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	<title>Comments on: PZ Myers&#8217; Review of UA&#8230;</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/07/08/pz-myers-review-of-ua/</link>
	<description>Where science collides with life, slams into culture, crashes with politics, and gets totaled.</description>
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		<title>By: Jim Lippard</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/07/08/pz-myers-review-of-ua/comment-page-3/#comment-26031</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Lippard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 20:40:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/07/08/pz-myers-review-of-ua/#comment-26031</guid>
		<description>It appears an answer to my questions in #136 is not forthcoming.

I am disappointed that I was singled out for criticism after my admission of and apology for an error, as though that was a weakness to be attacked, and then that error, which I take responsibility for, was described as having been led astray by misrepresentations by others.  I am further disappointed that my error was apparently misdescribed as &quot;various false claims,&quot; and that the substance of the discussion in which it took place was ignored.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It appears an answer to my questions in #136 is not forthcoming.</p>
<p>I am disappointed that I was singled out for criticism after my admission of and apology for an error, as though that was a weakness to be attacked, and then that error, which I take responsibility for, was described as having been led astray by misrepresentations by others.  I am further disappointed that my error was apparently misdescribed as &#8220;various false claims,&#8221; and that the substance of the discussion in which it took place was ignored.</p>
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		<title>By: John Kwok</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/07/08/pz-myers-review-of-ua/comment-page-3/#comment-24756</link>
		<dc:creator>John Kwok</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 15:00:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/07/08/pz-myers-review-of-ua/#comment-24756</guid>
		<description>@ Ophelia -

I actually have better things to do with my time than asking them, including Kitcher, whom I have met in person (We apparently have one interest in common aside from the evolution vs. creation debate, and we&#039;re really more interested in discussing that other interest.).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Ophelia -</p>
<p>I actually have better things to do with my time than asking them, including Kitcher, whom I have met in person (We apparently have one interest in common aside from the evolution vs. creation debate, and we&#8217;re really more interested in discussing that other interest.).</p>
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		<title>By: Ophelia Benson</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/07/08/pz-myers-review-of-ua/comment-page-3/#comment-24540</link>
		<dc:creator>Ophelia Benson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 17:35:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/07/08/pz-myers-review-of-ua/#comment-24540</guid>
		<description>You may ask him? Why the uncertainty? Why not just ask him? And Carl, and Ken? They&#039;re your friends - so ask them already.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You may ask him? Why the uncertainty? Why not just ask him? And Carl, and Ken? They&#8217;re your friends &#8211; so ask them already.</p>
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		<title>By: The Inoculated Mind &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Happy Birthday Nicola Tesla</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/07/08/pz-myers-review-of-ua/comment-page-3/#comment-23963</link>
		<dc:creator>The Inoculated Mind &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Happy Birthday Nicola Tesla</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 16:48:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/07/08/pz-myers-review-of-ua/#comment-23963</guid>
		<description>[...] sparks may be flying elsewhere in the science blogosphere, Google reminds us that today is Nikola [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] sparks may be flying elsewhere in the science blogosphere, Google reminds us that today is Nikola [...]</p>
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		<title>By: John Kwok</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/07/08/pz-myers-review-of-ua/comment-page-3/#comment-23940</link>
		<dc:creator>John Kwok</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 16:05:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/07/08/pz-myers-review-of-ua/#comment-23940</guid>
		<description>@ Peter -

All they would probably tell me is that they cited previous polling data which seems to be confirmed by the latest poll published last week in the Guardian. Perhaps Professor Philip Kitcher - who is a professor of philosophy at Columbia University - might have access to such data. If he hasn&#039;t gone away yet for summer vacation, I may ask him, and get back to you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Peter -</p>
<p>All they would probably tell me is that they cited previous polling data which seems to be confirmed by the latest poll published last week in the Guardian. Perhaps Professor Philip Kitcher &#8211; who is a professor of philosophy at Columbia University &#8211; might have access to such data. If he hasn&#8217;t gone away yet for summer vacation, I may ask him, and get back to you.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Beattie</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/07/08/pz-myers-review-of-ua/comment-page-3/#comment-23937</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Beattie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 15:55:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/07/08/pz-myers-review-of-ua/#comment-23937</guid>
		<description>&#187; John Kwok:
&lt;i&gt;I don’t know if such data does exist.&lt;/i&gt;

