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	<title>Comments on: Evolution is a signal for real Republican populism</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/08/evolution-is-a-signal-for-real-republican-populism/</link>
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		<title>By: Darkseid</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/08/evolution-is-a-signal-for-real-republican-populism/#comment-35653</link>
		<dc:creator>Darkseid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Aug 2011 21:34:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=13601#comment-35653</guid>
		<description>Ok, thanks dad.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok, thanks dad.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel J. Andrews</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/08/evolution-is-a-signal-for-real-republican-populism/#comment-35652</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel J. Andrews</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Aug 2011 19:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=13601#comment-35652</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
I’ve started calling religious people “illiterate.” technically, they are scientifically illiterate, correct?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

No. Not correct. You&#039;re conflating two different things and assuming a religious belief of some type is equivalent to scientific illiteracy. It does seem rather strange to call people like Newton and  Dobzhansky scientifically illiterate as well as modern day folks like Francis Collins and Kenneth Miller. There may be other things you may wish to label* them with, but scientifically illiterate is not right.

*Labeling others can lead to problems in that it leads to lazy thinking--rather than take each case individually, just slap a label on them and you don&#039;t need to do much more thinking about it. Respectfully, I believe this is what you&#039;ve done here by labeling them scientifically illiterate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>
I’ve started calling religious people “illiterate.” technically, they are scientifically illiterate, correct?</p></blockquote>
<p>No. Not correct. You&#8217;re conflating two different things and assuming a religious belief of some type is equivalent to scientific illiteracy. It does seem rather strange to call people like Newton and  Dobzhansky scientifically illiterate as well as modern day folks like Francis Collins and Kenneth Miller. There may be other things you may wish to label* them with, but scientifically illiterate is not right.</p>
<p>*Labeling others can lead to problems in that it leads to lazy thinking&#8211;rather than take each case individually, just slap a label on them and you don&#8217;t need to do much more thinking about it. Respectfully, I believe this is what you&#8217;ve done here by labeling them scientifically illiterate.</p>
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		<title>By: Razib Khan</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/08/evolution-is-a-signal-for-real-republican-populism/#comment-35651</link>
		<dc:creator>Razib Khan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Aug 2011 15:39:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=13601#comment-35651</guid>
		<description>#9, yeah, greg is methodist. i would personally warn you against platonism :-) doesn&#039;t seem fruitful in finding new ideas.  a significant minority of regular readers are after all theists even on this weblog.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#9, yeah, greg is methodist. i would personally warn you against platonism <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />  doesn&#8217;t seem fruitful in finding new ideas.  a significant minority of regular readers are after all theists even on this weblog.</p>
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		<title>By: dave chamberlin</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/08/evolution-is-a-signal-for-real-republican-populism/#comment-35650</link>
		<dc:creator>dave chamberlin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Aug 2011 12:59:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=13601#comment-35650</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re thinking of the one, the only, German Drivel, Justin. Well maybe I misspelled his last name.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re thinking of the one, the only, German Drivel, Justin. Well maybe I misspelled his last name.</p>
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		<title>By: Sandgroper</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/08/evolution-is-a-signal-for-real-republican-populism/#comment-35649</link>
		<dc:creator>Sandgroper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Aug 2011 10:17:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=13601#comment-35649</guid>
		<description>No, Greg ridiculed that theory.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, Greg ridiculed that theory.</p>
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		<title>By: Justin Giancola</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/08/evolution-is-a-signal-for-real-republican-populism/#comment-35648</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin Giancola</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Aug 2011 09:24:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=13601#comment-35648</guid>
		<description>I could be wrong but I think Razib was implying that gcochran is scientifically illiterate; if he is the person I&#039;m thinking of with the humans came from america stuff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I could be wrong but I think Razib was implying that gcochran is scientifically illiterate; if he is the person I&#8217;m thinking of with the humans came from america stuff.</p>
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		<title>By: Darkseid</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/08/evolution-is-a-signal-for-real-republican-populism/#comment-35647</link>
		<dc:creator>Darkseid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Aug 2011 08:45:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=13601#comment-35647</guid>
		<description>what??  Greg is religious?  wow, i knew he was kind of &quot;fringe&quot; so i guess i shouldn&#039;t be surprised but that is still quite surprising.  anyway, yes, he is technically illiterate in my book then.  too bad - no exceptions for the religious since it makes no sense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>what??  Greg is religious?  wow, i knew he was kind of &#8220;fringe&#8221; so i guess i shouldn&#8217;t be surprised but that is still quite surprising.  anyway, yes, he is technically illiterate in my book then.  too bad &#8211; no exceptions for the religious since it makes no sense.</p>
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		<title>By: Clark</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/08/evolution-is-a-signal-for-real-republican-populism/#comment-35646</link>
		<dc:creator>Clark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Aug 2011 19:35:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=13601#comment-35646</guid>
		<description>Romney and Huntsman are Mormon though so that makes sense.  There actually are a lot of pro-evolution Catholic theologians so that&#039;s not too surprising about Gingrich given he converted to Catholicism. I&#039;d say I&#039;m surprised he kept the position this time around given the (surprising to me) rise of social conservatism as so significant. However he&#039;s run a pretty astoundingly incompetent campaign so I&#039;m not that surprised.  Still it&#039;s nice that some of the non-Mormon Republicans are embracing evolution. Especially given the place of Gingrich in populist conservative thought.  Wish we had more people embracing science publicly.

