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	<title>Comments on: The Reasons For Sci Comm Training</title>
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		<title>By: Claire C Smith</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2010/05/25/sci-comm-training/#comment-44576</link>
		<dc:creator>Claire C Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jun 2010 22:31:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=8675#comment-44576</guid>
		<description>It would be good if science, or for that matter anyhting, wasn&#039;t so diluted with business, politics, journalism, not that these are not of help, but it seems that&#039;s the way of the world. I am quite sure there could be a better way, and at least the strive for that, is better than nothing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It would be good if science, or for that matter anyhting, wasn&#8217;t so diluted with business, politics, journalism, not that these are not of help, but it seems that&#8217;s the way of the world. I am quite sure there could be a better way, and at least the strive for that, is better than nothing.</p>
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		<title>By: gillt</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2010/05/25/sci-comm-training/#comment-44575</link>
		<dc:creator>gillt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jun 2010 05:48:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=8675#comment-44575</guid>
		<description>Milton C.: &quot;Except that it IS their job (part of it) now. Written an NSF or NIH grant lately? Or, I guess I should say, received an NSF of NIH grant lately? They’re requiring funded projects to actively reach out and disseminate information to an unscientific public, thus making that very much part of a scientists’ job….if you want to get funding for your research, at least.&quot;

How many scientists do you personally know who do this, including your former self? How&#039;d they manage say raising a family, being a successful, publishing scientist, having a life AND partaking in educating the public on science?

From where I&#039;m sitting, it is simply not a reality for the vast majority of grad students and post-docs with dreams of running their own labs or working in academia or industry to take on the title of Information Disseminator to the public. Since you were  a former scientist of 15 plus years, how many hours a week did you spend in the lab or the field? If it&#039;s anything less than 50 then maybe it explains why you aren&#039;t doing it any longer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Milton C.: &#8220;Except that it IS their job (part of it) now. Written an NSF or NIH grant lately? Or, I guess I should say, received an NSF of NIH grant lately? They’re requiring funded projects to actively reach out and disseminate information to an unscientific public, thus making that very much part of a scientists’ job….if you want to get funding for your research, at least.&#8221;</p>
<p>How many scientists do you personally know who do this, including your former self? How&#8217;d they manage say raising a family, being a successful, publishing scientist, having a life AND partaking in educating the public on science?</p>
<p>From where I&#8217;m sitting, it is simply not a reality for the vast majority of grad students and post-docs with dreams of running their own labs or working in academia or industry to take on the title of Information Disseminator to the public. Since you were  a former scientist of 15 plus years, how many hours a week did you spend in the lab or the field? If it&#8217;s anything less than 50 then maybe it explains why you aren&#8217;t doing it any longer.</p>
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		<title>By: Marion Delgado</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2010/05/25/sci-comm-training/#comment-44574</link>
		<dc:creator>Marion Delgado</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jun 2010 06:23:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=8675#comment-44574</guid>
		<description>Alan Alda continues to have this as a key interest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alan Alda continues to have this as a key interest.</p>
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		<title>By: Nullius in Verba</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2010/05/25/sci-comm-training/#comment-44573</link>
		<dc:creator>Nullius in Verba</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 May 2010 16:32:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=8675#comment-44573</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;I think it takes a great amount of cluelessness and hubris (and mealymouthed hypocrisy) for scientists to complain all the time about how unscientific the public is and then prove to be too complacent and lazy to get off their asses and actually do something about it….or to just point the finger at someone (everyone) else.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

That&#039;s the concept of &quot;division of labour&quot; for you.

It&#039;s not a matter of pointing fingers. People should do what they&#039;re best at, and employ others for what other people are best at, so we all get the best. Sticking other tasks onto grant conditions to satisfy a political desire isn&#039;t a good way to get the best science, or the best public communication for that matter.

Nor is it a matter of laziness - or at least, not in a straightforward sense. The problem is not &lt;i&gt;who&lt;/i&gt; communicates, or &lt;i&gt;how much&lt;/i&gt; they communicate, but &lt;i&gt;what&lt;/i&gt; they communicate. The problem is what we commonly refer to as &quot;dumbing down&quot;.

