Comments on: The Guardian Gets It Wrong http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/03/10/the-guardian-gets-it-wrong/ Tue, 27 Sep 2011 17:28:30 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.2 By: Paul Murray http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/03/10/the-guardian-gets-it-wrong/#comment-14885 Paul Murray Wed, 11 Mar 2009 21:04:44 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/03/10/the-guardian-gets-it-wrong/#comment-14885 What is incorrect about this extract? * Human pollution is turning the seas into acid Well, isn't it? A very weak acid to be sure, but if it has a PH less than 7, it has free hydrogen ions and is an acid. * the coming decades will recreate conditions not seen on Earth since the time of the dinosaurs Well, arguably this could mean that "the acidity will be such that it hassn't been ...", or it might mean "the acidity will *cause* stuff thay hasn't been seen ..." But again - what's actually false about this? I was under the impression that we did indeed face a doomsday scenario where acidity and the shutting down of deep ocean currents will turn the ocean into stagnant acid, and all life on earth except for anerobic bacteria will die. What is incorrect about this extract?

* Human pollution is turning the seas into acid

Well, isn’t it? A very weak acid to be sure, but if it has a PH less than 7, it has free hydrogen ions and is an acid.

* the coming decades will recreate conditions not seen on Earth since the time of the dinosaurs

Well, arguably this could mean that “the acidity will be such that it hassn’t been …”, or it might mean “the acidity will *cause* stuff thay hasn’t been seen …”

But again – what’s actually false about this? I was under the impression that we did indeed face a doomsday scenario where acidity and the shutting down of deep ocean currents will turn the ocean into stagnant acid, and all life on earth except for anerobic bacteria will die.

]]> By: James Hrynyshyn http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/03/10/the-guardian-gets-it-wrong/#comment-14888 James Hrynyshyn Wed, 11 Mar 2009 12:52:33 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/03/10/the-guardian-gets-it-wrong/#comment-14888 I disagree. Yes, it is a lot more complicated that just "turning more acidic," but the fact remains that pH is dropping and therefore the oceans are less basic than they used to be, by about 0.1 pH. Given how much dumbing down of such a subject is necessary for popular media, I can live with, and do in fact employ, this shorthand. If you have a concise and simple way to explain what's going on without using the language of pH, let's hear it. I disagree. Yes, it is a lot more complicated that just “turning more acidic,” but the fact remains that pH is dropping and therefore the oceans are less basic than they used to be, by about 0.1 pH.

Given how much dumbing down of such a subject is necessary for popular media, I can live with, and do in fact employ, this shorthand. If you have a concise and simple way to explain what’s going on without using the language of pH, let’s hear it.

]]> By: Dunc http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/03/10/the-guardian-gets-it-wrong/#comment-14887 Dunc Wed, 11 Mar 2009 07:46:18 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/03/10/the-guardian-gets-it-wrong/#comment-14887 I don't know. I give the average person more credit than that. Most who've had a fish tank know a little about pH. Have some faith in the intellect of nonscientists. People at large are smarter than we expect. And what percentage of the population have kept fish properly? It's not their intellect I doubt, it's their education - a completely different matter. It simply doesn't matter how smart you are if you haven't received the necessary education. My intelligence may be genetic, but my understanding of chemistry certainly isn't. I don’t know. I give the average person more credit than that. Most who’ve had a fish tank know a little about pH. Have some faith in the intellect of nonscientists. People at large are smarter than we expect.

And what percentage of the population have kept fish properly? It’s not their intellect I doubt, it’s their education – a completely different matter. It simply doesn’t matter how smart you are if you haven’t received the necessary education. My intelligence may be genetic, but my understanding of chemistry certainly isn’t.

