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	<title>Comments on: Just How Irrational Can People Get?</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/01/03/just-how-irrational-can-people-get/</link>
	<description>Where science collides with life, slams into culture, crashes with politics, and gets totaled.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 27 Sep 2011 17:28:30 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Mike H</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/01/03/just-how-irrational-can-people-get/#comment-87208</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Jan 2011 16:40:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=14749#comment-87208</guid>
		<description>Matteo, 

If Science, by defenition, is rational, why are today&#039;s scientific debates cluttered with so much irrationality? The demagogery I have seen from many people who claim to represent the &quot;scientific&quot; side of many technical isssues really confuses me. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matteo, </p>
<p>If Science, by defenition, is rational, why are today&#8217;s scientific debates cluttered with so much irrationality? The demagogery I have seen from many people who claim to represent the &#8220;scientific&#8221; side of many technical isssues really confuses me.</p>
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		<title>By: Matteo</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/01/03/just-how-irrational-can-people-get/#comment-87207</link>
		<dc:creator>Matteo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Jan 2011 16:33:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=14749#comment-87207</guid>
		<description>Mike H,

    I&#039;m afraid your question simply does not compute in this crowd. &lt;em&gt;Science!&lt;/em&gt; is by definition rational, truth-generating and self-correcting, but it seems only as long as the self-correcting is taking place somewhere else, at some other time, among some other people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike H,</p>
<p>    I&#8217;m afraid your question simply does not compute in this crowd. <em>Science!</em> is by definition rational, truth-generating and self-correcting, but it seems only as long as the self-correcting is taking place somewhere else, at some other time, among some other people.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike H</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/01/03/just-how-irrational-can-people-get/#comment-87206</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Jan 2011 16:12:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=14749#comment-87206</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;The religious followers eventually come up with a very specific prediction of disaster, and they then begin to proselytize about it. And of course, the day comes, and they’re wrong.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

How does this notion of cognitive dissonance and the failed apocalyptic prognostications of religious prophets compare and contrast with the failed apocalyptic predictions of individuals like John Holdren, Paul Erlich, Donella Meadows etcetera? Is there a similar level of “cognitive dissonance” between these the secular and religious apocalyptarians?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The religious followers eventually come up with a very specific prediction of disaster, and they then begin to proselytize about it. And of course, the day comes, and they’re wrong.</p></blockquote>
<p>How does this notion of cognitive dissonance and the failed apocalyptic prognostications of religious prophets compare and contrast with the failed apocalyptic predictions of individuals like John Holdren, Paul Erlich, Donella Meadows etcetera? Is there a similar level of “cognitive dissonance” between these the secular and religious apocalyptarians?</p>
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		<title>By: Quick Links &#124; A Blog Around The Clock</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/01/03/just-how-irrational-can-people-get/#comment-87200</link>
		<dc:creator>Quick Links &#124; A Blog Around The Clock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Jan 2011 03:14:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=14749#comment-87200</guid>
		<description>[...] Just How Irrational Can People Get? [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Just How Irrational Can People Get? [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Mooney</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/01/03/just-how-irrational-can-people-get/#comment-87199</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Mooney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Jan 2011 01:55:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=14749#comment-87199</guid>
		<description>Thanks everyone.

This book is really hilarious, and I think it is partly intentional (although honestly, how could you fail with such material!). A few quotes, generally involving the details of the group&#039;s preparations for the end of the world and being &quot;beamed up&quot;:

&quot;Early in the evening each member present was issued a &#039;passport&#039; (a piece of blank stationery and a three-cent stamped envelope) to be shown when boarding the flying saucer that would pick him up....Some members were even assigned a numbered seat on a specified saucer.&quot;

&quot;On December 10, she also asked the question of Bertha--i.e., the Creator. The Creator hesitated a moment before replying, then turned the question back to Marian, asking what light she had on the invitation.&quot;

