Comments on: A deeper dive analysis of two Cubans

By: Miami

Miami — Sun, 29 Apr 2012 22:58:09 +0000

Andy Garcia has a typical Miami Cuban looks. In Miami Cubans come in many different looks. We have blond, brunette, and red hair Cubans. Cuba didn’t only had immigration from Spain, many people from all over Europe immigrated to Cuba, but Iberian were the majority. In Miami Spaniards from the Canary Islands are constantly asked if they’re Cuban. They get confused for Cuban because we have the same accent and Canarians look like white Cubans, which isn’t odd because most white Cubans have ancestors from the Canary Islands, Spain.

Here are pictures of Miami Cubans. The vast majority look like the white Cubans you would meet in Miami. The Cubans in my list of pictures are regular middle class Cubans, not the elite Cubans. We do have mix race Cubans in Miami, but they’re not the majority.
All the Cubans in these pictures look European:

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r639/archangel102/People/180124_185871774776845_100000620715198_476772_1507470_n.jpg

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r639/archangel102/People/562742_302889043113773_100001780408035_667310_1826376663_n.jpg

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r639/archangel102/People/553178_3610926314740_1321216155_3445334_1385821304_n.jpg

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r639/archangel102/People/546296_3621609948694_1527303892_3163723_464301714_n.jpg

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r639/archangel102/People/431609_10150587044834440_543604439_8941497_236959539_n.jpg

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r639/archangel102/People/428217_2763735415651_1325822819_32167595_1806274186_n.jpg

In this picture the first guy on the left is not Cuban
http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r639/archangel102/People/417672_342048165829684_100000735102282_1117233_1336338024_n.jpg

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r639/archangel102/People/401078_324778437565042_100000986644446_924407_828105799_n.jpg

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r639/archangel102/People/395245_372675199414161_162818820399801_1667555_63169184_n.jpg

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r639/archangel102/People/394122_365787960102885_162818820399801_1650792_89383939_n.jpg

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r639/archangel102/People/392728_146137972164501_100003048964375_183070_959145022_n.jpg

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r639/archangel102/People/319527_10150397093324755_541264754_8483983_1368622853_n.jpg

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r639/archangel102/People/310032_1728954603213_1818900602_1174978_2945092_n.jpg

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r639/archangel102/People/308724_240110092718168_100001575362780_694000_1138502861_n.jpg

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r639/archangel102/People/296007_256210874408826_100000597472529_978955_4809449_n.jpg

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r639/archangel102/People/267960_1861419257966_1315481959_31577617_3903410_n.jpg

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r639/archangel102/People/260003_2266441183517_1323170542_4191732_5359537_n.jpg

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r639/archangel102/People/226580_10150182176314361_661634360_6441203_7009494_n.jpg

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r639/archangel102/People/225281_173688656018235_100001313058964_400472_65351_n.jpg

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r639/archangel102/People/223270_198171586892053_100000976396846_550707_655028_n.jpg

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r639/archangel102/People/221989_1924076791355_1525182616_32066525_1146611_n.jpg

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r639/archangel102/People/206819_1054070545097_1025809196_30156987_3371412_n.jpg

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r639/archangel102/People/206777_1712454448914_1164743451_31443511_3950625_n.jpg

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r639/archangel102/People/200597_1890711956703_1508626518_2047424_1077830_n.jpg

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r639/archangel102/People/180008_109047892505661_100002013539767_68863_5865128_n.jpg

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r639/archangel102/People/168041_10150117025490792_725730791_8251726_4777552_n.jpg

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r639/archangel102/People/166799_132424693491218_100001710636791_201367_2127160_n.jpg

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r639/archangel102/People/149151_1505513111467_1043448217_31149980_1357359_n-1.jpg

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r639/archangel102/People/148483_160662710638951_100000856704325_276950_2563149_n.jpg

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r639/archangel102/People/76725_1659203087324_4183454_n.jpg

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r639/archangel102/People/74842_1693770949241_1386815562_1794670_2020136_n.jpg

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r639/archangel102/People/66082_133031953416341_100001286100477_197938_4398525_n.jpg

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r639/archangel102/People/58885_433024981309_700811309_4959980_393745_n.jpg

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r639/archangel102/People/38273_143349072358998_100000517176379_358612_749956_n.jpg

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r639/archangel102/People/34100_10150219311455153_717180152_13653821_3191596_n.jpg

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r639/archangel102/People/29165_1473193392427_1311432778_31302100_1410771_n.jpg

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r639/archangel102/People/23691_372603833621_5275550_n.jpg

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r639/archangel102/People/23636_383834428621_190012748621_3739856_1134254_n.jpg

