Comments on: Out of the agricultural hearths http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/12/out-of-the-agricultural-hearths/ Human evolution, genetics, genomics and their interstices Sat, 26 May 2012 00:28:05 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Onur http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/12/out-of-the-agricultural-hearths/comment-page-1/#comment-107098 Onur Tue, 13 Dec 2011 01:16:38 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=14785#comment-107098 Whether there was ever a divergence between Old East Asians and Old Siberians and its time are far from clear too. I think it too, if happened, is much later than the divergence between ASI and Old East Asians + Old Siberians. Whether there was ever a divergence between Old East Asians and Old Siberians and its time are far from clear too. I think it too, if happened, is much later than the divergence between ASI and Old East Asians + Old Siberians.

]]> By: Dwight E. Howell http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/12/out-of-the-agricultural-hearths/comment-page-1/#comment-107097 Dwight E. Howell Tue, 13 Dec 2011 01:15:52 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=14785#comment-107097 Repeated invasions by nomadic horse clans need to be factored in. I know it's hard to try and factor in what was happening as these repeated waves of expansion hammered against the farmers but they were a major factor until guns stopped the waves. Repeated invasions by nomadic horse clans need to be factored in. I know it’s hard to try and factor in what was happening as these repeated waves of expansion hammered against the farmers but they were a major factor until guns stopped the waves.

]]> By: Eurasian Sensation http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/12/out-of-the-agricultural-hearths/comment-page-1/#comment-107095 Eurasian Sensation Tue, 13 Dec 2011 01:05:05 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=14785#comment-107095 Could a similar process have happened in the Americas, at least to some extent? Obviously there are different population dynamics there, with agriculture developing relatively later. But the same process happened independently in Africa (the Bantu expansion) so I'd be surprised if it didn't in the New World. Could a similar process have happened in the Americas, at least to some extent? Obviously there are different population dynamics there, with agriculture developing relatively later. But the same process happened independently in Africa (the Bantu expansion) so I’d be surprised if it didn’t in the New World.

]]> By: Matt http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/12/out-of-the-agricultural-hearths/comment-page-1/#comment-107091 Matt Tue, 13 Dec 2011 00:42:48 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=14785#comment-107091 Shame you've only got two dimensions to work with, since it confuses the Ethiopian-West Asian relationship a little (unless that's actually mediated through Europeans)! That's quite a compressed way to present that plausible model though. <i>I think the divergence between Old Europeans and Old West Asians, if there was ever such a divergence, is much later than the divergence between ASI and Old East Asians + Old Siberians.</i> Yeah. Not too sure about South East Asians getting any Australian component though. The South East Asians, in the supplementary data in the Metspalu paper (http://download.cell.com/AJHG/mmcs/journals/0002-9297/PIIS0002929711004885.mmc1.pdf), seem to have quite comparable FST to Papuans as Oroqen do - basically equal, which seems not possible to reconcile with a proto-Papuan contribution unless there is some unknown mystery meat pushing them away by an equal amount. And quite comparable FST with Han Chinese as Europeans have with West Asians. Although if you meant purely Maritime South East Asia, rather than Peninsular South East Asia, then that's not something that paper says anything about! (Populations with South Asian elements (like Burmese, South Asians) and/or mixes of West Eurasian and East Eurasian elements, like Uyghurs, Hazara, seem to have reduced FST with Papuans and Melanesians in this data, for some reason). Shame you’ve only got two dimensions to work with, since it confuses the Ethiopian-West Asian relationship a little (unless that’s actually mediated through Europeans)! That’s quite a compressed way to present that plausible model though.

I think the divergence between Old Europeans and Old West Asians, if there was ever such a divergence, is much later than the divergence between ASI and Old East Asians + Old Siberians. Yeah.

Not too sure about South East Asians getting any Australian component though. The South East Asians, in the supplementary data in the Metspalu paper (http://download.cell.com/AJHG/mmcs/journals/0002-9297/PIIS0002929711004885.mmc1.pdf), seem to have quite comparable FST to Papuans as Oroqen do – basically equal, which seems not possible to reconcile with a proto-Papuan contribution unless there is some unknown mystery meat pushing them away by an equal amount. And quite comparable FST with Han Chinese as Europeans have with West Asians. Although if you meant purely Maritime South East Asia, rather than Peninsular South East Asia, then that’s not something that paper says anything about!

(Populations with South Asian elements (like Burmese, South Asians) and/or mixes of West Eurasian and East Eurasian elements, like Uyghurs, Hazara, seem to have reduced FST with Papuans and Melanesians in this data, for some reason).

]]> By: ohwilleke http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/12/out-of-the-agricultural-hearths/comment-page-1/#comment-107088 ohwilleke Tue, 13 Dec 2011 00:18:53 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=14785#comment-107088 Yowsers! Usually, diagrams are more clear than words, but in this case, the diagram is more information than my brain can handle in one chunk. Yowsers! Usually, diagrams are more clear than words, but in this case, the diagram is more information than my brain can handle in one chunk.

]]> By: Onur http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/12/out-of-the-agricultural-hearths/comment-page-1/#comment-107084 Onur Mon, 12 Dec 2011 23:42:57 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=14785#comment-107084 I think the divergence between Old Europeans and Old West Asians, if there was ever such a divergence, is much later than the divergence between ASI and Old East Asians + Old Siberians. David Reich's soon-to-be-published European paper may address these issues. I think the divergence between Old Europeans and Old West Asians, if there was ever such a divergence, is much later than the divergence between ASI and Old East Asians + Old Siberians. David Reich’s soon-to-be-published European paper may address these issues.

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