Comments on: Egregious Behavior, A Skeleton Out Of The Closet, Lights Out, And Reason To Go Visit ScienceBlogs http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/03/27/egregious-behavior-a-skeleton-out-of-the-closet-lights-out-and-reason-to-go-visit-scienceblogs/ Where science collides with life, slams into culture, crashes with politics, and gets totaled. Tue, 27 Sep 2011 17:28:30 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: MadScientist http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/03/27/egregious-behavior-a-skeleton-out-of-the-closet-lights-out-and-reason-to-go-visit-scienceblogs/#comment-14922 MadScientist Sun, 29 Mar 2009 11:58:52 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/03/27/egregious-behavior-a-skeleton-out-of-the-closet-lights-out-and-reason-to-go-visit-scienceblogs/#comment-14922 I can't even pretend to be able to answer that question. I was walking down the street one day with a female friend and some emptyheaded goon in a hotrod slams on his breaks, pokes his head out the window, whistles and shouts "want a ride, baby?" I go "get lost you pig!" (and I won't mention what the gorilla said in turn), but my friend said she didn't mind that behavior at all. I wasn't going to tell my friend what to think about such things, but I told her I thought such behavior was a sign of a lack of education. So, where do we draw the line. Apparently I've also insulted some people by saying the most innocuous things (but I just assumed that some people have some sort of inferiority complex and feel a compunction to snarl at anything anyone says). I can’t even pretend to be able to answer that question. I was walking down the street one day with a female friend and some emptyheaded goon in a hotrod slams on his breaks, pokes his head out the window, whistles and shouts “want a ride, baby?” I go “get lost you pig!” (and I won’t mention what the gorilla said in turn), but my friend said she didn’t mind that behavior at all. I wasn’t going to tell my friend what to think about such things, but I told her I thought such behavior was a sign of a lack of education. So, where do we draw the line. Apparently I’ve also insulted some people by saying the most innocuous things (but I just assumed that some people have some sort of inferiority complex and feel a compunction to snarl at anything anyone says).

]]> By: Erasmussimo http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/03/27/egregious-behavior-a-skeleton-out-of-the-closet-lights-out-and-reason-to-go-visit-scienceblogs/#comment-14864 Erasmussimo Sat, 28 Mar 2009 04:45:06 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/03/27/egregious-behavior-a-skeleton-out-of-the-closet-lights-out-and-reason-to-go-visit-scienceblogs/#comment-14864 Strider, as I wrote earlier, I was offering some gross generalizations, only a first approximation of behavior. Indeed, there are a huge variety of sexual interests out there; there are women who take pleasure in being sexually tortured. My comment about sex and the "two way street" concerns the fact that sexual relationships in the professional world are often asymmetric. Strider, as I wrote earlier, I was offering some gross generalizations, only a first approximation of behavior. Indeed, there are a huge variety of sexual interests out there; there are women who take pleasure in being sexually tortured.

My comment about sex and the “two way street” concerns the fact that sexual relationships in the professional world are often asymmetric.

]]> By: Strider http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/03/27/egregious-behavior-a-skeleton-out-of-the-closet-lights-out-and-reason-to-go-visit-scienceblogs/#comment-14862 Strider Sat, 28 Mar 2009 03:23:49 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/03/27/egregious-behavior-a-skeleton-out-of-the-closet-lights-out-and-reason-to-go-visit-scienceblogs/#comment-14862 Erasmussimo Do you seriously believe that women only see sex as the "culmination of a mutually rewarding romance"? Do you seriously think that women don't enjoy the occasional "booty call"? You need to do some serious research, dude. Reading only, of course. Erasmussimo
Do you seriously believe that women only see sex as the “culmination of a mutually rewarding romance”? Do you seriously think that women don’t enjoy the occasional “booty call”? You need to do some serious research, dude. Reading only, of course.

]]> By: Strider http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/03/27/egregious-behavior-a-skeleton-out-of-the-closet-lights-out-and-reason-to-go-visit-scienceblogs/#comment-14861 Strider Sat, 28 Mar 2009 03:18:32 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/03/27/egregious-behavior-a-skeleton-out-of-the-closet-lights-out-and-reason-to-go-visit-scienceblogs/#comment-14861 Mk Perhaps I misunderstood. Sex is indeed a two way street and the "science hero" that Sheril encountered most likely had some previous success with his overtures at other meetings otherwise he probably wouldn't have considered phoning her. In my experience, women can be just as "bad" as men. I don't know Sheril at all but I feel badly for (what must have been) her profound disillusionment at receiving that call. Mk
Perhaps I misunderstood. Sex is indeed a two way street and the “science hero” that Sheril encountered most likely had some previous success with his overtures at other meetings otherwise he probably wouldn’t have considered phoning her. In my experience, women can be just as “bad” as men. I don’t know Sheril at all but I feel badly for (what must have been) her profound disillusionment at receiving that call.

