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	<title>Comments on: Why Truth Loses</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/11/07/why-truth-loses/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/11/07/why-truth-loses/</link>
	<description>Where science collides with life, slams into culture, crashes with politics, and gets totaled.</description>
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		<title>By: Why Truth Loses &#124; the Intersection &#124; Discover Magazine &#171; miasfunjournal</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/11/07/why-truth-loses/#comment-35884</link>
		<dc:creator>Why Truth Loses &#124; the Intersection &#124; Discover Magazine &#171; miasfunjournal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 01:20:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=4058#comment-35884</guid>
		<description>[...] The discussion, focusing on Denialism , began Thursday with a review from Mooney that was mostly laudatory, but raised a few good questions. Specter responded, and Mooney weighed in again on Friday morning; we&#8217;re now awaiting a fourth &#8230;This Blog [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The discussion, focusing on Denialism , began Thursday with a review from Mooney that was mostly laudatory, but raised a few good questions. Specter responded, and Mooney weighed in again on Friday morning; we&#8217;re now awaiting a fourth &#8230;This Blog [...]</p>
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		<title>By: magistramorous</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/11/07/why-truth-loses/#comment-35392</link>
		<dc:creator>magistramorous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 19:13:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=4058#comment-35392</guid>
		<description>Only now am I beginning to understand why truth loses. At first, I thought that the Buddhists I work with and, especially, my own friends would be on my side in the fight against young-earth creationism. Sadly, these people tell me that one person&#039;s opinion on the age of the earth is as valid as the next, that they don&#039;t care about the age of the earth, that they have better things to do, etc. And these are people who work in biotech!!! I can only imagine what people of no scientific training/education are thinking. It&#039;s a sad and lonely life being a science advocate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Only now am I beginning to understand why truth loses. At first, I thought that the Buddhists I work with and, especially, my own friends would be on my side in the fight against young-earth creationism. Sadly, these people tell me that one person&#8217;s opinion on the age of the earth is as valid as the next, that they don&#8217;t care about the age of the earth, that they have better things to do, etc. And these are people who work in biotech!!! I can only imagine what people of no scientific training/education are thinking. It&#8217;s a sad and lonely life being a science advocate.</p>
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		<title>By: bad Jim</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/11/07/why-truth-loses/#comment-35368</link>
		<dc:creator>bad Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 09:30:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=4058#comment-35368</guid>
		<description>If I recall aright, Milton had as low a regard for innocence as Twain. Pussyfooting gets us nowhere. For whatever issue we espouse we need to be out, loud and proud. If you&#039;re afraid to be a target you give your followers nothing to aim at.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If I recall aright, Milton had as low a regard for innocence as Twain. Pussyfooting gets us nowhere. For whatever issue we espouse we need to be out, loud and proud. If you&#8217;re afraid to be a target you give your followers nothing to aim at.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/11/07/why-truth-loses/#comment-35348</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 00:04:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=4058#comment-35348</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt; I wonder who is willing to spend money to create the “science defenders network”?&lt;/i&gt;

I would look to the emerging interests looking for progressive policies regarding climate change. Some of those interests are not very established, like solar energy. But &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/cisco-wants-to-be-everywhere-in-the-smart-grid-4693/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;look at all the names in this article, for instance&lt;/a&gt;. These companies all have an interest in accurate science winning out, plus who could fault them for supporting it? Especially if we&#039;re talking about reputable scientists. (My two cents anyway...)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i> I wonder who is willing to spend money to create the “science defenders network”?</i></p>
<p>I would look to the emerging interests looking for progressive policies regarding climate change. Some of those interests are not very established, like solar energy. But <a href="http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/cisco-wants-to-be-everywhere-in-the-smart-grid-4693/" rel="nofollow">look at all the names in this article, for instance</a>. These companies all have an interest in accurate science winning out, plus who could fault them for supporting it? Especially if we&#8217;re talking about reputable scientists. (My two cents anyway&#8230;)</p>
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		<title>By: Mary</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/11/07/why-truth-loses/#comment-35345</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Nov 2009 22:41:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=4058#comment-35345</guid>
		<description>Agreed, there&#039;s no current mechanism for science defenders.  I think that the science societies/organizations ought to either have them (AAAS, for example), or several of them should come together to fund it.  

