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	<title>Comments on: To Hell In A Handbasket</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/04/03/to-hell-in-a-handbasket-2/</link>
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		<title>By: No Plan &#124; The Intersection &#124; Discover Magazine</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/04/03/to-hell-in-a-handbasket-2/#comment-15815</link>
		<dc:creator>No Plan &#124; The Intersection &#124; Discover Magazine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jan 2010 16:42:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/04/03/to-hell-in-a-handbasket-2/#comment-15815</guid>
		<description>[...] of invertebrates in the latest journal of Ocean and Coastal Management and am sad to report&#8211;as expected&#8211;the news is not [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of invertebrates in the latest journal of Ocean and Coastal Management and am sad to report&#8211;as expected&#8211;the news is not [...] </p>
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		<title>By: Here We Go Again &#124; The Intersection &#124; U Reader &#124; Your daily news stop station ...</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/04/03/to-hell-in-a-handbasket-2/#comment-15814</link>
		<dc:creator>Here We Go Again &#124; The Intersection &#124; U Reader &#124; Your daily news stop station ...</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 09:44:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/04/03/to-hell-in-a-handbasket-2/#comment-15814</guid>
		<description>[...] pronounced it before, I&#8217;ll contend it again, the oceans have been going to hell in a handbasket. Sad, but not news [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] pronounced it before, I&#8217;ll contend it again, the oceans have been going to hell in a handbasket. Sad, but not news [...] </p>
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		<title>By: Here We Go Again &#124; The Intersection &#124; Discover Magazine</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/04/03/to-hell-in-a-handbasket-2/#comment-15813</link>
		<dc:creator>Here We Go Again &#124; The Intersection &#124; Discover Magazine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 18:47:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/04/03/to-hell-in-a-handbasket-2/#comment-15813</guid>
		<description>[...] said it before, I&#8217;ll say it again, our oceans are going to hell in a handbasket. Sad, but not news to anyone [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] said it before, I&#8217;ll say it again, our oceans are going to hell in a handbasket. Sad, but not news to anyone [...] </p>
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		<title>By: WaterNotes &#187; Carnival of the Blue #24</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/04/03/to-hell-in-a-handbasket-2/#comment-15812</link>
		<dc:creator>WaterNotes &#187; Carnival of the Blue #24</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 May 2009 22:43:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/04/03/to-hell-in-a-handbasket-2/#comment-15812</guid>
		<description>[...] factor of dolphins, who are really quite aggressive - and boy do I agree) and Discover&#8217;s The Intersection on overfishing of sea cucumbers. (I didnt know about that one either.) You can read more about sea cucumbers and their ups and downs [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] factor of dolphins, who are really quite aggressive &#8211; and boy do I agree) and Discover&#8217;s The Intersection on overfishing of sea cucumbers. (I didnt know about that one either.) You can read more about sea cucumbers and their ups and downs [...] </p>
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		<title>By: Phaedrus</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/04/03/to-hell-in-a-handbasket-2/#comment-15811</link>
		<dc:creator>Phaedrus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Apr 2009 14:13:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/04/03/to-hell-in-a-handbasket-2/#comment-15811</guid>
		<description>An interesting article on human intervention in ecosystems :

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/apr/03/meat-ants-cane-toad-cull-australia