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r639/archangel102/People/23607_1346326853012_1076504892_1020579_1496332_n.jpg

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r639/archangel102/People/19669_105690522781545_100000217928088_159424_5268707_n.jpg

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r639/archangel102/People/15934_1229328464830_1577641185_30602751_4048238_n.jpg

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r639/archangel102/People/15704_114595495243403_100000788580978_82288_6405425_n.jpg

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r639/archangel102/People/6826_1207170429179_1526224269_1999563_3922276_n.jpg

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r639/archangel102/People/4738_1133162618995_1525182616_30325244_480955_n.jpg

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r639/archangel102/People/372_1053234446262_1087819597_1368786_239_n.jpg

You can also look up other white Cubans like Gelet Martinez, Marili Cancio, Carlos Ponce, Raul Esparza, Bronson Arroyo, Jose Diaz Balart, William Levy, Cari Dominguez, Carlos Eire, Daniella Garcia, Dominik Garcia, Tico Torres, Raul de Molina, Eddie Cibrian, Lincoln Diaz Balart, Mario Diaz Balart, Albio Sieres, Robert Menendez, Otto Rich, Elizabeth Rebozo, Ana De Armas, Sisi Fleites, Ileana Ros, Elizabeth Caballero, Ana Quincoces Rodriguez, Raul Malo, Johnny Goudie, and Lisandra de la Cruz.

By: Miami

Miami — Sun, 29 Apr 2012 21:43:04 +0000

@#16Wal D, What you’re saying is not true. I have lived most of my life in Miami, and the majority of the Cubans in Miami look European. They aren’t denying anything because the majority of the Cubans in Miami don’t have any African or Native American admixture.

By: Walt D

Walt D — Sat, 28 Apr 2012 02:23:14 +0000

I have been to Miami and met many Cuban Americans, and to me they struck me as visibly mixed race. Some of the elite Cuban Americans from cities like Coral Gables looked like unmixed Euorpeans, of the Mediterranean variety. But many of the Cuban Americans I met had obvious African and/or Native American admixture, despite the fact they would vehemently deny this. Just my thoughts. Still, Cuban Americans are on average much “Whiter” looking than Mexican Americans and Guatemalans and El Salvadorans.

By: James

James — Thu, 26 Apr 2012 14:39:47 +0000

It should be noted that most spanish ancestry in Cuba is from the Canary Islands, which is not really Spanish, since Canarians have indigenous “Guanche” admixture, of Berber origin, which is not present in Spaniards. In fact Canarians are about 18% indigenous. Also it should be noted that “African” here at low K’s and without another african sample, works as north-african, and not real sub-saharan.

By: Walter

Walter — Thu, 26 Apr 2012 11:21:40 +0000

Hi, sorry if this is written ackwardly, English isn’t my first language.

The two regions of Spain that sent the most colonists to the Americas in colonial times were Extremadura and Andalucía, especially the area around Seville. Those two regions are very over represented among colonists.
Extremadura with a population of half a million people in 1492, may have sent upt to 200 thousand during the next two centuries. Its population had been reduced by half at the end of the XVII century, no one knows how much because of emmigration and how much because of the war around the Spanish Portuguese border. Pizarro was from Extremadura.

After colonial times, there was massive emmigration in the second half of the XIX century and early XX century to Cuba and Argentina, back then Cuba was very prosperous because of sugar (and later also USA tourism) and Argentina because of its agricultural exports (Argentina became wealthy right after the invention of the Beefer ship.
At that time, most of the immigrants were from the north, mainly Galicians, and also Asturians and Basques (Basques were also over represented in colonial times, and were often the elite)

Also, persecuted minorities may have been over represented as immigrants in the first years of the Spanish Colonial empire, and the first ones to arrive have a greater impact, the later immigrants breed with the descendents of the first ones.

The 2 big differences between Argentina and the USA are:

1)Argentina before 1870 had a typical latin american population, whites, mestizos, blacks, it was something in between Chile and Paraguay racially, with some blacks too. It was very sparsely populated, 1.800.000 people in a territory half the size of India, (the other half of Argentina was still in control of amerindians, who had become dangerous horse riders like the natives in the west of the USA.
So, the millions of European immigrants who came here from 1880 to 1940 came to a country not empty with just a few “savages” like NZ or Australia, or populated mainly by pure europeans and their slaves like the USA, they came to a racially mixed latin american country, no matter how sparsely populated it was, it wasn’t a complete desert.

2) Argentina received different immigrants, mainly Italians, Spaniards, followed by a heterogenous group of central and eastern europeans.

Another issue is that in Argentina the whites are middle class and have european fertility rates, the non whites from provinces which didn’t receive that much european immigration have far more offspring. And also descendants of Bolivians, Paraguayans, Chilean and Peruvian immigrants are well over 2.5 million in a country of 40 million people.