I&#039;m kinda surprised Gates hasn&#039;t done it.  But that would only draw the same animosity the current associations with Gates yields.

http://food.change.org/blog/view/science_front_and_center_at_usda  Mistrust by association.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agreed, there&#8217;s no current mechanism for science defenders.  I think that the science societies/organizations ought to either have them (AAAS, for example), or several of them should come together to fund it.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m kinda surprised Gates hasn&#8217;t done it.  But that would only draw the same animosity the current associations with Gates yields.</p>
<p><a href="http://food.change.org/blog/view/science_front_and_center_at_usda" rel="nofollow">http://food.change.org/blog/view/science_front_and_center_at_usda</a>  Mistrust by association.</p>
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		<title>By: Don Monroe</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/11/07/why-truth-loses/#comment-35342</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Monroe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Nov 2009 22:00:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=4058#comment-35342</guid>
		<description>The Slate back-and-forth is a good format. For what it&#039;s worth, I agree with you on 1) and 2) and with Specter on 3).

But the really important issue is 4): will journalism save us? I&#039;d like to think that it will, mainly because &lt;i&gt;someone&lt;/i&gt; has to, but that may be wishful thinking (and self-serving at that, since I&#039;m a science writer). 

I acutely share your concern that the internet has made it easier than ever for people to surround themselves with opinions that reinforce their own, and that this is a particularly worrisome when traditional journalism is under such stress. I&#039;m still hoping for a new business model that provides authoritative, quality journalism.

Or maybe a charitable model? I donate to NPR, and subscribe to the New York Times in paper even though I&#039;ve often read the interesting stories the night before on the web. Will that be enough?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Slate back-and-forth is a good format. For what it&#8217;s worth, I agree with you on 1) and 2) and with Specter on 3).</p>
<p>But the really important issue is 4): will journalism save us? I&#8217;d like to think that it will, mainly because <i>someone</i> has to, but that may be wishful thinking (and self-serving at that, since I&#8217;m a science writer). </p>
<p>I acutely share your concern that the internet has made it easier than ever for people to surround themselves with opinions that reinforce their own, and that this is a particularly worrisome when traditional journalism is under such stress. I&#8217;m still hoping for a new business model that provides authoritative, quality journalism.</p>
<p>Or maybe a charitable model? I donate to NPR, and subscribe to the New York Times in paper even though I&#8217;ve often read the interesting stories the night before on the web. Will that be enough?</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Mooney</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/11/07/why-truth-loses/#comment-35337</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Mooney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Nov 2009 21:16:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=4058#comment-35337</guid>
		<description>What great comments. I wonder who is willing to spend money to create the &quot;science defenders network&quot;? Remember Marc Morano&#039;s salary? 

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/04/10/marc-moranos-salary-134000/

I&#039;ve said it before, and will say it again--there is no money, no career, in being a &quot;counter-Morano.&quot; So why would anyone do it?

Jon--yeah. I think Milton is wonderfuly poetic and stirring...and tragically naive, in retrospect.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What great comments. I wonder who is willing to spend money to create the &#8220;science defenders network&#8221;? Remember Marc Morano&#8217;s salary? </p>
<p><a href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/04/10/marc-moranos-salary-134000/" rel="nofollow">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/04/10/marc-moranos-salary-134000/</a></p>
<p>I&#8217;ve said it before, and will say it again&#8211;there is no money, no career, in being a &#8220;counter-Morano.&#8221; So why would anyone do it?</p>
<p>Jon&#8211;yeah. I think Milton is wonderfuly poetic and stirring&#8230;and tragically naive, in retrospect.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/11/07/why-truth-loses/#comment-35332</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Nov 2009 19:06:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=4058#comment-35332</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s the Areopagitica, but also &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.constitution.org/fed/federa10.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Federalist 10&lt;/a&gt;: 

&lt;blockquote&gt;By a faction, I understand a number of citizens, whether amounting to a majority or a minority of the whole, who are united and actuated by some common impulse of passion, or of interest, adversed to the rights of other citizens, or to the permanent and aggregate interests of the community...

