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	<title>Comments on: Trouble.</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2010/11/11/trouble/</link>
	<description>Where science collides with life, slams into culture, crashes with politics, and gets totaled.</description>
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		<title>By: ThomasL</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2010/11/11/trouble/#comment-81149</link>
		<dc:creator>ThomasL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Nov 2010 19:25:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=13708#comment-81149</guid>
		<description>ChH -

Part of the problem with &quot;issue&quot; &amp; &quot;party&quot; voters is it results in both the Rep. Shimkus &amp; Rep. Johnson types.  They might be absolute morons, but hey – they agree with me on that all important one issue, so damn the rest of it (as though there is only one concern that will affect me that they must deal with while they are there).  Thus we end up with a majority of members who are absolutely clueless about governance as they are put there solely for “the cause” (and this country has many such “causes” to choose from).  Hence special interest rule.

The result is that we have those willing to defend moronic claims on both sides because while they may be idiots in almost every other area, they do support that pet issue of mine, so therefore we’ll just ignore the messes they are making everywhere else.  I mean that’s leadership and governance, right?

Anyone who can’t see both parties (and thus us ourselves as we are the ones doing the voting...) are equally at fault for where we find ourselves (on every level) hasn’t been paying attention (ignorance of history – and “in my lifetime” is worthless for anyone under 40), fail to understand economic and social realities (a requirement for any who wish to work successfully towards betterment of our situation, instead we get accounting games like raiding the S.S. trust fund and proclaiming we have a balanced budget as Clinton did – except we haven’t had an honestly balanced budget since the mid 1950’s), or they are simply too dimwitted themselves to realize how much all those other “unimportant” issues are going to end up affecting them.

There is lots of talk in these threads of conspiracy theories – they would be more interesting if those throwing them out there had a clue about human behavior and maybe, just maybe, had a glimmer of an idea how corruption and such enmesh themselves into a culture.  We have already traveled miles down that road.

A few thoughts on where our society is by one who can word it better than I (in two parts):
http://www.oftwominds.com/blognov10/banality-of-evil11-10.html
http://www.oftwominds.com/blognov10/fraud-is-lifeblood11-10.html

I’ve yet to meet one who doesn’t recognize such is indeed our situation today, and yet all we hear is the special interests telling us the biggest problem is that one issue of theirs…</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ChH -</p>
<p>Part of the problem with &#8220;issue&#8221; &#038; &#8220;party&#8221; voters is it results in both the Rep. Shimkus &#038; Rep. Johnson types.  They might be absolute morons, but hey – they agree with me on that all important one issue, so damn the rest of it (as though there is only one concern that will affect me that they must deal with while they are there).  Thus we end up with a majority of members who are absolutely clueless about governance as they are put there solely for “the cause” (and this country has many such “causes” to choose from).  Hence special interest rule.</p>
<p>The result is that we have those willing to defend moronic claims on both sides because while they may be idiots in almost every other area, they do support that pet issue of mine, so therefore we’ll just ignore the messes they are making everywhere else.  I mean that’s leadership and governance, right?</p>
<p>Anyone who can’t see both parties (and thus us ourselves as we are the ones doing the voting&#8230;) are equally at fault for where we find ourselves (on every level) hasn’t been paying attention (ignorance of history – and “in my lifetime” is worthless for anyone under 40), fail to understand economic and social realities (a requirement for any who wish to work successfully towards betterment of our situation, instead we get accounting games like raiding the S.S. trust fund and proclaiming we have a balanced budget as Clinton did – except we haven’t had an honestly balanced budget since the mid 1950’s), or they are simply too dimwitted themselves to realize how much all those other “unimportant” issues are going to end up affecting them.</p>
<p>There is lots of talk in these threads of conspiracy theories – they would be more interesting if those throwing them out there had a clue about human behavior and maybe, just maybe, had a glimmer of an idea how corruption and such enmesh themselves into a culture.  We have already traveled miles down that road.</p>
<p>A few thoughts on where our society is by one who can word it better than I (in two parts):<br />
<a href="http://www.oftwominds.com/blognov10/banality-of-evil11-10.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.oftwominds.com/blognov10/banality-of-evil11-10.html</a><br />
<a href="http://www.oftwominds.com/blognov10/fraud-is-lifeblood11-10.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.oftwominds.com/blognov10/fraud-is-lifeblood11-10.html</a></p>
<p>I’ve yet to meet one who doesn’t recognize such is indeed our situation today, and yet all we hear is the special interests telling us the biggest problem is that one issue of theirs…</p>
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		<title>By: ChH</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2010/11/11/trouble/#comment-81113</link>
		<dc:creator>ChH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Nov 2010 12:56:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=13708#comment-81113</guid>
		<description>ThomasL ... wow - amazing video of Rep. Johnson. You&#039;re right that his lunacy is on par with Shimkus&#039;. The difference is Shimkus is sort-of on my side of things, and it irritates me when people attempt to support &quot;my side&quot; with really bad reasoning.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ThomasL &#8230; wow &#8211; amazing video of Rep. Johnson. You&#8217;re right that his lunacy is on par with Shimkus&#8217;. The difference is Shimkus is sort-of on my side of things, and it irritates me when people attempt to support &#8220;my side&#8221; with really bad reasoning.</p>
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		<title>By: ThomasL</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2010/11/11/trouble/#comment-81082</link>
		<dc:creator>ThomasL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Nov 2010 05:49:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=13708#comment-81082</guid>
		<description>ChH -

