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	<title>Comments on: The Kalash in perspective</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2012/02/the-kalash-in-perspective/</link>
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		<title>By: AV</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2012/02/the-kalash-in-perspective/#comment-40583</link>
		<dc:creator>AV</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Feb 2012 02:02:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=15775#comment-40583</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;&quot;I have no good model for why mountains would foster such a phenotypic difference, but that’s all I’m left with.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Couldn&#039;t their (the various Northern Pakistani tribes) phenotypic variation easily be explained by two rather important factors as follows?;

&lt;b&gt;Weather and Climate&lt;/b&gt; - Climatic conditions and altitude might also well be the reason behind the occurrence of such individuals. The Hunza Valley, home to the frequently light pigmented Burusho, is mountainous in nature. North Waziristan, in the Federally Administered Tribal Areas is known to have a hilly geographic character. Chitral, home to the Kalash tribes is also rather mountainous and filled with passes. In the winter the night time temperature occasionally drops to -10 C with snowfall being abundant.

&lt;b&gt;Endogamy&lt;/b&gt; -  The highly tribal mentality of these people could also be one of the factors contributing towards the occurrence of such traits. As many have noted, these features are often seen in close-knit tribes in isolated geographic areas. The Kalash are the best example, but so are some of the mountain Pashtun clans. The light traits among them occurring so frequently might simply be a by-product of their inbreeding. Thus, the lack of out-breeding, has successfully spread these traits in a few generations in specific clans and tribes rather fast. Indeed, even their genetics throws light on their distinctiveness relative to others. The Kalash have for instance, through generations of inter-marriage, formed their own genetic cluster as increased isolation will only increase the rate of homozygosity. Thus, their divergence from other Eurasians has been accelerated through their natural isolation. To add to this, their cultural distinctiveness relative to sorrounding populations only further reinforces the same. This is why they always cluster within themselves and show minimal admixture from outside. This has been shown in a number of experiments, and attempts at extrapolating their genome structure have been unsatisfactory due to this.

Although one can&#039;t help but wonder whether the occurrence of such phenotypes might be attributed to the ~15% Northern European admixture that groups like the Burusho and Pathans exhibit in ADMIXTURE, although morphology-specific phenotype genetics seems to be a rather ambiguous science as of now, and these features occur among West-Asians as well..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p><i>&#8220;I have no good model for why mountains would foster such a phenotypic difference, but that’s all I’m left with.&#8221;</i></p></blockquote>
<p>Couldn&#8217;t their (the various Northern Pakistani tribes) phenotypic variation easily be explained by two rather important factors as follows?;</p>
<p><b>Weather and Climate</b> &#8211; Climatic conditions and altitude might also well be the reason behind the occurrence of such individuals. The Hunza Valley, home to the frequently light pigmented Burusho, is mountainous in nature. North Waziristan, in the Federally Administered Tribal Areas is known to have a hilly geographic character. Chitral, home to the Kalash tribes is also rather mountainous and filled with passes. In the winter the night time temperature occasionally drops to -10 C with snowfall being abundant.</p>
<p><b>Endogamy</b> &#8211;  The highly tribal mentality of these people could also be one of the factors contributing towards the occurrence of such traits. As many have noted, these features are often seen in close-knit tribes in isolated geographic areas. The Kalash are the best example, but so are some of the mountain Pashtun clans. The light traits among them occurring so frequently might simply be a by-product of their inbreeding. Thus, the lack of out-breeding, has successfully spread these traits in a few generations in specific clans and tribes rather fast. Indeed, even their genetics throws light on their distinctiveness relative to others. The Kalash have for instance, through generations of inter-marriage, formed their own genetic cluster as increased isolation will only increase the rate of homozygosity. Thus, their divergence from other Eurasians has been accelerated through their natural isolation. To add to this, their cultural distinctiveness relative to sorrounding populations only further reinforces the same. This is why they always cluster within themselves and show minimal admixture from outside. This has been shown in a number of experiments, and attempts at extrapolating their genome structure have been unsatisfactory due to this.</p>
<p>Although one can&#8217;t help but wonder whether the occurrence of such phenotypes might be attributed to the ~15% Northern European admixture that groups like the Burusho and Pathans exhibit in ADMIXTURE, although morphology-specific phenotype genetics seems to be a rather ambiguous science as of now, and these features occur among West-Asians as well..</p>
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		<title>By: Razib Khan</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2012/02/the-kalash-in-perspective/#comment-40582</link>
		<dc:creator>Razib Khan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Feb 2012 23:51:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=15775#comment-40582</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Is it that their more western appearance is an effect of local standards of beauty that are contra the surrounding larger population, a subtle, unconscious way of preserving their specialness?&lt;/i&gt;