Then perhaps you shouldn&#039;t quote it in support of your position. But you said you could ask Ken and/or Carl about it. Please do. If this kind of data exists, then I&#039;m very much interested in seeing it, as it would obviously change one or two things in this debate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&raquo; John Kwok:<br />
<i>I don’t know if such data does exist.</i></p>
<p>Then perhaps you shouldn&#8217;t quote it in support of your position. But you said you could ask Ken and/or Carl about it. Please do. If this kind of data exists, then I&#8217;m very much interested in seeing it, as it would obviously change one or two things in this debate.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Mooney graduates to crank &#171; Skepacabra</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/07/08/pz-myers-review-of-ua/comment-page-3/#comment-23839</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Mooney graduates to crank &#171; Skepacabra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 07:33:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/07/08/pz-myers-review-of-ua/#comment-23839</guid>
		<description>[...] personal criticisms alone and focused on his legitimate criticisms of the conclusions in the book. Mooney then just basically told people to ignore what Myers says because Myers is just a bitter &amp;#82...who couldn&#8217;t take being personally singled out as the problem in the book. But if Mooney was [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] personal criticisms alone and focused on his legitimate criticisms of the conclusions in the book. Mooney then just basically told people to ignore what Myers says because Myers is just a bitter &#82&#8230;who couldn&#8217;t take being personally singled out as the problem in the book. But if Mooney was [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Lippard</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/07/08/pz-myers-review-of-ua/comment-page-3/#comment-23803</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Lippard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 03:37:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/07/08/pz-myers-review-of-ua/#comment-23803</guid>
		<description>I apologized for my apparently erroneous statement that UA doesn&#039;t comment on death threats against Webster Cook, though I was also referring to the death threats against P.Z. Myers.  Were those mentioned?  The original post says that I made &quot;various false claims,&quot; plural, about the book--what else did I get wrong?  Did I misrepresent the authors&#039; views about accomodationism?

I&#039;ll happily correct my mistakes, and I certainly admit that it&#039;s far better to read firsthand before commenting on a book rather than relying on secondhand reports.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I apologized for my apparently erroneous statement that UA doesn&#8217;t comment on death threats against Webster Cook, though I was also referring to the death threats against P.Z. Myers.  Were those mentioned?  The original post says that I made &#8220;various false claims,&#8221; plural, about the book&#8211;what else did I get wrong?  Did I misrepresent the authors&#8217; views about accomodationism?</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll happily correct my mistakes, and I certainly admit that it&#8217;s far better to read firsthand before commenting on a book rather than relying on secondhand reports.</p>
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		<title>By: John Kwok</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/07/08/pz-myers-review-of-ua/comment-page-3/#comment-23795</link>
		<dc:creator>John Kwok</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 03:07:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/07/08/pz-myers-review-of-ua/#comment-23795</guid>
		<description>@ Peter -

I&#039;m not a sociologist interested in the intersection between religion and science. I don&#039;t know if such data does exist. However, I think it is worth noting that several expatriate Britons who are noted philosophers and historians of science have expressed well-considered opinions stating that there may be a backlash against Militant Atheism amongst their fellow Britons.  I think the latest poll published in the Guardian merely reaffirms what Ken Miller and Carl Zimmer have pointed out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Peter -</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not a sociologist interested in the intersection between religion and science. I don&#8217;t know if such data does exist. However, I think it is worth noting that several expatriate Britons who are noted philosophers and historians of science have expressed well-considered opinions stating that there may be a backlash against Militant Atheism amongst their fellow Britons.  I think the latest poll published in the Guardian merely reaffirms what Ken Miller and Carl Zimmer have pointed out.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Beattie</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/07/08/pz-myers-review-of-ua/comment-page-3/#comment-23728</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Beattie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 23:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/07/08/pz-myers-review-of-ua/#comment-23728</guid>
		<description>@ John Kwok:

What you think is reasonable to assume is, I&#039;m sorry to say, neither here nor there if you have no data to show for it. You did, however, make a specific claim about data:

&lt;blockquote&gt;In 2008 both Ken Miller and Carl Zimmer - at separate talks given months apart - presented polling data showing that approximately 40 percent of Britons reject the validity of evolution and the importance of Darwin’s work, attributing this to militant atheism as espoused by Dawkins and Hitchens, among others.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I would dearly like to see &lt;i&gt;the data&lt;/i&gt; that attribute the rejection of evolution, at least in part, to militant atheism. Do you think you could get your hands on those data?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ John Kwok:</p>
<p>What you think is reasonable to assume is, I&#8217;m sorry to say, neither here nor there if you have no data to show for it. You did, however, make a specific claim about data:</p>
<blockquote><p>In 2008 both Ken Miller and Carl Zimmer &#8211; at separate talks given months apart &#8211; presented polling data showing that approximately 40 percent of Britons reject the validity of evolution and the importance of Darwin’s work, attributing this to militant atheism as espoused by Dawkins and Hitchens, among others.</p></blockquote>
<p>I would dearly like to see <i>the data</i> that attribute the rejection of evolution, at least in part, to militant atheism. Do you think you could get your hands on those data?</p>
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