]]> By: mk http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/03/27/egregious-behavior-a-skeleton-out-of-the-closet-lights-out-and-reason-to-go-visit-scienceblogs/#comment-14851 mk Fri, 27 Mar 2009 21:35:55 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/03/27/egregious-behavior-a-skeleton-out-of-the-closet-lights-out-and-reason-to-go-visit-scienceblogs/#comment-14851 Sorry, it just seemed you were genuinely surprised by the jerk who propositioned Sheril. You said: "I grimaced when I read about the fellow inviting Sheril to be “his next mistress”. Good lord, man, I thought, are you really so unfamiliar with women as to think that such a demeaning question would have any chance of success?" The truth is, while it is lame to you and me it does have a chance of success. That is why he asked. And lastly, sex is very much a two way street. Requiring free will from each participant. Sorry, it just seemed you were genuinely surprised by the jerk who propositioned Sheril.

You said: “I grimaced when I read about the fellow inviting Sheril to be “his next mistress”. Good lord, man, I thought, are you really so unfamiliar with women as to think that such a demeaning question would have any chance of success?”

The truth is, while it is lame to you and me it does have a chance of success. That is why he asked.

And lastly, sex is very much a two way street. Requiring free will from each participant.

]]> By: Erasmussimo http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/03/27/egregious-behavior-a-skeleton-out-of-the-closet-lights-out-and-reason-to-go-visit-scienceblogs/#comment-14850 Erasmussimo Fri, 27 Mar 2009 20:58:40 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/03/27/egregious-behavior-a-skeleton-out-of-the-closet-lights-out-and-reason-to-go-visit-scienceblogs/#comment-14850 Yes, certainly there are lots of different people in the world. I'm talking in gross generalizations, with the implicit assumption that there are millions of exceptions to the general run of things. Yes, certainly there are lots of different people in the world. I’m talking in gross generalizations, with the implicit assumption that there are millions of exceptions to the general run of things.

]]> By: mk http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/03/27/egregious-behavior-a-skeleton-out-of-the-closet-lights-out-and-reason-to-go-visit-scienceblogs/#comment-14849 mk Fri, 27 Mar 2009 20:41:30 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/03/27/egregious-behavior-a-skeleton-out-of-the-closet-lights-out-and-reason-to-go-visit-scienceblogs/#comment-14849 Erasmussimo , This may be hard to believe but there are women who respond positively to crass overtures. Not all women are "competent in the art of romance" nor do they care to be. What gives you the impression that women cannot also be as low rent, uncivilized, and crass as some men? This does not excuse anything, of course, but it is nevertheless true. Erasmussimo ,

This may be hard to believe but there are women who respond positively to crass overtures. Not all women are “competent in the art of romance” nor do they care to be. What gives you the impression that women cannot also be as low rent, uncivilized, and crass as some men?

This does not excuse anything, of course, but it is nevertheless true.

]]> By: Erasmussimo http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/03/27/egregious-behavior-a-skeleton-out-of-the-closet-lights-out-and-reason-to-go-visit-scienceblogs/#comment-14848 Erasmussimo Fri, 27 Mar 2009 20:35:06 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/03/27/egregious-behavior-a-skeleton-out-of-the-closet-lights-out-and-reason-to-go-visit-scienceblogs/#comment-14848 A further thought: is the problem that men devote too much attention to sex or is it that they are so *bad* at it? I grimaced when I read about the fellow inviting Sheril to be "his next mistress". Good lord, man, I thought, are you really so unfamiliar with women as to think that such a demeaning question would have any chance of success? Imagine a world in which all men were competent in the art of romance. In such a world, men would still pursue women, but they would do so with a restraint and gentility that no woman could find demeaning. In such a world, men would treat women as equals and would not breathe even a hint of sexuality until after the woman has first expressed some interest of her own. I concede that this is an idle fantasy, but I think it serves to make a crucial distinction: the problem here is not sexuality but the ruination of romance by male obtuseness. (I shall never forget the morning a colleague of mine came in after a hot date. It had been wonderful, she said, until at the end of a delightful dinner her date leaned over and told her that he would like to "f__k her brains right out of her head". Sort of ruined the mood. How can some guys exhibit such towering stupidity? I don't think we should be conceiving of the relationship between men and women in the real world in puritanical terms, as if sexual attraction were evil; I think we should be conceiving of it in terms of romance rather than sex. Romance is a two-way street that requires free will on the part of both parties; sex is a one-way street that suggests conquest. Romance is sex made civilized. So I put this question to female readers: suppose that all men saw sex as only the culmination of a mutually rewarding romance. Suppose that men were desirous of romance but only if it were genuine, from-the-heart romance for both parties. In such a fantasy world, do you think that women would need to be so wary of men? Do you think that professional relationships between men and women would be no less professional than those between people of the same gender? A further thought: is the problem that men devote too much attention to sex or is it that they are so *bad* at it? I grimaced when I read about the fellow inviting Sheril to be “his next mistress”. Good lord, man, I thought, are you really so unfamiliar with women as to think that such a demeaning question would have any chance of success?

