian states, Maharashtra and Goa: first appearance of an HIV-2 epidemic along with an HIV-1 epidemic outside of Africa.&lt;/a&gt;
Rübsamen-Waigmann H., et al.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is a more recent historical footnote to the Portuguese/West African legacy in India that relates to the appearance of HIV-2 in southwestern India:</p>
<p>&#8220;Outside West Africa, sporadic reports of HIV-2 infection have been previously made in Portugal, Mozambique, Angola, <i>southwestern India,</i> and Brazil; these events are all related to the former ties Portugal had with West Africa.[21] Portugal itself appears to have low but stable rates of HIV‑2 prevalence in the population.[14] The other countries once shared common historical-political ties, with some economic trade relationships existing even today. As noted, HIV‑2 has been detected in some large cities in southwestern India, [22,23] perhaps because of exchange with the former Portuguese colonies of Africa. Goa, a former Portuguese colony, situated south of Bombay on the western coast, has reported 4.9% HIV-2 and 9.8% HIV-1 infection rates in patients with sexually transmitted infections (STIs).[22] To date, significant HIV-2 infection has <i>not</i> been reported in other parts of Asia. [My emphasis]&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://ftguonline.org/ftgu-232/index.php/ftgu/article/view/1969/3934" rel="nofollow">Biology and Variation in HIV-2 and HIV-1</a> Kanki, PJ., et al.</p>
<p>See also, <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=8167434" rel="nofollow">High proportion of HIV-2 and HIV-1/2 double-reactive sera in two Indian states, Maharashtra and Goa: first appearance of an HIV-2 epidemic along with an HIV-1 epidemic outside of Africa.</a><br />
Rübsamen-Waigmann H., et al.</p>
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		<title>By: mpc</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/07/on-the-genetic-structure-of-afro-indians/#comment-34534</link>
		<dc:creator>mpc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jul 2011 22:50:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=12759#comment-34534</guid>
		<description>^^ agreed.  the article posted states, &quot;Even though many Africans were taken to India in a condition of servitude, it is important not to underestimate their historical role as seafarers and traders in the Indian Ocean.&quot;  it also contends that, &quot;The presence of a previous African population in these regions [of northwest India beyond Portuguese control or colonization] calls for constraint in taking modern Siddhi demographics as indicators of the number of slaves imported during the Portuguese period.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>^^ agreed.  the article posted states, &#8220;Even though many Africans were taken to India in a condition of servitude, it is important not to underestimate their historical role as seafarers and traders in the Indian Ocean.&#8221;  it also contends that, &#8220;The presence of a previous African population in these regions [of northwest India beyond Portuguese control or colonization] calls for constraint in taking modern Siddhi demographics as indicators of the number of slaves imported during the Portuguese period.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: John Emerson</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/07/on-the-genetic-structure-of-afro-indians/#comment-34533</link>
		<dc:creator>John Emerson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jul 2011 16:37:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=12759#comment-34533</guid>
		<description>I have seen historical (not genetic) speculation that there might have been a very ancient (pre Greek, before 500 BC)  regular  sea trade between the Horn Of Africa (Yemen and Oman, but also Ethiopia, Somalia, and Eritrea). The monsoons are favorable to an easy passage both directions.  I have always wondered whether this might have led to genetic admixtures.

This is not relevant to the data in this particular post. I&#039;m just parking this suggestion here as something to think about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have seen historical (not genetic) speculation that there might have been a very ancient (pre Greek, before 500 BC)  regular  sea trade between the Horn Of Africa (Yemen and Oman, but also Ethiopia, Somalia, and Eritrea). The monsoons are favorable to an easy passage both directions.  I have always wondered whether this might have led to genetic admixtures.</p>
<p>This is not relevant to the data in this particular post. I&#8217;m just parking this suggestion here as something to think about.</p>
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		<title>By: mpc</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/07/on-the-genetic-structure-of-afro-indians/#comment-34532</link>
		<dc:creator>mpc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jul 2011 15:39:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=12759#comment-34532</guid>
		<description>this article suggests that history and the range and dating of possible admixture might be a little out of sync:  http://www.umac.mo/fsh/ciela/resources/publication/Cardoso2010.pdf.  the paper trail seems more revealing than the genetic trail, which makes me wonder about sampling and methodology.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>this article suggests that history and the range and dating of possible admixture might be a little out of sync:  <a href="http://www.umac.mo/fsh/ciela/resources/publication/Cardoso2010.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.umac.mo/fsh/ciela/resources/publication/Cardoso2010.pdf</a>.  the paper trail seems more revealing than the genetic trail, which makes me wonder about sampling and methodology.</p>
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		<title>By: Dienekes</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/07/on-the-genetic-structure-of-afro-indians/#comment-34531</link>
		<dc:creator>Dienekes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jul 2011 13:45:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=12759#comment-34531</guid>
		<description>ROLLOFF, the method used to infer dates of admixture gives about half the age of two other methods

http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2011/04/comparing-five-methods-of-admixture.html

I wouldn&#039;t bet the farm on ROLLOFF being correct, and certainly it&#039;s a major flaw in the paper that introduced it that its discrepancy with HAPMIX (by the same group) is never explained.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ROLLOFF, the method used to infer dates of admixture gives about half the age of two other methods</p>
<p><a href="http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2011/04/comparing-five-methods-of-admixture.html" rel="nofollow">http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2011/04/comparing-five-methods-of-admixture.html</a></p>
<p>I wouldn&#8217;t bet the farm on ROLLOFF being correct, and certainly it&#8217;s a major flaw in the paper that introduced it that its discrepancy with HAPMIX (by the same group) is never explained.</p>
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		<title>By: Razib Khan</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/07/on-the-genetic-structure-of-afro-indians/#comment-34530</link>
		<dc:creator>Razib Khan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jul 2011 02:21:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=12759#comment-34530</guid>
		<description>carib privilege!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>carib privilege!</p>
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		<title>By: Ian</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/07/on-the-genetic-structure-of-afro-indians/#comment-34529</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jul 2011 02:19:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I was a little puzzled by the second graph...until I realised that &quot;West Indian&quot; meant people from the west of India, not the West Indies. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was a little puzzled by the second graph&#8230;until I realised that &#8220;West Indian&#8221; meant people from the west of India, not the West Indies. <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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