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	<title>Comments on: Ötzi, the dead sea scrolls of genomics?</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/10/otzi-the-dead-sea-scrolls-of-genomics/</link>
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		<title>By: Sandgroper</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/10/otzi-the-dead-sea-scrolls-of-genomics/#comment-37274</link>
		<dc:creator>Sandgroper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Oct 2011 08:46:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=14277#comment-37274</guid>
		<description>#6 - Noted.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#6 &#8211; Noted.</p>
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		<title>By: pconroy</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/10/otzi-the-dead-sea-scrolls-of-genomics/#comment-37273</link>
		<dc:creator>pconroy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Oct 2011 04:26:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=14277#comment-37273</guid>
		<description>in terms of potential interesting stuff, perhaps they were referring to something from this snippet, as quoted by Dienekes:

Interesting tidbit from David Reich&#039;s talk, referring to the earliest ANI/ASI work: &quot;We now know in unpublished work from our laboratory that Europeans are anciently mixed just like South Asians&quot;.

From:
http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2011/10/ichg-2011-webcast.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>in terms of potential interesting stuff, perhaps they were referring to something from this snippet, as quoted by Dienekes:</p>
<p>Interesting tidbit from David Reich&#8217;s talk, referring to the earliest ANI/ASI work: &#8220;We now know in unpublished work from our laboratory that Europeans are anciently mixed just like South Asians&#8221;.</p>
<p>From:<br />
<a href="http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2011/10/ichg-2011-webcast.html" rel="nofollow">http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2011/10/ichg-2011-webcast.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Eurologist</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/10/otzi-the-dead-sea-scrolls-of-genomics/#comment-37272</link>
		<dc:creator>Eurologist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Oct 2011 01:24:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=14277#comment-37272</guid>
		<description>Razib,

I meant that in the context of European population history, a single data point doesn&#039;t give you all that much information.  Of course, if the autosomal DNA turns out to be very close to some current northern Italians, then you have some indication of continuity.  But if it is a surprise and quite removed, then you really don&#039;t know at all what is going on until you have more data points.

As I pointed out in another post, it is quite intriguing that when you take &quot;a left&quot; going upstream from the Danube at any of the larger rivers, you always end up in South Tyrol.  So, I am in particular curious if there is a connection to the northern Balkans;  Ötzi&#039;s y-DNA G2 already suggests such a link.  Of course, so much has changed there in historic times alone, one might need to go into a village, say, at the border between Albania and Montenegro to establish a connection.

As to mare&#039;s milk, yes, that is well known:  steppe people fermented it to be able to drink it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Razib,</p>
<p>I meant that in the context of European population history, a single data point doesn&#8217;t give you all that much information.  Of course, if the autosomal DNA turns out to be very close to some current northern Italians, then you have some indication of continuity.  But if it is a surprise and quite removed, then you really don&#8217;t know at all what is going on until you have more data points.</p>
<p>As I pointed out in another post, it is quite intriguing that when you take &#8220;a left&#8221; going upstream from the Danube at any of the larger rivers, you always end up in South Tyrol.  So, I am in particular curious if there is a connection to the northern Balkans;  Ötzi&#8217;s y-DNA G2 already suggests such a link.  Of course, so much has changed there in historic times alone, one might need to go into a village, say, at the border between Albania and Montenegro to establish a connection.</p>
<p>As to mare&#8217;s milk, yes, that is well known:  steppe people fermented it to be able to drink it.</p>
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		<title>By: Justin Giancola</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/10/otzi-the-dead-sea-scrolls-of-genomics/#comment-37271</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin Giancola</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Oct 2011 00:42:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=14277#comment-37271</guid>
		<description>I would&#039;ve posted this in the previous thread but it was closed, but I found out what resolves this long discrepancy regarding our East Asian friends and mares milk.

&quot;During fermentation, the lactose in mare&#039;s milk is converted into lactic acid, ethanol and carbon dioxide, and the milk becomes an accessible source of nutrition for people who are lactose intolerant.[10]

Before fermentation, mare&#039;s milk has almost 40% more lactose than cow&#039;s milk.[11] According to one modern source, &quot;unfermented mare&#039;s milk is generally not drunk&quot;, because it is a strong laxative.[1] Varro&#039;s On Agriculture, from the 1st century BC, also mentions this: &quot;as a laxative the best is mare&#039;s milk, then donkey&#039;s milk, cow&#039;s milk, and finally goat&#039;s milk...&quot;;[12] drinking six ounces (190 ml) a day would be enough to give a lactose-intolerant person severe intestinal symptoms.&quot;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kumis</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would&#8217;ve posted this in the previous thread but it was closed, but I found out what resolves this long discrepancy regarding our East Asian friends and mares milk.</p>
<p>&#8220;During fermentation, the lactose in mare&#8217;s milk is converted into lactic acid, ethanol and carbon dioxide, and the milk becomes an accessible source of nutrition for people who are lactose intolerant.[10]</p>
<p>Before fermentation, mare&#8217;s milk has almost 40% more lactose than cow&#8217;s milk.[11] According to one modern source, &#8220;unfermented mare&#8217;s milk is generally not drunk&#8221;, because it is a strong laxative.[1] Varro&#8217;s On Agriculture, from the 1st century BC, also mentions this: &#8220;as a laxative the best is mare&#8217;s milk, then donkey&#8217;s milk, cow&#8217;s milk, and finally goat&#8217;s milk&#8230;&#8221;;[12] drinking six ounces (190 ml) a day would be enough to give a lactose-intolerant person severe intestinal symptoms.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kumis" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kumis</a></p>
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		<title>By: Razib Khan</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/10/otzi-the-dead-sea-scrolls-of-genomics/#comment-37270</link>
		<dc:creator>Razib Khan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Oct 2011 23:34:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=14277#comment-37270</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;The thing is, &lt;b&gt;with just one sample you can’t really say much&lt;/b&gt;, at all – especially, if Ötzi’s ancestry appears more closely related to a distant region.&lt;/i&gt;