from what i know about pakistan, probably not (as noted many pathans look like the kalash). and some kalash look like more conventional south asians (albeit, of the northwest variety).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Is it that their more western appearance is an effect of local standards of beauty that are contra the surrounding larger population, a subtle, unconscious way of preserving their specialness?</i></p>
<p>from what i know about pakistan, probably not (as noted many pathans look like the kalash). and some kalash look like more conventional south asians (albeit, of the northwest variety).</p>
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		<title>By: ackbark</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2012/02/the-kalash-in-perspective/#comment-40581</link>
		<dc:creator>ackbark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Feb 2012 23:07:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=15775#comment-40581</guid>
		<description>Is it that their more western appearance is an effect of local standards of beauty that are contra the surrounding larger population, a subtle, unconscious way of preserving their specialness?

(I think I said something like that before in another case.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is it that their more western appearance is an effect of local standards of beauty that are contra the surrounding larger population, a subtle, unconscious way of preserving their specialness?</p>
<p>(I think I said something like that before in another case.)</p>
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		<title>By: Razib Khan</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2012/02/the-kalash-in-perspective/#comment-40580</link>
		<dc:creator>Razib Khan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Feb 2012 20:59:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=15775#comment-40580</guid>
		<description>#11, i don&#039;t give a shit what you think. why? uyghur and kalash are both in HGDP and haven&#039;t see anything which relates them. though perhaps uniparental?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#11, i don&#8217;t give a shit what you think. why? uyghur and kalash are both in HGDP and haven&#8217;t see anything which relates them. though perhaps uniparental?</p>
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		<title>By: tocharian</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2012/02/the-kalash-in-perspective/#comment-40579</link>
		<dc:creator>tocharian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Feb 2012 20:15:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=15775#comment-40579</guid>
		<description>I think they are remnants of the Tocharians. Probably the proto -Caucasoids occupied the steppes from China to western europe in small hunter gatherer bands. At some point the tocharians in Pakistan were pushed up to the mountains by proto  - dravidians from the south.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think they are remnants of the Tocharians. Probably the proto -Caucasoids occupied the steppes from China to western europe in small hunter gatherer bands. At some point the tocharians in Pakistan were pushed up to the mountains by proto  &#8211; dravidians from the south.</p>
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		<title>By: Grey</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2012/02/the-kalash-in-perspective/#comment-40578</link>
		<dc:creator>Grey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Feb 2012 20:26:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=15775#comment-40578</guid>
		<description>Completely tangential but some of this made me wonder about Dionysian rituals.

http://www.indigenouspeople.net/Kalashvalley.htm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Completely tangential but some of this made me wonder about Dionysian rituals.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.indigenouspeople.net/Kalashvalley.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.indigenouspeople.net/Kalashvalley.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: Charles Nydorf</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2012/02/the-kalash-in-perspective/#comment-40577</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles Nydorf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Feb 2012 15:22:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=15775#comment-40577</guid>
		<description>Now I see. The colors run from blue through red to yellow with blue indicating the most intense coancestry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now I see. The colors run from blue through red to yellow with blue indicating the most intense coancestry.</p>
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		<title>By: Karl Zimmerman</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2012/02/the-kalash-in-perspective/#comment-40576</link>
		<dc:creator>Karl Zimmerman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Feb 2012 15:04:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=15775#comment-40576</guid>
		<description>Someone feel free to correct me, but from what I&#039;ve seen, at least some Pashtun are on the lighter side as well, if not as light as the two populations discussed above.  Certainly they seem to have a relatively high incidence of light eyes, although as adults dark brown to black hair seems to be the norm.  Although South Asian-looking features are predominant, I know I&#039;ve met Pashtuns who wouldn&#039;t look out of place in Europe anywhere except Scandinavia.