Whenever a scientist gets involved with the media, one of the first things they are told is to keep it simple, comprehensible for an audience that can&#039;t follow science. So the scientist can be as enthusiastic as you like about getting the interesting sciency stuff out there, but it will end up on the cutting room floor because nobody believes for a second that the general public would be able to understand. They would all turn off, and the media guys would lose audience ratings. And that would be &lt;i&gt;terrible&lt;/i&gt;.

It is a self-fulfilling prophecy. We never explain science, because the general public &quot;would not understand&quot;, and they don&#039;t understand because we never explain. We have spent so many years not explaining that even if you start now it would take years to repair the damage. And science presentation has degenerated to a series of &#039;Gee! Whiz!&#039; recitation of conclusions and achievements and aspirations, without ever talking about the process of getting there.

Simple example - we all know that scientists have sequenced the human genome. It&#039;s a great achievement, and anyone can see how it could be useful. But most people have little idea how they did it. How many of those people who &quot;know&quot; about the human genome project from watching the news also know that you can extract DNA by using a kitchen blender, a sieve, liquid detergent, pineapple juice, alcohol, and a stick? Or why that works, or what you do next?

It&#039;s not especially hard to understand, but people are rarely told about it, so of course they don&#039;t know it. They&#039;re told that scientists have done it. They&#039;re shown flashy graphics of double helices. You&#039;re told in great detail about the politics, and the economics, the arguments about intellectual property, and people&#039;s opinions on all that. But the science itself is done by magic - you &quot;send it to the lab&quot; or &quot;put it in the box and press a button&quot;, where occult process are performed and the answer comes back in the form of what looks like a bar code that the wise can point to and tell your fortune from. Their &quot;scientific literacy&quot; is a hollow shell.

It&#039;s not new. Richard Feynman wrote a brilliant essay about it; this &quot;Wakalixes&quot; approach to science education. They&#039;re told the final conclusions, but not how to understand it; the basics. It&#039;s just meaningless words to them, which makes them think they &quot;can&#039;t do science&quot; and they just give up. But they were never given a chance.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.channel4.com/programmes/dispatches/episode-guide/series-53/episode-1&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Here&#039;s a programme&lt;/a&gt; about the results this has had in Britain. I don&#039;t think Britain is alone, either. It&#039;s one of the main motivations for homeschoolers - people see what socialised education has done, and don&#039;t want their own children to be damaged in that way. (Whether it succeeds at that I can&#039;t say. I only mention it because it was mentioned above.)

Which brings us to the main problem - the use of &quot;Scientific Authority&quot;; an oxymoron if ever there were. Having failed to teach basic understanding, educators must fall back on an alternative: that you should believe it &lt;i&gt;because scientists say so&lt;/i&gt;. It&#039;s totally anti-scientific! But it&#039;s a refrain I hear constantly repeated, especially from those claiming to be the most scientifically literate.

The &quot;problem&quot; for science awareness is that this travesty is finally - finally! - falling apart. People don&#039;t believe the scientists. Scientific authority is being rejected. And you can no longer fix it up with clever political/advertising techniques like &quot;framing&quot; from the postmodernist camp. We have a long way to go, and its collapse will leave ruins in its wake. A new understanding will not be put in place overnight.