depends on what you mean to say. as you have to one know one individual&#039;s genome can be highly informative of all sorts of things.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>The thing is, <b>with just one sample you can’t really say much</b>, at all – especially, if Ötzi’s ancestry appears more closely related to a distant region.</i></p>
<p>depends on what you mean to say. as you have to one know one individual&#8217;s genome can be highly informative of all sorts of things.</p>
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		<title>By: Eurologist</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/10/otzi-the-dead-sea-scrolls-of-genomics/#comment-37269</link>
		<dc:creator>Eurologist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Oct 2011 23:04:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=14277#comment-37269</guid>
		<description>If they can get useful autosomal data from other ancient skeletons, that would be hugely important.  The thing is, with just one sample you can&#039;t really say much, at all - especially, if Ötzi’s ancestry appears more closely related to a distant region.

In today&#039;s European autosomal DNA I see no evidence of much turnover since the Chalcolithic, perhaps a slight increase of Western Asian and &quot;Red Sea&quot; composition, mostly in southern Europe.  Ultimately of course the holy grail is autosomal DNA from before the arrival of agriculture, for comparison.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If they can get useful autosomal data from other ancient skeletons, that would be hugely important.  The thing is, with just one sample you can&#8217;t really say much, at all &#8211; especially, if Ötzi’s ancestry appears more closely related to a distant region.</p>
<p>In today&#8217;s European autosomal DNA I see no evidence of much turnover since the Chalcolithic, perhaps a slight increase of Western Asian and &#8220;Red Sea&#8221; composition, mostly in southern Europe.  Ultimately of course the holy grail is autosomal DNA from before the arrival of agriculture, for comparison.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Ó Duḃṫaiġ</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/10/otzi-the-dead-sea-scrolls-of-genomics/#comment-37268</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Ó Duḃṫaiġ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Oct 2011 10:25:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=14277#comment-37268</guid>
		<description>With regards to R1b about 70% of Irishmen for example belong to L21 clade of R1b, the folks doing TMRCA calculations tend to reckon that L21 is only about 4,000 years old. Ireland has been inhabited fro about 8-10k years in comparison!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With regards to R1b about 70% of Irishmen for example belong to L21 clade of R1b, the folks doing TMRCA calculations tend to reckon that L21 is only about 4,000 years old. Ireland has been inhabited fro about 8-10k years in comparison!</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher@BorderWars</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/10/otzi-the-dead-sea-scrolls-of-genomics/#comment-37267</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher@BorderWars</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Oct 2011 04:54:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=14277#comment-37267</guid>
		<description>As a fellow G2a of European extraction, I can&#039;t wait to see what work this paper has done on that Y haplogroup.  The posturing, however, reminds me more of Zahi Hawass and I cringe.  After I watched that goof destroy the gorgeous and well preserved bead work on top of a dynastic mummy for the sake of a photo-op for the waiting HD cameras and LIVE LIVE LIVE coverage, it as clear to me that such media grand standing wasn&#039;t annoying but benign, it was bad and dangerous for science.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a fellow G2a of European extraction, I can&#8217;t wait to see what work this paper has done on that Y haplogroup.  The posturing, however, reminds me more of Zahi Hawass and I cringe.  After I watched that goof destroy the gorgeous and well preserved bead work on top of a dynastic mummy for the sake of a photo-op for the waiting HD cameras and LIVE LIVE LIVE coverage, it as clear to me that such media grand standing wasn&#8217;t annoying but benign, it was bad and dangerous for science.</p>
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		<title>By: Dwight E. Howell</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/10/otzi-the-dead-sea-scrolls-of-genomics/#comment-37266</link>
		<dc:creator>Dwight E. Howell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Oct 2011 00:44:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=14277#comment-37266</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m starting to sea Europe as a trap into which various groups expand only to get over run and largely replaced.

After the first population of humans moved in even if they rampantly hybridized with the next wave
when the next wave after them came along most of their genes would get selected out and I&#039;m thinking this process has been repeated with various degrees of completeness some huge number of times.

Of course I&#039;ll change my opinions to match whatever the genes show actually happened but for now that&#039;s my theory and I&#039;m sticking with it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m starting to sea Europe as a trap into which various groups expand only to get over run and largely replaced.</p>
<p>After the first population of humans moved in even if they rampantly hybridized with the next wave<br />
when the next wave after them came along most of their genes would get selected out and I&#8217;m thinking this process has been repeated with various degrees of completeness some huge number of times.</p>
<p>Of course I&#8217;ll change my opinions to match whatever the genes show actually happened but for now that&#8217;s my theory and I&#8217;m sticking with it.</p>
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