I do wonder how we can get these signals (evolution and global warming) changed in the party. I know that as signals they don&#039;t matter too much.  (And evolution is primarily an issue at the state level)  Personally I blame Al Gore for a lot of this. Before Gore did his campaign to raise awareness of global warming it wasn&#039;t nearly the signal it is today.  (And ironically Rick Perry at the time was Gore&#039;s state campaign director in Texas as I recall)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Romney and Huntsman are Mormon though so that makes sense.  There actually are a lot of pro-evolution Catholic theologians so that&#8217;s not too surprising about Gingrich given he converted to Catholicism. I&#8217;d say I&#8217;m surprised he kept the position this time around given the (surprising to me) rise of social conservatism as so significant. However he&#8217;s run a pretty astoundingly incompetent campaign so I&#8217;m not that surprised.  Still it&#8217;s nice that some of the non-Mormon Republicans are embracing evolution. Especially given the place of Gingrich in populist conservative thought.  Wish we had more people embracing science publicly.</p>
<p>I do wonder how we can get these signals (evolution and global warming) changed in the party. I know that as signals they don&#8217;t matter too much.  (And evolution is primarily an issue at the state level)  Personally I blame Al Gore for a lot of this. Before Gore did his campaign to raise awareness of global warming it wasn&#8217;t nearly the signal it is today.  (And ironically Rick Perry at the time was Gore&#8217;s state campaign director in Texas as I recall)</p>
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		<title>By: Nick</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/08/evolution-is-a-signal-for-real-republican-populism/#comment-35645</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Aug 2011 19:34:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=13601#comment-35645</guid>
		<description>I think Razib has mentioned before that most people really don&#039;t think too much about this stuff and take their cues from others.  A couple of examples from my own experience:

* I recently had an email exchange with an intelligent, well-educated conservative friend of mine and I mentioned in passing I wasn&#039;t too pleased with Rick Perry&#039;s appointing creationists to the Texas school board.  He replied with something along the lines of &quot;Well, I don&#039;t have a problem with evolution, but I don&#039;t see any problem with teaching both sides.&quot;  Like many people, the guy&#039;s got kids, a career, no background in science, doesn&#039;t read Discover blogs, etc and isn&#039;t about to invest the considerable time and effort needed to form a coherent, rational view of what to think about all this.
* My dad is a scientist, and a very good one at that.  He&#039;s also a staunch conservative.  Around the time &quot;Expelled&quot; came out, he made some comment expressing possible interest in it.  I informed him what a loan of b.s. it was of course, and he came around, but the point is that biology may as well be a foreign country to him.  Now, if Ben Stein had been saying that, say, covalent bonding is a myth and only Nazis believed in covalent bonding, my dad would have instantly dismissed him as a crank.  But biology?  Meh--he&#039;ll go with the flow on that one.

