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	<title>Comments on: Mike The Mad Biologist: &#8216;the gloves are coming off&#8217;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2010/04/19/mike-the-mad-biologist-the-gloves-are-coming-off/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2010/04/19/mike-the-mad-biologist-the-gloves-are-coming-off/</link>
	<description>Where science collides with life, slams into culture, crashes with politics, and gets totaled.</description>
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		<title>By: Gurdur</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2010/04/19/mike-the-mad-biologist-the-gloves-are-coming-off/#comment-56750</link>
		<dc:creator>Gurdur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Apr 2010 20:13:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=8008#comment-56750</guid>
		<description>Two blog posts of mine about the whole issue of communication in science, including one on Mike The Mad Biologist&#039;s remarks:

&lt;a href=&quot;http://heathen-hub.com/blog.php?b=345 &quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Science needs to do better in Public Relations? Some scientists react badly to the need instead&lt;/a&gt;
and
&lt;a href=&quot;http://heathen-hub.com/blog.php?b=347&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Shooting the messenger instead of dealing with the problem: more on some scientists behaving badly to the need to become better communicators&lt;/a&gt;

As for the reptition of the point made by Mike about the disparity in resources; for heaven&#039;s sakes, scientists are not the first nor only group who had to learn how to make effective public campaigns and communication despite very limited resources. A bit less self-pity, a bit less ad hominems, and more actually dealing with the need to be better at public and governmental communication would well be in order.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Two blog posts of mine about the whole issue of communication in science, including one on Mike The Mad Biologist&#8217;s remarks:</p>
<p><a href="http://heathen-hub.com/blog.php?b=345 " rel="nofollow">Science needs to do better in Public Relations? Some scientists react badly to the need instead</a><br />
and<br />
<a href="http://heathen-hub.com/blog.php?b=347" rel="nofollow">Shooting the messenger instead of dealing with the problem: more on some scientists behaving badly to the need to become better communicators</a></p>
<p>As for the reptition of the point made by Mike about the disparity in resources; for heaven&#8217;s sakes, scientists are not the first nor only group who had to learn how to make effective public campaigns and communication despite very limited resources. A bit less self-pity, a bit less ad hominems, and more actually dealing with the need to be better at public and governmental communication would well be in order.</p>
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		<title>By: TB</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2010/04/19/mike-the-mad-biologist-the-gloves-are-coming-off/#comment-56747</link>
		<dc:creator>TB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Apr 2010 17:51:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=8008#comment-56747</guid>
		<description>Poor Mike - the guy barely has time to blog several times a day. About stuff, sometimes scientific stuff.
WAAAA!

Of course, the shorter MYMB is &quot;I want to do what I want to do so stop pointing out something important to do that I don&#039;t want to do.&quot;
Because, you know, Sheril is ALL POWERFUL and can make people, you know, do stuff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Poor Mike &#8211; the guy barely has time to blog several times a day. About stuff, sometimes scientific stuff.<br />
WAAAA!</p>
<p>Of course, the shorter MYMB is &#8220;I want to do what I want to do so stop pointing out something important to do that I don&#8217;t want to do.&#8221;<br />
Because, you know, Sheril is ALL POWERFUL and can make people, you know, do stuff.</p>
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		<title>By: gillt</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2010/04/19/mike-the-mad-biologist-the-gloves-are-coming-off/#comment-56612</link>
		<dc:creator>gillt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Apr 2010 00:02:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=8008#comment-56612</guid>
		<description>Of course my definition just eliminated most senior investigators.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course my definition just eliminated most senior investigators.</p>
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		<title>By: gillt</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2010/04/19/mike-the-mad-biologist-the-gloves-are-coming-off/#comment-56609</link>
		<dc:creator>gillt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Apr 2010 23:08:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=8008#comment-56609</guid>
		<description>Let&#039;s clear some things up with a tautology: if you&#039;re not doing science then you&#039;re not a scientist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s clear some things up with a tautology: if you&#8217;re not doing science then you&#8217;re not a scientist.</p>
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		<title>By: V.O.R.</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2010/04/19/mike-the-mad-biologist-the-gloves-are-coming-off/#comment-56577</link>
		<dc:creator>V.O.R.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Apr 2010 14:28:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=8008#comment-56577</guid>
		<description>Based on recent hopefully-non-representational reading, I&#039;d add &quot;Scientists are often overly defensive.&quot; to the list of problems in science communication.  Or, more specifically, to the problem of discussing problems in science communication.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Based on recent hopefully-non-representational reading, I&#8217;d add &#8220;Scientists are often overly defensive.&#8221; to the list of problems in science communication.  Or, more specifically, to the problem of discussing problems in science communication.</p>
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		<title>By: ponderingfool</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2010/04/19/mike-the-mad-biologist-the-gloves-are-coming-off/#comment-56570</link>
		<dc:creator>ponderingfool</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Apr 2010 11:51:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=8008#comment-56570</guid>
		<description>Of course the main problem is we have been spending time debating whether Sheril is a scientist or not and not the full merits of Mike&#039;s analysis.  Sheril framed the debate that way, so not the surprising.

The question is can scientists as things stand now really compete with the deep pockets aligned against global warming when it comes to lobbying Congress &amp; their staff?  Appearing on news channels?  I would say the answer is no, even with a wonderful organization and singular focus.  Why?  The money just is not there at this point.  You want professional level communication on behalf of science, you have to pay for professional level service.  The message right now should not be about blaming scientists for not being more professional in communicating and kissing the rear of Congress &amp; their staff, but about if you think that is important how can we achieve that; how can we align moneyed interests to support dealing with global warming to provide that level of professionalism?    Mike is challenging Sheril and Chris to provide a deeper analysis of the situation.

