Even for us white suburbanites, getting to the point where we can start training in grappling requires overcoming certain mental blocks. I haven’t done grappling in awhile, but during my first BJJ class, it was difficult to force myself to do the initial lessons. For those who don’t know, one of the first positions you learn is called “the guard” — it’s bottom position where you lightly lock your legs around your opponents torso while attempting a submission (like a triangle choke or kimura). I was mortified and slightly sick to my stomach when I first tried it out. It probably took three classes for it to cease feeling gay. Once you start sparring, the combative nature of the activity kicks in, and you’re thinking far more about submitting your opponent and avoiding being submitted yourself than you are about the close proximity of your crotches.

As an aside, I notice that macho frat boy types these days tend to engage in a lot of intentionally gay-seeming physical contact for the purpose of irritating each other. Nipple-twisting, dick-tapping, ass-grabbing, throwing objects at each other’s crotches — etc. The latter is a common practical joke in all of the Jackass flicks. I’m also reminded of the movie “Waiting”, where the ongoing joke at a restaurant would be to flash your junk at your coworkers — if they fail to look away in time, you get to kick them in the ass twice and call them a fag for looking at your package.

Frat boys and jocks seem to be more comfortable in an environment that involves a lot of back-slapping and rib-nudging, which straight guys from other backgrounds regard as pretty gay. My IT dept once brought in a guy with a background in the mortgage industry to do temporary work for us, and he would would do stupid shit like leaning in toward you and putting his hand on your shoulder while laughing at a joke (typically his own) or slapping you on the back as a greeting. We all thought he was a douchebag for not keeping his hands to himself, not to mention that fact he was pretty clueless to realize that touching your superiors is a no-no. Although IT guys recognize such behavior as characteristic of douchey sales people, if somebody from within the IT occupational culture behaved the same way, it would just seem extremely gay.

For the other gender, when my wife, from the Balkans, greets others from her country, would kiss the men on the cheek and the women on the lips, until I told her that didn’t look right here in the U.S. Girls holding hands as they walk along is common there. I remember that here also when I was growing up, but don’t see it anymore, but being physically close is still not an issue for girls.

Pelton seemed to think they would never has been as successful as they were had they not use their influence to stop this practice. One has to wonder if the US didn’t cause it to resume.

@25, EcoPhysioMichelle
“Yeah, if someone uses my name in conversation (and they aren’t trying to sell me something), my brain immediately goes into “is this person hitting on me?” mode.”

Interesting that you say that, Michelle. You see, Michelle, when a girl is talking to me and says my name multiple times in the midst of a conversation, I assume she’s interested. Michelle, even better is when the mentioning of my name is preceded or or followed by a pregnant pause. I’m glad I wasn’t the only one to notice this pattern, Michelle.

I re-iterate, this closeness only occurred when we were too young. Things changed when we grew up and developed independent personalities. The coziness between adult Arab men is definitely unusual. This cannot be applied to the Iranian culture. Of course, kissing is practiced in many cultures as a greeting though.

See this link: http://www.viewpointonline.net/the-language-of-love.html

Comment #3 on that article discusses some of the background to the fact that the beloved in Persian and Urdu poetry is always a boy.

An interesting twist on that is that classical Punjabi poets took to referring to themselves in the feminine gender. Supposedly this was meant to convey helpless infatuation in the face of God (the supposed male beloved, in this case surely top rather than bottom), or (if progressive critics are to be believed) it represents an early form of feminism and a desire to identify with the weakest section of society i.e. women.

Interesting observations on your Greek friend. My wife spent most of her summers growing up with her grandmother, who is Sicilian – who are culturally closer to Greeks in many ways – and she too has the habit of inserting first names into sentences, in mid conversation – which I find endearing.

Had one friend who was American, but raised in Greece. Much more touchy feely than the typical American male. This made him very charismatic because he was constantly touching people when talking to them. Not in a gay way, but in a very familiar way. For the avg suburban white guy this caused an odd disconnect that made them like him more. The only male who would put his arm around me like that would be my father or brother or best friend. Yet here’s this casual friend doing it so … he must be a great guy and a really, really good friend. Guy was very charismatic — also a huge womanizer.

I remember watching a Congressional vote on C-Span once and was struck at the similar behavior. All the politicians were just milling about, but they were all touching each other — hand on shoulder, elbow, back. That’s what my Greek-raised friend was like. Another thing he did that most Americans don’t, is he constantly called people by their name, just in the middle of the conversation. It has an odd effect. When I talk to my male friends I rarely use their name, and they rarely use mine. In fact, I mainly hear my name when talking to my girlfriend.

What is wrong with being Michellesque?! Also I am assuming that you’re referring to tops and bottoms with your active and passive nonsense. Don’t beat around the bush.

Right, in Kensington, these young Muslim men have some kind of religious/social club, and on hot days – like most of July – they will sit outside the club, as they seem not to have an AC, on a few benches and chairs. Frequently one or more guys will have another guy sitting on his lap and laying back against him. The other guys are packed tightly on the benches, arms over the back, all touching each other – as if it’s the most normal way to be.

I worked with this colleague (heterosexual, 23 yo male) about 10 years ago, and he used go to a deli everyday to get a sandwich, and got friendly with the sandwich guy (SG), who was from the Middle East. While waiting for his sandwich he was talking about going for drinks after work. SG overheard and showed up later on. He immediately sits super close to my colleague (C) and starts talking to him and asking him all kinds of questions. SG then insists on buying C a drink. Then SG says he wants to tell him something, and whispers in his ear that he wants to go home with him and have sex. C was visibly shocked and blushed, told SG that he was not in any way interested. SG started to insist, and C stepped away from the group and told SG bluntly that he was not gay and had no interest in having sex with SG, who must have been mistaken. At this point SG looked confused and said, that he too was not in any way gay, and was married with 4 kids. Then SG started pleading with C to let him go home with him. Things got loud as C almost shouting told SG to f**k off, and get the F**k out of the bar. About an hour later we were leaving the bar, and who was outside only SG, and he made a beeline for C and almost in tears was begging him to let him go home with him. C had to take a taxi home to avoid the unwelcome advances of SG – all extremely bizarre!!!