But the first step to learning something new is to admit to yourself that you don&#039;t know. In science, that&#039;s an acceptable answer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;I think it takes a great amount of cluelessness and hubris (and mealymouthed hypocrisy) for scientists to complain all the time about how unscientific the public is and then prove to be too complacent and lazy to get off their asses and actually do something about it….or to just point the finger at someone (everyone) else.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>That&#8217;s the concept of &#8220;division of labour&#8221; for you.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not a matter of pointing fingers. People should do what they&#8217;re best at, and employ others for what other people are best at, so we all get the best. Sticking other tasks onto grant conditions to satisfy a political desire isn&#8217;t a good way to get the best science, or the best public communication for that matter.</p>
<p>Nor is it a matter of laziness &#8211; or at least, not in a straightforward sense. The problem is not <i>who</i> communicates, or <i>how much</i> they communicate, but <i>what</i> they communicate. The problem is what we commonly refer to as &#8220;dumbing down&#8221;.</p>
<p>Whenever a scientist gets involved with the media, one of the first things they are told is to keep it simple, comprehensible for an audience that can&#8217;t follow science. So the scientist can be as enthusiastic as you like about getting the interesting sciency stuff out there, but it will end up on the cutting room floor because nobody believes for a second that the general public would be able to understand. They would all turn off, and the media guys would lose audience ratings. And that would be <i>terrible</i>.</p>
<p>It is a self-fulfilling prophecy. We never explain science, because the general public &#8220;would not understand&#8221;, and they don&#8217;t understand because we never explain. We have spent so many years not explaining that even if you start now it would take years to repair the damage. And science presentation has degenerated to a series of &#8216;Gee! Whiz!&#8217; recitation of conclusions and achievements and aspirations, without ever talking about the process of getting there.</p>
<p>Simple example &#8211; we all know that scientists have sequenced the human genome. It&#8217;s a great achievement, and anyone can see how it could be useful. But most people have little idea how they did it. How many of those people who &#8220;know&#8221; about the human genome project from watching the news also know that you can extract DNA by using a kitchen blender, a sieve, liquid detergent, pineapple juice, alcohol, and a stick? Or why that works, or what you do next?</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not especially hard to understand, but people are rarely told about it, so of course they don&#8217;t know it. They&#8217;re told that scientists have done it. They&#8217;re shown flashy graphics of double helices. You&#8217;re told in great detail about the politics, and the economics, the arguments about intellectual property, and people&#8217;s opinions on all that. But the science itself is done by magic &#8211; you &#8220;send it to the lab&#8221; or &#8220;put it in the box and press a button&#8221;, where occult process are performed and the answer comes back in the form of what looks like a bar code that the wise can point to and tell your fortune from. Their &#8220;scientific literacy&#8221; is a hollow shell.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not new. Richard Feynman wrote a brilliant essay about it; this &#8220;Wakalixes&#8221; approach to science education. They&#8217;re told the final conclusions, but not how to understand it; the basics. It&#8217;s just meaningless words to them, which makes them think they &#8220;can&#8217;t do science&#8221; and they just give up. But they were never given a chance.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.channel4.com/programmes/dispatches/episode-guide/series-53/episode-1" rel="nofollow">Here&#8217;s a programme</a> about the results this has had in Britain. I don&#8217;t think Britain is alone, either. It&#8217;s one of the main motivations for homeschoolers &#8211; people see what socialised education has done, and don&#8217;t want their own children to be damaged in that way. (Whether it succeeds at that I can&#8217;t say. I only mention it because it was mentioned above.)</p>
<p>Which brings us to the main problem &#8211; the use of &#8220;Scientific Authority&#8221;; an oxymoron if ever there were. Having failed to teach basic understanding, educators must fall back on an alternative: that you should believe it <i>because scientists say so</i>. It&#8217;s totally anti-scientific! But it&#8217;s a refrain I hear constantly repeated, especially from those claiming to be the most scientifically literate.</p>
<p>The &#8220;problem&#8221; for science awareness is that this travesty is finally &#8211; finally! &#8211; falling apart. People don&#8217;t believe the scientists. Scientific authority is being rejected. And you can no longer fix it up with clever political/advertising techniques like &#8220;framing&#8221; from the postmodernist camp. We have a long way to go, and its collapse will leave ruins in its wake. A new understanding will not be put in place overnight.</p>
<p>But the first step to learning something new is to admit to yourself that you don&#8217;t know. In science, that&#8217;s an acceptable answer.</p>
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		<title>By: Milton C.</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2010/05/25/sci-comm-training/#comment-44572</link>
		<dc:creator>Milton C.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 May 2010 13:29:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=8675#comment-44572</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;That (disseminating information) is not the job, nor should it be, of research scientists, a large portion of whom are socially awkward anyway. Journalists and the media need to start doing a far better job at their job.&lt;/i&gt;

Except that it IS their job (part of it) now. Written an NSF or NIH grant lately? Or, I guess I should say, &lt;i&gt;received&lt;/i&gt; an NSF of NIH grant lately? They&#039;re requiring funded projects to actively reach out and disseminate information to an unscientific public, thus making that very much part of a scientists&#039; job....if you want to get funding for your research, at least.