No scientist would ever recommend the actions taken, but scientists are rarely the ones making these decisions.  A sound desire to maintain the integrity of our biosphere, and a healthy humility with regards to the scope or our knowledge are a prerequisite to responsible and positive actions</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An interesting article on human intervention in ecosystems :</p>
<p><a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/apr/03/meat-ants-cane-toad-cull-australia" rel="nofollow">http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/apr/03/meat-ants-cane-toad-cull-australia</a></p>
<p>No scientist would ever recommend the actions taken, but scientists are rarely the ones making these decisions.  A sound desire to maintain the integrity of our biosphere, and a healthy humility with regards to the scope or our knowledge are a prerequisite to responsible and positive actions</p>
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		<title>By: MadScientist</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/04/03/to-hell-in-a-handbasket-2/#comment-15810</link>
		<dc:creator>MadScientist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Apr 2009 03:08:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/04/03/to-hell-in-a-handbasket-2/#comment-15810</guid>
		<description>Not much changes unfortunately.  I remember reading John Steinbeck&#039;s &quot;Cannery Row&quot; - even in Steinbeck&#039;s era the fish were already driven to extinction and things have not improved much in the past 80 years.  People make a living out of cultivating some animals (for example trout and salmon), but those sustainable operations are simply dwarfed by the &quot;grab whatever you can while it&#039;s still there&quot; operations.  What happens when fish stocks dwindle due to overfishing? The sharks, dolphins, and seals get blamed and then you have morons going out and killing sharks dolphins and seals; somehow humans are never to blame for the disasters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not much changes unfortunately.  I remember reading John Steinbeck&#8217;s &#8220;Cannery Row&#8221; &#8211; even in Steinbeck&#8217;s era the fish were already driven to extinction and things have not improved much in the past 80 years.  People make a living out of cultivating some animals (for example trout and salmon), but those sustainable operations are simply dwarfed by the &#8220;grab whatever you can while it&#8217;s still there&#8221; operations.  What happens when fish stocks dwindle due to overfishing? The sharks, dolphins, and seals get blamed and then you have morons going out and killing sharks dolphins and seals; somehow humans are never to blame for the disasters.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/04/03/to-hell-in-a-handbasket-2/#comment-15809</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Apr 2009 15:43:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/04/03/to-hell-in-a-handbasket-2/#comment-15809</guid>
		<description>Humans are as selfish as any other species, and far more destructive than most. Environmentalists have to convince people with real world examples of how losing bio-diversity will adversely affect their lives and lower their standard of living, or nothing will get done publicly. We may not have any money to do anything anyway...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Humans are as selfish as any other species, and far more destructive than most. Environmentalists have to convince people with real world examples of how losing bio-diversity will adversely affect their lives and lower their standard of living, or nothing will get done publicly. We may not have any money to do anything anyway&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Phaedrus</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/04/03/to-hell-in-a-handbasket-2/#comment-15808</link>
		<dc:creator>Phaedrus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Apr 2009 15:40:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/04/03/to-hell-in-a-handbasket-2/#comment-15808</guid>
		<description>I agree, but it needs to be built broad, grass-roots consensus.  There will always be right wing and left wing interests that refuse to compromise on their respective ideologies, but eventually we need to inculcate our culture with a &quot;land ethic&quot; (see Aldo Leopold).  Take that and mate it to the idea that we should couch big decisions with a long term perspective and we can chart a positive path to the future.

Any solution put in place that does not have these components is doomed to eventual failure.  I understand the difficulties in getting people of disparate views to agree - and the real possibility that personal histories may make agreement for current actors impossible.

So much of our science seems to follow the road map of the underpants gnomes :

step 1 - do science
step 2 - ?
step 3 - sound management practices

Science&#039;s role in this process is to develop practical (economically, socially) metrics and  solutions for saving our biodiversity (step 1).  But this will be so much empty writing until our populace has a broad land use ethic (step 2 ?).  From this we&#039;ll create a pool of actors who are equipped and motivated to create and implement sound, long term resource management (step 3).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree, but it needs to be built broad, grass-roots consensus.  There will always be right wing and left wing interests that refuse to compromise on their respective ideologies, but eventually we need to inculcate our culture with a &#8220;land ethic&#8221; (see Aldo Leopold).  Take that and mate it to the idea that we should couch big decisions with a long term perspective and we can chart a positive path to the future.</p>
<p>Any solution put in place that does not have these components is doomed to eventual failure.  I understand the difficulties in getting people of disparate views to agree &#8211; and the real possibility that personal histories may make agreement for current actors impossible.</p>
<p>So much of our science seems to follow the road map of the underpants gnomes :</p>
<p>step 1 &#8211; do science<br />
step 2 &#8211; ?<br />
step 3 &#8211; sound management practices</p>
<p>Science&#8217;s role in this process is to develop practical (economically, socially) metrics and  solutions for saving our biodiversity (step 1).  But this will be so much empty writing until our populace has a broad land use ethic (step 2 ?).  From this we&#8217;ll create a pool of actors who are equipped and motivated to create and implement sound, long term resource management (step 3).</p>
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		<title>By: Sheril Kirshenbaum</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/04/03/to-hell-in-a-handbasket-2/#comment-15807</link>
		<dc:creator>Sheril Kirshenbaum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Apr 2009 15:14:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/04/03/to-hell-in-a-handbasket-2/#comment-15807</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;1. top down by an enlightened, progressive government/dictator
2. bottom up, by and educated, involved populace

only # 2 is sustainable&lt;/blockquote&gt;We need to achieve balance across levels of governance.  It&#039;s not either/or but both.  Local level management is necessary, but gets increasingly more difficult by scaling out and adding heterogeneous actors.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>1. top down by an enlightened, progressive government/dictator<br />
2. bottom up, by and educated, involved populace</p>
<p>only # 2 is sustainable</p></blockquote>
<p>We need to achieve balance across levels of governance.  It&#8217;s not either/or but both.  Local level management is necessary, but gets increasingly more difficult by scaling out and adding heterogeneous actors.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Phaedrus</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/04/03/to-hell-in-a-handbasket-2/#comment-15806</link>
		<dc:creator>Phaedrus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Apr 2009 15:10:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/04/03/to-hell-in-a-handbasket-2/#comment-15806</guid>
		<description>(that should read &quot;implement responsible biological management&quot;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(that should read &#8220;implement responsible biological management&#8221;)</p>
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