Of course you could also argue that maybe we should be thinking of other ways of pushing things forward.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course the main problem is we have been spending time debating whether Sheril is a scientist or not and not the full merits of Mike&#8217;s analysis.  Sheril framed the debate that way, so not the surprising.</p>
<p>The question is can scientists as things stand now really compete with the deep pockets aligned against global warming when it comes to lobbying Congress &#038; their staff?  Appearing on news channels?  I would say the answer is no, even with a wonderful organization and singular focus.  Why?  The money just is not there at this point.  You want professional level communication on behalf of science, you have to pay for professional level service.  The message right now should not be about blaming scientists for not being more professional in communicating and kissing the rear of Congress &#038; their staff, but about if you think that is important how can we achieve that; how can we align moneyed interests to support dealing with global warming to provide that level of professionalism?    Mike is challenging Sheril and Chris to provide a deeper analysis of the situation.</p>
<p>Of course you could also argue that maybe we should be thinking of other ways of pushing things forward.</p>
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		<title>By: Absurdist</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2010/04/19/mike-the-mad-biologist-the-gloves-are-coming-off/#comment-56476</link>
		<dc:creator>Absurdist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Apr 2010 02:01:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=8008#comment-56476</guid>
		<description>And *that&#039;s* the problem with framing IMO</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And *that&#8217;s* the problem with framing IMO</p>
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		<title>By: ponderingfool</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2010/04/19/mike-the-mad-biologist-the-gloves-are-coming-off/#comment-56470</link>
		<dc:creator>ponderingfool</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Apr 2010 23:50:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=8008#comment-56470</guid>
		<description>Sheril is a scientist I don&#039;t doubt Pete but her website promotes her as a science journalist (her words).  Her article in Science is: &quot;Science and government. Science and the candidates&quot;, in line with her part in founding Science Debate.  The science part of the website reads as past tense.  The science journalism comes across as now.  When you frame yourself a certain way don&#039;t be surprised if people associate you in that way.  Is it the full reality?  No, but framing isn&#039;t about the full reality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sheril is a scientist I don&#8217;t doubt Pete but her website promotes her as a science journalist (her words).  Her article in Science is: &#8220;Science and government. Science and the candidates&#8221;, in line with her part in founding Science Debate.  The science part of the website reads as past tense.  The science journalism comes across as now.  When you frame yourself a certain way don&#8217;t be surprised if people associate you in that way.  Is it the full reality?  No, but framing isn&#8217;t about the full reality.</p>
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		<title>By: Absurdist</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2010/04/19/mike-the-mad-biologist-the-gloves-are-coming-off/#comment-56462</link>
		<dc:creator>Absurdist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Apr 2010 22:11:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=8008#comment-56462</guid>
		<description>-Absurdist does sound absurd. Ms. Kirshenbaum’s done a lot of original research. She’s more in science than journalism.

Proof please. You are the one sounding absurd. Maybe your definition of &quot;a lot&quot; is ultra liberal. The &quot;work published in Science&quot; was a write up on science policy, not an original research paper, which is vastly different and much more hard work. And you mean to say she is more in science &lt;i&gt;writing&lt;/i&gt; and policy than science journalism. CM is much more of a bona fide science journalist and has two solid books to his credit (The Republican War and Storm World) which prove this. SK needs to do the same to be called a science journalist. At this point she is a wannabe science journalist/writer with a promising future ahead of her, if she takes the right steps. But a scientist she is not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>-Absurdist does sound absurd. Ms. Kirshenbaum’s done a lot of original research. She’s more in science than journalism.</p>
<p>Proof please. You are the one sounding absurd. Maybe your definition of &#8220;a lot&#8221; is ultra liberal. The &#8220;work published in Science&#8221; was a write up on science policy, not an original research paper, which is vastly different and much more hard work. And you mean to say she is more in science <i>writing</i> and policy than science journalism. CM is much more of a bona fide science journalist and has two solid books to his credit (The Republican War and Storm World) which prove this. SK needs to do the same to be called a science journalist. At this point she is a wannabe science journalist/writer with a promising future ahead of her, if she takes the right steps. But a scientist she is not.</p>
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		<title>By: Pete</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2010/04/19/mike-the-mad-biologist-the-gloves-are-coming-off/#comment-56455</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Apr 2010 21:05:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=8008#comment-56455</guid>
		<description>Or there&#039;s the next paragraph:

&quot;her work has been published in Science, Fisheries Bulletin, Oecologia, and Issues in Science and Technology. In 2007, she helped to found Science Debate; an initiative encouraging candidates to debate science research and innovation issues on the campaign trail. Previously, Sheril was a Research Associate at Duke University&#039;s Nicholas School of the Environment and has served as a Fellow with the Center for Biodiversity and Conservation at the American Museum of Natural History and as a Howard Hughes Research Fellow. She has contributed reports to The Nature Conservancy and provided assistance on international protected area projects.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Or there&#8217;s the next paragraph:</p>
<p>&#8220;her work has been published in Science, Fisheries Bulletin, Oecologia, and Issues in Science and Technology. In 2007, she helped to found Science Debate; an initiative encouraging candidates to debate science research and innovation issues on the campaign trail. Previously, Sheril was a Research Associate at Duke University&#8217;s Nicholas School of the Environment and has served as a Fellow with the Center for Biodiversity and Conservation at the American Museum of Natural History and as a Howard Hughes Research Fellow. She has contributed reports to The Nature Conservancy and provided assistance on international protected area projects.&#8221;</p>
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