 Here&#039;s &lt;a HREF=&quot;http://pastmist.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/north_pakistan_man.jpg?w=460&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;an extreme example &lt;/A&gt;(from Chitral) I found on the web.  It&#039;s associated with an &lt;A&gt;interesting  thread on a Pashtun discussion forum&lt;/A&gt; where Pashtuns are discussing the commonly held variations in appearance among the different Pashtun tribes.  It&#039;s obviously all hearsay (although better than the average non-academic discussion forum), but from what I can gather, it&#039;s the populations closest geographically to the Kalash and Burusho which show the most &quot;European&quot; features - suggesting they&#039;re mainly descended from highland groups which assimilated into Pashtun culture later.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Someone feel free to correct me, but from what I&#8217;ve seen, at least some Pashtun are on the lighter side as well, if not as light as the two populations discussed above.  Certainly they seem to have a relatively high incidence of light eyes, although as adults dark brown to black hair seems to be the norm.  Although South Asian-looking features are predominant, I know I&#8217;ve met Pashtuns who wouldn&#8217;t look out of place in Europe anywhere except Scandinavia.</p>
<p> Here&#8217;s <a HREF="http://pastmist.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/north_pakistan_man.jpg?w=460" rel="nofollow">an extreme example </a>(from Chitral) I found on the web.  It&#8217;s associated with an <a>interesting  thread on a Pashtun discussion forum</a> where Pashtuns are discussing the commonly held variations in appearance among the different Pashtun tribes.  It&#8217;s obviously all hearsay (although better than the average non-academic discussion forum), but from what I can gather, it&#8217;s the populations closest geographically to the Kalash and Burusho which show the most &#8220;European&#8221; features &#8211; suggesting they&#8217;re mainly descended from highland groups which assimilated into Pashtun culture later.</p>
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		<title>By: Liesel</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2012/02/the-kalash-in-perspective/#comment-40575</link>
		<dc:creator>Liesel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Feb 2012 14:31:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=15775#comment-40575</guid>
		<description>The link to the Kalash and Burusho images both go to the Kalash images. I think you meant this  http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=burusho&amp;view=detail&amp;id=1DB1A0A6475DBE156088CA557ABCEF2D32080514&amp;first=0&amp;qpvt=burusho&amp;FORM=IDFRIR for the Burusho.

&lt;i&gt;&quot;would foster such a phenotypic difference, but that’s all I’m left with.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

I wonder what their actual phenotype in person would look like. If  someone brought  in a Northern European and placed them to the right of a Kalash and placed a Pashtun to the left them in the same photograph we might see a noticalbe difference. I realize eyewitnessness describe the Kalash as lighter than their neighbors so it is not all smoke and mirrors. However, lighting and camera angle could still be accentuating this creatung the rather romantic fantasy of &quot;lost white tribe.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The link to the Kalash and Burusho images both go to the Kalash images. I think you meant this  <a href="http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=burusho&#038;view=detail&#038;id=1DB1A0A6475DBE156088CA557ABCEF2D32080514&#038;first=0&#038;qpvt=burusho&#038;FORM=IDFRIR" rel="nofollow">http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=burusho&#038;view=detail&#038;id=1DB1A0A6475DBE156088CA557ABCEF2D32080514&#038;first=0&#038;qpvt=burusho&#038;FORM=IDFRIR</a> for the Burusho.</p>
<p><i>&#8220;would foster such a phenotypic difference, but that’s all I’m left with.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>I wonder what their actual phenotype in person would look like. If  someone brought  in a Northern European and placed them to the right of a Kalash and placed a Pashtun to the left them in the same photograph we might see a noticalbe difference. I realize eyewitnessness describe the Kalash as lighter than their neighbors so it is not all smoke and mirrors. However, lighting and camera angle could still be accentuating this creatung the rather romantic fantasy of &#8220;lost white tribe.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Ibra</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2012/02/the-kalash-in-perspective/#comment-40574</link>
		<dc:creator>Ibra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Feb 2012 22:28:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=15775#comment-40574</guid>
		<description>&quot;The bluer the diagonal, the more inbred and isolated the population is likely to be&quot;