Didn&#039;t you get the memo?  Apparently we have lost our ability to adapt.  Thus rather then moving out of the way of detrimental environmental, ecological, or even geographical changes as our species has done since time long lost to history, we will simply stay in place and drown…
 
That’s why it’s so important for our government (actually, it would be better for a world government to do it, but we take what we got…) to “take control” and &quot;fix it&quot; - even if we barely know how a tiny fraction of it works.  As everyone knows, when our omnipotent governmental bodies come into action there are never unintended consequences, I mean look at what a great job they have done the past 50 years in “managing” our economy, maintaining infrastructure and all other manner of responsible “leadership”.

I fail to see how this bit of lunacy is any worse than this (at the 1:20 mark we get the famous Guam tipping over thought…):  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNZczIgVXjg

Republican or Democrat – we get what we vote for, mostly fools.  Why I think Chris is a bit disingenuous with his constant rants on Republicans…  Both parties are full of less then genuis members.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ChH -</p>
<p>Didn&#8217;t you get the memo?  Apparently we have lost our ability to adapt.  Thus rather then moving out of the way of detrimental environmental, ecological, or even geographical changes as our species has done since time long lost to history, we will simply stay in place and drown…</p>
<p>That’s why it’s so important for our government (actually, it would be better for a world government to do it, but we take what we got…) to “take control” and &#8220;fix it&#8221; &#8211; even if we barely know how a tiny fraction of it works.  As everyone knows, when our omnipotent governmental bodies come into action there are never unintended consequences, I mean look at what a great job they have done the past 50 years in “managing” our economy, maintaining infrastructure and all other manner of responsible “leadership”.</p>
<p>I fail to see how this bit of lunacy is any worse than this (at the 1:20 mark we get the famous Guam tipping over thought…):  <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNZczIgVXjg" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNZczIgVXjg</a></p>
<p>Republican or Democrat – we get what we vote for, mostly fools.  Why I think Chris is a bit disingenuous with his constant rants on Republicans…  Both parties are full of less then genuis members.</p>
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		<title>By: ChH</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2010/11/11/trouble/#comment-81078</link>
		<dc:creator>ChH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Nov 2010 04:05:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=13708#comment-81078</guid>
		<description>Duncan ... to beat this dead horse ...
Shimkus was saying:
- God has promised never to flood the whole earth again
- and global warming would cause a worldwide flood
- therefore there cannot be global warming.
All I&#039;m saying is this is badly reasoned because the worldwide flood God promised would never happen again would cover the whole earth and kill all land animals not in boats, whereas the very worst imaginable flood due to global warming does not nearly do that, so the floods in his two terms are not the same thing and his conclusion is invalid.

My approach is that there may be global warming, and it might possibly be caused by humans - but neither indicates that the best way to deal with it is to attempt to stop it.  Adaptation is a better path.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Duncan &#8230; to beat this dead horse &#8230;<br />
Shimkus was saying:<br />
- God has promised never to flood the whole earth again<br />
- and global warming would cause a worldwide flood<br />
- therefore there cannot be global warming.<br />
All I&#8217;m saying is this is badly reasoned because the worldwide flood God promised would never happen again would cover the whole earth and kill all land animals not in boats, whereas the very worst imaginable flood due to global warming does not nearly do that, so the floods in his two terms are not the same thing and his conclusion is invalid.</p>
<p>My approach is that there may be global warming, and it might possibly be caused by humans &#8211; but neither indicates that the best way to deal with it is to attempt to stop it.  Adaptation is a better path.</p>
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		<title>By: An Open Letter to US Representative John Shimkus &#124; Other Scribbles</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2010/11/11/trouble/#comment-81043</link>
		<dc:creator>An Open Letter to US Representative John Shimkus &#124; Other Scribbles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Nov 2010 21:50:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=13708#comment-81043</guid>
		<description>[...] draft an appropriately succinct letter in response to your stance on global climate change and your bid to become the chairman of the Energy and Commerce Committee. However, I write for a living, and I have roughly 3000 more words to put together before the day [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] draft an appropriately succinct letter in response to your stance on global climate change and your bid to become the chairman of the Energy and Commerce Committee. However, I write for a living, and I have roughly 3000 more words to put together before the day [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Duncan Brown</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2010/11/11/trouble/#comment-80998</link>
		<dc:creator>Duncan Brown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Nov 2010 15:22:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=13708#comment-80998</guid>
		<description>I agree ChH:  But you don&#039;t have to invoke worst case scenarios.   I think it is highly probable that all kinds of damage to humanity and  the earth and its ecosystems are on the way, including flooding of low-lying populations (in Bangladesh and elsewhere),  mass extinctions.  At the same time, the climate scientists and some of there partisans (like arch exaggerator Al Gore and the  IPCC at the UN) are losing the struggle to inform the people, because they have too much invested in the system.  