By: xfinity

xfinity — Tue, 24 Apr 2012 19:13:48 +0000

Please refer to my comments under “An Algorithm is just an Algorithm” which is an update to this blog entry.

By: Charles Nydorf

Charles Nydorf — Tue, 24 Apr 2012 12:36:59 +0000

@Dm
Thanks for calling my attention to 185delAG!
The introgression of 5382insC into the Ashkenazic population is estimated to have occurred between 1500 and 1600. This was a peaceful period for eastern Europe Jewry which was then concentrated in the Polish-Lithuanian Empire. The gene may have been introduced through conversions associated with the Novgorod Judaizing heresy. The converts, who were persecuted in Russia, sought refuge in the P-L Empire.

By: Razib Khan

Razib Khan — Tue, 24 Apr 2012 01:19:14 +0000

where is the midle-eastern (north-african and west-asia) in Iberians? – Or it looks average european at this level? And why is the south-asian componnent bigger in Utah white than in Iberians, if is more common in west-asia?

first, they weren’t in the sample. i wasn’t testing that question. as for the ‘south asian’ component, what that’s picking up is that there is a common element which spans indo-european populations, and drops off in south india and western europe. this shows up as ‘west asian’ in other runs.

By: iberian

iberian — Tue, 24 Apr 2012 00:19:25 +0000

It´s maybe a stupidy question, but… where is the midle-eastern (north-african and west-asia) in Iberians? – Or it looks average european at this level? And why is the south-asian componnent bigger in Utah white than in Iberians, if is more common in west-asia?

By: Dm

Dm — Mon, 23 Apr 2012 22:46:34 +0000

Good digging, Charles ! There are actually *two* BRCA1 mutations commonly found in Jewish “cancer families”. The one you looked up (traditionally known as 5382insC) is of Northern European origin indeed, and the Ashkenazi Jewish STR haplotypes appear to be derived from a Polish haplotype, most likely during the era of great pogroms in the XVII c. Of course 5382insC is absent from the Sephardic Jews, and from the Latin America.

The BRCA1 mutation I had in mind is more common, and more ancient, traditionally referred to as 185delAG. It (and the underlying STR haplogroup) is shared in Ashkenazi and Sephardi Jews, and for that matter in the Iraqi Jews too … and indeed in the Americas and in South Asia. The haplotype age, and the geographic distribution, are in good agreement, placing the emergence of the mutation to Mesopotamia after the Babylonian exile of 586 bc

By: Latifundiário

Latifundiário — Mon, 23 Apr 2012 21:16:19 +0000

Latin America is a world in itself. Brazil alone is a bigger territory than Continental United States and there’s more genetic diversity in Brazil than in the United States. There are more “pure’ Amerindians in Brazil than in the entire North America Region (Mexico, United States and Canada) because we have the Amazon. There are more Blacks and genuine African culture in places like Salvador da Bahia and Rio de Janeiro than in any Northern American city. We have a full contingent of Asian, Japanese genetics and there are more unmixed Brazilians of German ancestry in places in Southern Brazil than in little Switzerland and Gisele Bündchen (6th generation Brazilian) is the most successful top model of the world. The ignorance of US people about Brazil and Latin America is quite curious. You can never try to compare different countries in a big part of the world as the same homogeneous bloc, in the same way you can’t compare Bangladesh, Burma, Nepal, Australia, Singapore because they are different countries in size, population and history. Last but not least I would like to remember Dm from the first post that the the first US synagogue was built by people expelled from Brazil after the Protestant Northern European and the Sephardi Jews lost a long war in Brazil after they dared to attack our Glorious Realms, the Brazilian Portuguese language is a war language in our enchanting part of America where we still are (since 1500) commanded by one of us, a Macho President representative of our own type of “Euro”Brazilian power miscegenated to be dominant and hegemonic.

By: Humberto Fontova

Humberto Fontova — Mon, 23 Apr 2012 20:47:29 +0000

I’d love to see a similar study on “Italian”-Americans (many, if not most, are Sicilian, actually–like my in-laws.) Also ask fellow “Italian” Umberto Bossi of the “Northern League” if they claim Sicilians. Here’s a story on famous “white” Italian-American, Louis Prima, from my home town of New Orleans and whose parents came over on the same boats with the ancestors of some of my in-laws:

http://www.hoyhoy.com/artists/prima.htm

(Just hoping to stir things up! To make them as interesting and raucous as some of our intra-family gatherings!)