...From the protection of different and unequal faculties of acquiring property, the possession of different degrees and kinds of property immediately results; and from the influence of these on the sentiments and views of the respective proprietors, ensues a division of the society into different interests and parties.

The latent causes of faction are thus sown in the nature of man; and we see them everywhere brought into different degrees of activity, according to the different circumstances of civil society. A zeal for different opinions concerning religion, concerning government, and many other points, as well of speculation as of practice; an attachment to different leaders ambitiously contending for pre-eminence and power; or to persons of other descriptions whose fortunes have been interesting to the human passions, have, in turn, divided mankind into parties, inflamed them with mutual animosity, and rendered them much more disposed to vex and oppress each other than to co-operate for their common good.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Madison and the rest were concerned about this sufficiently that this matter was debated quite a bit. They didn&#039;t say  &quot;let Truth and Falsehood grapple&quot; and that was that...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s the Areopagitica, but also <a href="http://www.constitution.org/fed/federa10.htm" rel="nofollow">Federalist 10</a>: </p>
<blockquote><p>By a faction, I understand a number of citizens, whether amounting to a majority or a minority of the whole, who are united and actuated by some common impulse of passion, or of interest, adversed to the rights of other citizens, or to the permanent and aggregate interests of the community&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8230;From the protection of different and unequal faculties of acquiring property, the possession of different degrees and kinds of property immediately results; and from the influence of these on the sentiments and views of the respective proprietors, ensues a division of the society into different interests and parties.</p>
<p>The latent causes of faction are thus sown in the nature of man; and we see them everywhere brought into different degrees of activity, according to the different circumstances of civil society. A zeal for different opinions concerning religion, concerning government, and many other points, as well of speculation as of practice; an attachment to different leaders ambitiously contending for pre-eminence and power; or to persons of other descriptions whose fortunes have been interesting to the human passions, have, in turn, divided mankind into parties, inflamed them with mutual animosity, and rendered them much more disposed to vex and oppress each other than to co-operate for their common good.</p></blockquote>
<p>Madison and the rest were concerned about this sufficiently that this matter was debated quite a bit. They didn&#8217;t say  &#8220;let Truth and Falsehood grapple&#8221; and that was that&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Mary</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/11/07/why-truth-loses/#comment-35327</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Nov 2009 17:34:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=4058#comment-35327</guid>
		<description>So, I attended one of the &quot;dialogs&quot; that the CDC held to discuss H1N1 vaccination strategies.  It was FULL of anti-science anti-vaxxers and conspiracy theorists.  The crank-bat-signal went out over their networks and the thing was largely dominated by their agenda.  First question when they opened the floor to questions: &quot;It is known that Baxter released...&quot; Sigh.  

I do blame scientists for not being there. And I spoke with a guy from CDC about that, and he said scientists have been absent from this sort of thing for years.  So part of this is our fault.  We&#039;re letting the conversation be driven by activated cranks.

On the other hand--let&#039;s say you open the conversation.  You&#039;re gonna get the same thing.  This kind of discussion doesn&#039;t draw the middle/undecided/unaligned.  I&#039;ve seen it.  

We need to create a science defenders network that works like the crank bat signals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, I attended one of the &#8220;dialogs&#8221; that the CDC held to discuss H1N1 vaccination strategies.  It was FULL of anti-science anti-vaxxers and conspiracy theorists.  The crank-bat-signal went out over their networks and the thing was largely dominated by their agenda.  First question when they opened the floor to questions: &#8220;It is known that Baxter released&#8230;&#8221; Sigh.  </p>
<p>I do blame scientists for not being there. And I spoke with a guy from CDC about that, and he said scientists have been absent from this sort of thing for years.  So part of this is our fault.  We&#8217;re letting the conversation be driven by activated cranks.</p>
<p>On the other hand&#8211;let&#8217;s say you open the conversation.  You&#8217;re gonna get the same thing.  This kind of discussion doesn&#8217;t draw the middle/undecided/unaligned.  I&#8217;ve seen it.  </p>
<p>We need to create a science defenders network that works like the crank bat signals.</p>
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