]]> By: Ashutosh http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/03/10/the-guardian-gets-it-wrong/#comment-14886 Ashutosh Tue, 10 Mar 2009 19:29:55 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/03/10/the-guardian-gets-it-wrong/#comment-14886 The last time I dipped a litmus paper into the ocean it turned violet The last time I dipped a litmus paper into the ocean it turned violet

]]> By: Wes Rolley http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/03/10/the-guardian-gets-it-wrong/#comment-14891 Wes Rolley Tue, 10 Mar 2009 19:07:29 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/03/10/the-guardian-gets-it-wrong/#comment-14891 The real problem with this is that such overly broad assertions will end up being more grist for the denier's information mill, a grand example of how those "scientists" are trying to scare us all into Socialism with their wild exaggerations. In the meantime, I have not heard that our wonderfulof-it Senate has dropped the holds on the Holdren and Lubchencho appointments. I guess that this is how we "make scientific decisions based on fact and not ideology." The real problem with this is that such overly broad assertions will end up being more grist for the denier’s information mill, a grand example of how those “scientists” are trying to scare us all into Socialism with their wild exaggerations.

In the meantime, I have not heard that our wonderfulof-it Senate has dropped the holds on the Holdren and Lubchencho appointments.

I guess that this is how we “make scientific decisions based on fact and not ideology.”

]]> By: benthos http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/03/10/the-guardian-gets-it-wrong/#comment-14890 benthos Tue, 10 Mar 2009 16:38:42 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/03/10/the-guardian-gets-it-wrong/#comment-14890 The idea that oceans are "turning to acid" has become a very popular misconception. There IS a big difference and we have to do a better job at getting the correct information out to the public. The idea that oceans are “turning to acid” has become a very popular misconception. There IS a big difference and we have to do a better job at getting the correct information out to the public.

]]> By: russ http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/03/10/the-guardian-gets-it-wrong/#comment-14889 russ Tue, 10 Mar 2009 16:15:45 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/03/10/the-guardian-gets-it-wrong/#comment-14889 Oh come on... might we be any more pedantic or banal... Acid, in this case, refers to a relative concept that being that things are either more or less acid... the concept of more or less basic doesnt convey the message as well and that is the point to get the message across. As for science needing to be precise, NIT picking does not define precise save in school and thankfully all but a very few always leave school and grow up. Oh come on… might we be any more pedantic or banal… Acid, in this case, refers to a relative concept that being that things are either more or less acid… the concept of more or less basic doesnt convey the message as well and that is the point to get the message across.

As for science needing to be precise, NIT picking does not define precise save in school and thankfully all but a very few always leave school and grow up.

]]> By: Ken http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/03/10/the-guardian-gets-it-wrong/#comment-14894 Ken Tue, 10 Mar 2009 15:37:30 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/03/10/the-guardian-gets-it-wrong/#comment-14894 @ Dunc I don't know. I give the average person more credit than that. Most who've had a fish tank know a little about pH. Have some faith in the intellect of nonscientists. People at large are smarter than we expect. @ Dunc

I don’t know. I give the average person more credit than that. Most who’ve had a fish tank know a little about pH. Have some faith in the intellect of nonscientists. People at large are smarter than we expect.

]]> By: Dunc http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/03/10/the-guardian-gets-it-wrong/#comment-14893 Dunc Tue, 10 Mar 2009 15:28:02 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/03/10/the-guardian-gets-it-wrong/#comment-14893 The Guardian may be able to do better, but I suspect part of the problem may be that the majority of readers (and indeed journalists) lack the basic chemical knowledge to appreciate the difference. Most people simply don't know what "basic" means in this context. Heck, most people don't actually understand what "acidic" really means, either. It may be high school stuff to you and me, but to most people it's a complete mystery. The Guardian may be able to do better, but I suspect part of the problem may be that the majority of readers (and indeed journalists) lack the basic chemical knowledge to appreciate the difference. Most people simply don’t know what “basic” means in this context. Heck, most people don’t actually understand what “acidic” really means, either.

It may be high school stuff to you and me, but to most people it’s a complete mystery.

]]> By: Erasmussimo http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/03/10/the-guardian-gets-it-wrong/#comment-14892 Erasmussimo Tue, 10 Mar 2009 15:07:33 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/03/10/the-guardian-gets-it-wrong/#comment-14892 OK, so about a movie called "The Day After That" in which a character dives into the water and emerges as an acid-burned corpse? What gory good fun! Later on, we could a single droplet of spray reduce some poor victim to a bubbling puddle of goo. Even more fun! OK, so about a movie called “The Day After That” in which a character dives into the water and emerges as an acid-burned corpse? What gory good fun! Later on, we could a single droplet of spray reduce some poor victim to a bubbling puddle of goo. Even more fun!

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