I&#039;ve served on NSF funding panels, and we very much do consider the outreach/education components of grants when we select them for funding - it&#039;s not just something put on the funding guidelines to make the NSF (or agency of choice) look better.

&lt;i&gt;I think it takes a great amount of cluelessness and hubris for a science communicator to declare America unscientific then point the finger at dorky scientists for having bad PR skills.&lt;/i&gt;

I think it takes a great amount of cluelessness and hubris (and mealymouthed hypocrisy) for scientists to complain all the time about how unscientific the public is and then prove to be too complacent and lazy to get off their asses and actually do something about it....or to just point the finger at someone (everyone) else.

I&#039;ve worked in academia as a research scientist for 15+ years, and I&#039;ve seen this blame game (pass the buck instead of taking action) occur this whole time, while not much has changed in the public. Hell, I&#039;ve been one of those lazy and complacent scientists, myself! In my experience, the scientists who are willing to tag on outreach and education components to their research, however, have received tenure quicker/easier than other scientists, have enjoyed better public notoriety, have achieved access to field sites/subjects for future projects more easily, and get more research funding than those who would rather rest on their laurels and prove to be a lot of talk but absolutely terrified of action. And no one&#039;s asking research scientists to stop doing research here. Science is moving, folks, and it&#039;s moving in a direction where scientists need better commuication skills. It&#039;d be best to get off your ass and join the club if you want to compete over the next couple of decades, or just get left behind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>That (disseminating information) is not the job, nor should it be, of research scientists, a large portion of whom are socially awkward anyway. Journalists and the media need to start doing a far better job at their job.</i></p>
<p>Except that it IS their job (part of it) now. Written an NSF or NIH grant lately? Or, I guess I should say, <i>received</i> an NSF of NIH grant lately? They&#8217;re requiring funded projects to actively reach out and disseminate information to an unscientific public, thus making that very much part of a scientists&#8217; job&#8230;.if you want to get funding for your research, at least.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve served on NSF funding panels, and we very much do consider the outreach/education components of grants when we select them for funding &#8211; it&#8217;s not just something put on the funding guidelines to make the NSF (or agency of choice) look better.</p>
<p><i>I think it takes a great amount of cluelessness and hubris for a science communicator to declare America unscientific then point the finger at dorky scientists for having bad PR skills.</i></p>
<p>I think it takes a great amount of cluelessness and hubris (and mealymouthed hypocrisy) for scientists to complain all the time about how unscientific the public is and then prove to be too complacent and lazy to get off their asses and actually do something about it&#8230;.or to just point the finger at someone (everyone) else.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve worked in academia as a research scientist for 15+ years, and I&#8217;ve seen this blame game (pass the buck instead of taking action) occur this whole time, while not much has changed in the public. Hell, I&#8217;ve been one of those lazy and complacent scientists, myself! In my experience, the scientists who are willing to tag on outreach and education components to their research, however, have received tenure quicker/easier than other scientists, have enjoyed better public notoriety, have achieved access to field sites/subjects for future projects more easily, and get more research funding than those who would rather rest on their laurels and prove to be a lot of talk but absolutely terrified of action. And no one&#8217;s asking research scientists to stop doing research here. Science is moving, folks, and it&#8217;s moving in a direction where scientists need better commuication skills. It&#8217;d be best to get off your ass and join the club if you want to compete over the next couple of decades, or just get left behind.</p>
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		<title>By: Claire C Smith</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2010/05/25/sci-comm-training/#comment-44571</link>
		<dc:creator>Claire C Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 May 2010 05:36:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=8675#comment-44571</guid>
		<description>So,

Have we got anywhere with any of this yet? - (looks at comments...) Not good enough.

You should all be bashing, shouting and arguing with each other with capital letters, and swearing even - like they do on comments on a climate change forum.

Supposing we got so as far as science subjects getting into schools really well, via fancy science TV programmes that are sent to schools - which is a reallty good way to do it. All is going well, then the teachers have face up to the fact that teaching the more dry text book stuff to kids, like having to use correct units in a physics answer as an exmaple, is part of text book education. There is also the fact that the text book isn&#039;t much like the brilliant TV programme that has just been presented to them by a superb set of scientists and presenters. It&#039;s just becomes a let down - now all hard work-boring they say! This part is easy if you&#039;re a sad git like me who reads text books for sheer joy, but kids can be a hand full, unless someone comes along and makes them think of it all in a completely unique and different way - teachers.