Just for fun you should run this with the Onge :D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The bluer the diagonal, the more inbred and isolated the population is likely to be&#8221;</p>
<p>Just for fun you should run this with the Onge <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Razib Khan</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2012/02/the-kalash-in-perspective/#comment-40573</link>
		<dc:creator>Razib Khan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Feb 2012 20:28:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=15775#comment-40573</guid>
		<description>also, my banning of #2 had to do with douchebaggery. no more discussion of that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>also, my banning of #2 had to do with douchebaggery. no more discussion of that.</p>
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		<title>By: Vitasta</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2012/02/the-kalash-in-perspective/#comment-40572</link>
		<dc:creator>Vitasta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Feb 2012 19:45:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=15775#comment-40572</guid>
		<description>Weiss, KM and Long, JC in &lt;i&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://genome.cshlp.org/content/19/5/703.full&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Non-Darwinian estimation: My ancestors, my genes&#039; ancestors&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/i&gt; generate a heat map using, &quot;...the average of Nei’s unbiased gene identity statistic over 678 loci within each individual, and between all pairs of individuals (Nei 1987)&quot; with Noah Rosenberg&#039;s data. They point to a rather surprising result from this re the Kalash, &quot;Fifth, there is high gene identity within and between Kalash individuals but in comparison to people in different geographic regions the Kalash present a pattern that is similar to Europeans and South Asians. &lt;b&gt;This result is somewhat surprising because the structure program output depicts the Kalash as a unique ancestral population.&lt;/b&gt;&quot; Quite interesting and not dissimilar to the results with fineStructure, I thought.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Weiss, KM and Long, JC in <i><a href="http://genome.cshlp.org/content/19/5/703.full" rel="nofollow">Non-Darwinian estimation: My ancestors, my genes&#8217; ancestors</a></i> generate a heat map using, &#8220;&#8230;the average of Nei’s unbiased gene identity statistic over 678 loci within each individual, and between all pairs of individuals (Nei 1987)&#8221; with Noah Rosenberg&#8217;s data. They point to a rather surprising result from this re the Kalash, &#8220;Fifth, there is high gene identity within and between Kalash individuals but in comparison to people in different geographic regions the Kalash present a pattern that is similar to Europeans and South Asians. <b>This result is somewhat surprising because the structure program output depicts the Kalash as a unique ancestral population.</b>&#8221; Quite interesting and not dissimilar to the results with fineStructure, I thought.</p>
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		<title>By: Razib Khan</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2012/02/the-kalash-in-perspective/#comment-40571</link>
		<dc:creator>Razib Khan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Feb 2012 17:54:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=15775#comment-40571</guid>
		<description>#2, right, just banned you. #1, i did explain it succinctly. follow zack&#039;s post, or read my post on the new technique. with all due respect, do a little of your own legwork sometimes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#2, right, just banned you. #1, i did explain it succinctly. follow zack&#8217;s post, or read my post on the new technique. with all due respect, do a little of your own legwork sometimes.</p>
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		<title>By: Mustapha Mond</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2012/02/the-kalash-in-perspective/#comment-40570</link>
		<dc:creator>Mustapha Mond</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Feb 2012 17:29:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=15775#comment-40570</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt; “right thinking” whites wouldn’t dare express racial consciousness&lt;/i&gt;

Indeed, you yourself seek to ban us from this blog.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i> “right thinking” whites wouldn’t dare express racial consciousness</i></p>
<p>Indeed, you yourself seek to ban us from this blog.</p>
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		<title>By: Charles Nydorf</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2012/02/the-kalash-in-perspective/#comment-40569</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles Nydorf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Feb 2012 16:03:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/?p=15775#comment-40569</guid>
		<description>Please explain how to read a heat map.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please explain how to read a heat map.</p>
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