Imagine a world in which all men were competent in the art of romance. In such a world, men would still pursue women, but they would do so with a restraint and gentility that no woman could find demeaning. In such a world, men would treat women as equals and would not breathe even a hint of sexuality until after the woman has first expressed some interest of her own. I concede that this is an idle fantasy, but I think it serves to make a crucial distinction: the problem here is not sexuality but the ruination of romance by male obtuseness. (I shall never forget the morning a colleague of mine came in after a hot date. It had been wonderful, she said, until at the end of a delightful dinner her date leaned over and told her that he would like to “f__k her brains right out of her head”. Sort of ruined the mood. How can some guys exhibit such towering stupidity?

I don’t think we should be conceiving of the relationship between men and women in the real world in puritanical terms, as if sexual attraction were evil; I think we should be conceiving of it in terms of romance rather than sex. Romance is a two-way street that requires free will on the part of both parties; sex is a one-way street that suggests conquest. Romance is sex made civilized.

So I put this question to female readers: suppose that all men saw sex as only the culmination of a mutually rewarding romance. Suppose that men were desirous of romance but only if it were genuine, from-the-heart romance for both parties. In such a fantasy world, do you think that women would need to be so wary of men? Do you think that professional relationships between men and women would be no less professional than those between people of the same gender?

]]> By: mk http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/03/27/egregious-behavior-a-skeleton-out-of-the-closet-lights-out-and-reason-to-go-visit-scienceblogs/#comment-14846 mk Fri, 27 Mar 2009 20:25:50 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/03/27/egregious-behavior-a-skeleton-out-of-the-closet-lights-out-and-reason-to-go-visit-scienceblogs/#comment-14846 Strider, I'm not sure I know why you're addressing me. It seems that we are in agreement. Strider, I’m not sure I know why you’re addressing me. It seems that we are in agreement.

]]> By: Strider http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/03/27/egregious-behavior-a-skeleton-out-of-the-closet-lights-out-and-reason-to-go-visit-scienceblogs/#comment-14845 Strider Fri, 27 Mar 2009 19:47:47 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/03/27/egregious-behavior-a-skeleton-out-of-the-closet-lights-out-and-reason-to-go-visit-scienceblogs/#comment-14845 Erasmussino Thanks for the advice but I think that many, if not most, of the males who read this blog and viewed that interesting picture can in fact have a conversation with an intelligent and beautiful woman without behaving like the priest "The Naughty Vicar" sketch because they find her sexually attractive. They can probably all chew gum and walk at the same time, too! I'm sorry it took an operation for you to fully realize your humanity. MK Make no mistake, I believe the conduct of the men in Sheril's stories disgusting, I find the "science hero's" conduct much more egregious and am saddened that Sheril had to endure that, but that doesn't mean that we're all that way. I don't apologize for being a man and having those kinds of feelings, as long as they remain feelings and do not translate into actions, because they're NORMAL. Erasmussino
Thanks for the advice but I think that many, if not most, of the males who read this blog and viewed that interesting picture can in fact have a conversation with an intelligent and beautiful woman without behaving like the priest “The Naughty Vicar” sketch because they find her sexually attractive. They can probably all chew gum and walk at the same time, too! I’m sorry it took an operation for you to fully realize your humanity.

MK
Make no mistake, I believe the conduct of the men in Sheril’s stories disgusting, I find the “science hero’s” conduct much more egregious and am saddened that Sheril had to endure that, but that doesn’t mean that we’re all that way. I don’t apologize for being a man and having those kinds of feelings, as long as they remain feelings and do not translate into actions, because they’re NORMAL.

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