And also because most Americans live in fantasy worlds. of various kinds  (including so-called religious ones like the anti-evolution &quot;movement&quot; ).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree ChH:  But you don&#8217;t have to invoke worst case scenarios.   I think it is highly probable that all kinds of damage to humanity and  the earth and its ecosystems are on the way, including flooding of low-lying populations (in Bangladesh and elsewhere),  mass extinctions.  At the same time, the climate scientists and some of there partisans (like arch exaggerator Al Gore and the  IPCC at the UN) are losing the struggle to inform the people, because they have too much invested in the system.  </p>
<p>And also because most Americans live in fantasy worlds. of various kinds  (including so-called religious ones like the anti-evolution &#8220;movement&#8221; ).</p>
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		<title>By: ChH</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2010/11/11/trouble/#comment-80933</link>
		<dc:creator>ChH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Nov 2010 02:01:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=13708#comment-80933</guid>
		<description>Like Rep. Shimkus, I believe that God’s word is infallible, unchanging and perfect.  That is why what he said really irritates me.  God&#039;s word also tells us to cultivate and keep &amp; rule over the Earth. Many parts of the law of Moses dictate how to care for your land by allowing to lie fallow at the appropriate times &amp; other means of not abusing it. There is a continuing theme of being a good steward of what we&#039;ve been given - so we should take care of our environment.

The worst case flood scenario would be a 200 foot sea level rise if all the ice melts.  That would be really bad, and yet not nearly a violation of God&#039;s promise to Noah (&quot;never again shall the water become a flood to destroy all flesh&quot;) - so his point is meaningless anyway.

Now - I am skeptical of AGW alarmism. I think it takes away from more immediate environmental concerns such as water quality &amp; distribution... but I really don&#039;t like Shimkus&#039;s approach either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like Rep. Shimkus, I believe that God’s word is infallible, unchanging and perfect.  That is why what he said really irritates me.  God&#8217;s word also tells us to cultivate and keep &#038; rule over the Earth. Many parts of the law of Moses dictate how to care for your land by allowing to lie fallow at the appropriate times &#038; other means of not abusing it. There is a continuing theme of being a good steward of what we&#8217;ve been given &#8211; so we should take care of our environment.</p>
<p>The worst case flood scenario would be a 200 foot sea level rise if all the ice melts.  That would be really bad, and yet not nearly a violation of God&#8217;s promise to Noah (&#8220;never again shall the water become a flood to destroy all flesh&#8221;) &#8211; so his point is meaningless anyway.</p>
<p>Now &#8211; I am skeptical of AGW alarmism. I think it takes away from more immediate environmental concerns such as water quality &#038; distribution&#8230; but I really don&#8217;t like Shimkus&#8217;s approach either.</p>
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		<title>By: Bobito</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2010/11/11/trouble/#comment-80921</link>
		<dc:creator>Bobito</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Nov 2010 23:28:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=13708#comment-80921</guid>
		<description>Regadless of anything else, he certainly comes off as a loon!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regadless of anything else, he certainly comes off as a loon!</p>
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		<title>By: Bobito</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2010/11/11/trouble/#comment-80920</link>
		<dc:creator>Bobito</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Nov 2010 23:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=13708#comment-80920</guid>
		<description>If nothing else, it&#039;s proof that injecting religious beliefs into your politics is not a good idea in this country any more.  If the GOP gives this to him they will be on the road to losing there majority....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If nothing else, it&#8217;s proof that injecting religious beliefs into your politics is not a good idea in this country any more.  If the GOP gives this to him they will be on the road to losing there majority&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Curious Wavefunction</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2010/11/11/trouble/#comment-80882</link>
		<dc:creator>Curious Wavefunction</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Nov 2010 19:36:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=13708#comment-80882</guid>
		<description>Nooooo. What about Shiva the Destroyer?? That&#039;s one mean dude and you can&#039;t escape &lt;i&gt;his&lt;/i&gt; wrath even if Yahweh gives you a free pass. Lately they have not been on cordial terms, especially since Yahweh borrowed Shiva&#039;s favorite pet &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.hindu-blog.com/2008/02/about-snakes-worn-by-shiva-serpent.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;snake&lt;/a&gt; and never gave it back.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nooooo. What about Shiva the Destroyer?? That&#8217;s one mean dude and you can&#8217;t escape <i>his</i> wrath even if Yahweh gives you a free pass. Lately they have not been on cordial terms, especially since Yahweh borrowed Shiva&#8217;s favorite pet <a href="http://www.hindu-blog.com/2008/02/about-snakes-worn-by-shiva-serpent.html" rel="nofollow">snake</a> and never gave it back.</p>
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