By: Steve Sailer

Steve Sailer — Mon, 23 Apr 2012 19:39:42 +0000

New York Cubans might tend to be people who don’t feel as welcome in Miami, perhaps because they tend to be less white than the Miami Cuban power elite.

I looked at Wikipedia’s lists of prominent Cuban-American politicians, most of the Floridians. For about a dozen who had pictures on Wikipedia, I noticed only one that, with my mulattodar turned up to eleven, might have struck me as possible a tiny bit sub-Saharan African. Everybody else looked like average American white people.

In contrast, I looked at pictures of post Jackie Robinson Cuban baseball players like Minnie Minoso and Tony Oliva. They tend to be pretty black. More recent American-raised Cuban ballplayers like Jose Canseco and Rafael Palmeiro tend to be pretty white, because they come from the exile class.

Something similar is true with Dominicans. Most Dominican ballplayers from the D.R. are quite black, but Dominicans in the U.S. tend to be mixed (American-born Alex Rodriguez is more representative of the color of the typical Dominican-American than Sammy Sosa).

By: Charles Nydorf

Charles Nydorf — Mon, 23 Apr 2012 19:07:08 +0000

I think that Dm is referring to the gene BRCA1. According to an article in the European Journal of Genetics ( 1 December 2010) this mutation first appeard in northern Europe about 1800 years ago. It entered the Ashkenazic Jewish gene pool between 400 and 500 years ago.

By: Dm

Dm — Mon, 23 Apr 2012 18:57:32 +0000

It’s been a modus operandi of imperial rulers of all epochs, to push disloyal ethnic and religious groups to the remote frontiers and colonies, where they would come to identify with the empires rather than to oppose them. Shakh Abbas and Joseph Stalin resettled warlike tribes in a remarkably similar manner, if 500 years apart. Great Britain offered American colonies to its dissidents, and Russian Empire resettled its dissidents such as the Molokans in the newly-conquered lands South of the Caucasus.

A purge of the imperial subjects of Jewish ancestry happened in many corners of the world too. This is how, for example, a common breast cancer-predisposing mutation, which dates back to the Babylonian Exile of the Jews, spread all across the globe, becoming the most common risk factor not only in Latin America, but also in India and Malaysia (presumably with the exiles from portugal). Russian Empire also barred Jews from its “sacred lands” but kept its frontier in Siberia and in the South open.

So it may be expected that any historic frontier / colonial population may be somewhat of an outlier…

By: Razib Khan

Razib Khan — Mon, 23 Apr 2012 18:30:17 +0000

#1, i’ve seen stuff like that, and the iberian ancestry in latin america looks atypical (aside from particular exceptions like you’ve mentioned).

#2, aside from mozabites the african samples don’t intersect with enough SNPs to do good ADMIXTURE. though there is enough for PCA, so i’ll check on that later.

By: Maju

Maju — Mon, 23 Apr 2012 17:53:00 +0000

You should include a Moroccan or otherwise native North African sample. Without a North African sample West Africans act as proxy for some of that North African ancestry that does exist in Iberia, specially the Western third (Portugal, Galicia, Extremadura, León, etc.) Doing that your analysis would become more precise and you could make better informed claims.

I was reading through all the entry and there was no mention to the rather surprising notable West African component in Iberians other than Basques. For my somewhat trained eye it is clear that this is a proxy for North African ancestry and not directly West African ancestry. This is demonstratedly also the case in Canary Islands, at least to a large extent, and, by extension in Cuba (which is nearly identical to your average Canarian), at least Cuba-1. Cuba-2 seems actually admixed at low levels and both seem to have some Amerindian ancestry not existent in Spain.

References or further reading at FWTWWA:
http://forwhattheywereweare.blogspot.com.es/2011/12/north-african-genetics-through-prism-of.html
http://forwhattheywereweare.blogspot.com.es/2011/04/africanness-of-europeans-and-west.html
http://forwhattheywereweare.blogspot.com.es/2011/04/canarians-nw-africans-iberians-etc-from.html

By: Dm

Dm — Mon, 23 Apr 2012 15:00:51 +0000

How confident are we that the extant population of Spain is a good match to the ancestors of the white Latin Americans? As far as I understand, the colonies have been settled by disproportionate numbers of Iberian conversos and moriscos (Sephardic Jews and Muslim Moors who were forced to convert to Christianity but then still purged from the “sacred soil of the Catholic Monarchies”). Crypto-Sephardic residents of Nuevo Leon / New Mexico are particularly well documented at a genetic level. The first US synagogue, in Rhode Island, has been built by South American Sephardim. And the fortifications of San Juan, PR, have been designed and built by Moors.

These people, possibly with a greater North African heritage, were being expelled out of the ancestral lands anyway. Many went to the Maghreb of course, but many chose the Americas.