Some people are open to reason on this, especially if they haven’t thought about it much.  As for the rest, I don’t know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Razib has mentioned before that most people really don&#8217;t think too much about this stuff and take their cues from others.  A couple of examples from my own experience:</p>
<p>* I recently had an email exchange with an intelligent, well-educated conservative friend of mine and I mentioned in passing I wasn&#8217;t too pleased with Rick Perry&#8217;s appointing creationists to the Texas school board.  He replied with something along the lines of &#8220;Well, I don&#8217;t have a problem with evolution, but I don&#8217;t see any problem with teaching both sides.&#8221;  Like many people, the guy&#8217;s got kids, a career, no background in science, doesn&#8217;t read Discover blogs, etc and isn&#8217;t about to invest the considerable time and effort needed to form a coherent, rational view of what to think about all this.<br />
* My dad is a scientist, and a very good one at that.  He&#8217;s also a staunch conservative.  Around the time &#8220;Expelled&#8221; came out, he made some comment expressing possible interest in it.  I informed him what a loan of b.s. it was of course, and he came around, but the point is that biology may as well be a foreign country to him.  Now, if Ben Stein had been saying that, say, covalent bonding is a myth and only Nazis believed in covalent bonding, my dad would have instantly dismissed him as a crank.  But biology?  Meh&#8211;he&#8217;ll go with the flow on that one.</p>
<p>Some people are open to reason on this, especially if they haven’t thought about it much.  As for the rest, I don’t know.</p>
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		<title>By: Razib Khan</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/08/evolution-is-a-signal-for-real-republican-populism/#comment-35644</link>
		<dc:creator>Razib Khan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Aug 2011 19:28:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=13601#comment-35644</guid>
		<description>#5, so are you saying gcochran is illiterate? :-) just sayin&#039;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#5, so are you saying gcochran is illiterate? <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />  just sayin&#8217;</p>
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		<title>By: Darkseid</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/08/evolution-is-a-signal-for-real-republican-populism/#comment-35643</link>
		<dc:creator>Darkseid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Aug 2011 19:25:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=13601#comment-35643</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve started calling religious people &quot;illiterate.&quot; technically, they are scientifically illiterate, correct? I&#039;m hoping to make it uncool to be anti-science.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve started calling religious people &#8220;illiterate.&#8221; technically, they are scientifically illiterate, correct? I&#8217;m hoping to make it uncool to be anti-science.</p>
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		<title>By: Razib Khan</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/08/evolution-is-a-signal-for-real-republican-populism/#comment-35642</link>
		<dc:creator>Razib Khan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Aug 2011 19:14:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=13601#comment-35642</guid>
		<description>to my surprise, gingrich has in 2006 (to &lt;i&gt;discover&lt;/i&gt;). though he mouths a lot of implicit ID points too. romney and huntsman have been pretty full-throated and unequivocal, just short of scientific materialist evolution.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>to my surprise, gingrich has in 2006 (to <i>discover</i>). though he mouths a lot of implicit ID points too. romney and huntsman have been pretty full-throated and unequivocal, just short of scientific materialist evolution.</p>
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		<title>By: Clark</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/08/evolution-is-a-signal-for-real-republican-populism/#comment-35641</link>
		<dc:creator>Clark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Aug 2011 19:09:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=13601#comment-35641</guid>
		<description>Which of the candidates other than Romney and Huntsman expressed belief in evolution?  (I know both of them have - Romney did it in one of the main debates last time around)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Which of the candidates other than Romney and Huntsman expressed belief in evolution?  (I know both of them have &#8211; Romney did it in one of the main debates last time around)</p>
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		<title>By: dave chamberlin</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/08/evolution-is-a-signal-for-real-republican-populism/#comment-35640</link>
		<dc:creator>dave chamberlin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Aug 2011 18:59:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=13601#comment-35640</guid>
		<description>I really want to be an optimist, really I do, but the sorry truth is the world is packed with delusional fools. Give the average a choice and they choose magic that makes them feel better over logic, I mean WTF.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really want to be an optimist, really I do, but the sorry truth is the world is packed with delusional fools. Give the average a choice and they choose magic that makes them feel better over logic, I mean WTF.</p>
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		<title>By: Darkseid</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/08/evolution-is-a-signal-for-real-republican-populism/#comment-35639</link>
		<dc:creator>Darkseid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Aug 2011 18:22:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=13601#comment-35639</guid>
		<description>wow, i&#039;d have to say then that the stereotypes i have about those groups aren&#039;t really stereotypes.   they&#039;re basically just facts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>wow, i&#8217;d have to say then that the stereotypes i have about those groups aren&#8217;t really stereotypes.   they&#8217;re basically just facts.</p>
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