Teachers next job - keep them on task.

Have fun.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So,</p>
<p>Have we got anywhere with any of this yet? &#8211; (looks at comments&#8230;) Not good enough.</p>
<p>You should all be bashing, shouting and arguing with each other with capital letters, and swearing even &#8211; like they do on comments on a climate change forum.</p>
<p>Supposing we got so as far as science subjects getting into schools really well, via fancy science TV programmes that are sent to schools &#8211; which is a reallty good way to do it. All is going well, then the teachers have face up to the fact that teaching the more dry text book stuff to kids, like having to use correct units in a physics answer as an exmaple, is part of text book education. There is also the fact that the text book isn&#8217;t much like the brilliant TV programme that has just been presented to them by a superb set of scientists and presenters. It&#8217;s just becomes a let down &#8211; now all hard work-boring they say! This part is easy if you&#8217;re a sad git like me who reads text books for sheer joy, but kids can be a hand full, unless someone comes along and makes them think of it all in a completely unique and different way &#8211; teachers.</p>
<p>Teachers next job &#8211; keep them on task.</p>
<p>Have fun.</p>
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		<title>By: John Kwok</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2010/05/25/sci-comm-training/#comment-44570</link>
		<dc:creator>John Kwok</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 May 2010 03:55:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=8675#comment-44570</guid>
		<description>@ gillt -

You get a ringing endorsement from me for your comment (# 73). Very, very well said.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ gillt -</p>
<p>You get a ringing endorsement from me for your comment (# 73). Very, very well said.</p>
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		<title>By: Deepak Shetty</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2010/05/25/sci-comm-training/#comment-44569</link>
		<dc:creator>Deepak Shetty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 May 2010 19:38:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=8675#comment-44569</guid>
		<description>@GM
heh. And I thought I was cynical.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@GM<br />
heh. And I thought I was cynical.</p>
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		<title>By: GM</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2010/05/25/sci-comm-training/#comment-44568</link>
		<dc:creator>GM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 May 2010 18:24:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=8675#comment-44568</guid>
		<description>See, it is no about getting people to be interested in science or to have more kids aspiring to be scientists. The important things is to have everyone think like a scientists because the survival of the species depends on that. This very crucial point is completely missed by everyone who thinks that anything other than all our war on religion will help (and by plenty of people that would be classified as &quot;New Atheists&quot; too), because all of the &quot;non-offending&quot; approaches to the problem do not address this at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>See, it is no about getting people to be interested in science or to have more kids aspiring to be scientists. The important things is to have everyone think like a scientists because the survival of the species depends on that. This very crucial point is completely missed by everyone who thinks that anything other than all our war on religion will help (and by plenty of people that would be classified as &#8220;New Atheists&#8221; too), because all of the &#8220;non-offending&#8221; approaches to the problem do not address this at all.</p>
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		<title>By: Claire C Smith</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2010/05/25/sci-comm-training/#comment-44567</link>
		<dc:creator>Claire C Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 May 2010 17:37:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=8675#comment-44567</guid>
		<description>Come to think of it, the baker store idea I added, might not be a good example of how to communicate science to the layman(3 am in the morning might have something to do woth it), but it does suggest how difficult it is to get the information across to non science groups. It might that the comminicator goes to a factory that produces hoovers, or computers, but the point is, the more far fetched the layman is about the importance of science, the greater the challenge it is to get them to see it&#039;s piont. TV docs and journalists in mags do have control of its communication but only up to a piont - if people actually read or see what they say. Very difficult - best asking the experts!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Come to think of it, the baker store idea I added, might not be a good example of how to communicate science to the layman(3 am in the morning might have something to do woth it), but it does suggest how difficult it is to get the information across to non science groups. It might that the comminicator goes to a factory that produces hoovers, or computers, but the point is, the more far fetched the layman is about the importance of science, the greater the challenge it is to get them to see it&#8217;s piont. TV docs and journalists in mags do have control of its communication but only up to a piont &#8211; if people actually read or see what they say. Very difficult &#8211; best asking the experts!</p>
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