&quot;In one room downstairs there was an air of excitement. Dr. Armstrong was busily ripping the zipper out of the fly of his trousers...It turns out that all the members in their private consultations with Mrs. Keech had received orders to remove all metal from their persons and had zealously complied...&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks everyone.</p>
<p>This book is really hilarious, and I think it is partly intentional (although honestly, how could you fail with such material!). A few quotes, generally involving the details of the group&#8217;s preparations for the end of the world and being &#8220;beamed up&#8221;:</p>
<p>&#8220;Early in the evening each member present was issued a &#8216;passport&#8217; (a piece of blank stationery and a three-cent stamped envelope) to be shown when boarding the flying saucer that would pick him up&#8230;.Some members were even assigned a numbered seat on a specified saucer.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;On December 10, she also asked the question of Bertha&#8211;i.e., the Creator. The Creator hesitated a moment before replying, then turned the question back to Marian, asking what light she had on the invitation.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;In one room downstairs there was an air of excitement. Dr. Armstrong was busily ripping the zipper out of the fly of his trousers&#8230;It turns out that all the members in their private consultations with Mrs. Keech had received orders to remove all metal from their persons and had zealously complied&#8230;&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: vel</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/01/03/just-how-irrational-can-people-get/#comment-87194</link>
		<dc:creator>vel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Jan 2011 20:06:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=14749#comment-87194</guid>
		<description>ah, like the May 2011 end of the world Christians that have been infesting Pennsylvania&#039;s highways with their crap?  Always nice to see Christians going nuts as often as the other theists,a la the &quot;Great Disappointment&quot;.  I&#039;m sure though that they are sure that &quot;those&quot; people aren&#039;t &quot;TrueChristians&quot;. That&#039;s one way to try to remove cognitive dissonance, even though they do believe in the same nosnense, just not on what day it&#039;ll happen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ah, like the May 2011 end of the world Christians that have been infesting Pennsylvania&#8217;s highways with their crap?  Always nice to see Christians going nuts as often as the other theists,a la the &#8220;Great Disappointment&#8221;.  I&#8217;m sure though that they are sure that &#8220;those&#8221; people aren&#8217;t &#8220;TrueChristians&#8221;. That&#8217;s one way to try to remove cognitive dissonance, even though they do believe in the same nosnense, just not on what day it&#8217;ll happen.</p>
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		<title>By: gregorylent</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/01/03/just-how-irrational-can-people-get/#comment-87191</link>
		<dc:creator>gregorylent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Jan 2011 18:37:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=14749#comment-87191</guid>
		<description>save to say, in the long term most concepts held dearly in the present will prove to be wrong. including, one&#039;s self-concept</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>save to say, in the long term most concepts held dearly in the present will prove to be wrong. including, one&#8217;s self-concept</p>
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		<title>By: Matt B.</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/01/03/just-how-irrational-can-people-get/#comment-87190</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Jan 2011 18:36:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=14749#comment-87190</guid>
		<description>A good example is the hitchhiker in &lt;i&gt;There&#039;s Something About Mary&lt;/i&gt;, who just has to &#039;reset&#039; when his idea for 7-Minute Abs is ruined by Ben Stiller saying, &quot;What if someone comes up with 6-Minute Abs?&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A good example is the hitchhiker in <i>There&#8217;s Something About Mary</i>, who just has to &#8216;reset&#8217; when his idea for 7-Minute Abs is ruined by Ben Stiller saying, &#8220;What if someone comes up with 6-Minute Abs?&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Jon Awbrey</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/01/03/just-how-irrational-can-people-get/#comment-87189</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Awbrey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Jan 2011 18:10:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=14749#comment-87189</guid>
		<description>Two other sources of useful insights and data: 

Dewey, John (1929), The Quest for Certainty : A Study of the Relation of Knowledge and Action, Minton, Balch, and Company, New York, NY. Reprinted, pp. 1–254 in John Dewey, The Later Works, 1925–1953, Volume 4 : 1929, Jo Ann Boydston (ed.), Harriet Furst Simon (text. ed.), Stephen Toulmin (intro.), Southern Illinois University Press, Carbondale and Edwardsville, IL, 1984.

Sorrentino, Richard M., and Roney, Christopher J.R. (2000), The Uncertain Mind : Individual Differences in Facing the Unknown, (Essays in Social Psychology, Miles Hewstone (ed.)), Taylor and Francis, Philadelphia, PA.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Two other sources of useful insights and data: </p>
<p>Dewey, John (1929), The Quest for Certainty : A Study of the Relation of Knowledge and Action, Minton, Balch, and Company, New York, NY. Reprinted, pp. 1–254 in John Dewey, The Later Works, 1925–1953, Volume 4 : 1929, Jo Ann Boydston (ed.), Harriet Furst Simon (text. ed.), Stephen Toulmin (intro.), Southern Illinois University Press, Carbondale and Edwardsville, IL, 1984.</p>
<p>Sorrentino, Richard M., and Roney, Christopher J.R. (2000), The Uncertain Mind : Individual Differences in Facing the Unknown, (Essays in Social Psychology, Miles Hewstone (ed.)), Taylor and Francis, Philadelphia, PA.</p>
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		<title>By: ThomasL</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/01/03/just-how-irrational-can-people-get/#comment-87187</link>
		<dc:creator>ThomasL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Jan 2011 17:45:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=14749#comment-87187</guid>
		<description>I’m glad you are reading this book Chris.  We have discussed in here (in the threads at least) the idea that people are not nearly as “rational” or “logical” as we like to think they are -&gt; of course one might think the need to have classes to not only study, but actually learn what such a style of thinking is would be the first clue that we are not actually very “logical” or “rational” to begin with.  One might add that it appears from the historical record that our species had been around for an awful long time before anyone bothered to write down what “rational” or “logical” might look like -&gt; today we call it “Western Civilization” or simply “The Scientific Method”.  Giving it a name implies it is not the only path available to us, and was not the path previously held in vogue…).  The scientific method is wonderful for understanding how to manipulate inanimate objects and can even be useful (to a point) in manipulating living beings in the world around one as well.

That last part has always lead to splits and misunderstandings in “education” (in quotes because here I mean formal education that has divided areas of knowledge into distinct sub categories such as “math”, “reading”, “history” or what not – in the real world there are no such clear distinctions and all areas of knowledge tend to overlap…).

My only advice to you is that rather than reading it as a “what silly people *THEY* are” type thing, one would be much better served to realize that we are actually all very much like that, though perhaps we are better at using academic methods to make it less apparent.

If you doubt such I suggest you start laying out all the “rational” and “logical” reasons for why two people in a relationship (any relationship – friendship, marriage or what have you) should or should not be in such.  Make a bunch of logical rules about what such “is” (as in a friend would never cheat me, for example) and then see if there is a single real world relationship out there that hasn’t blown holes in almost all of those “rules”.

Logic says the rules are the rules.

Life says otherwise, and that we misunderstand ourselves in a very detrimental way if we miss that point.

One of those things all those in the “hard” sciences seem to have a real hard time grasping as they point out to many of us why no one needs to study those social things…</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I’m glad you are reading this book Chris.  We have discussed in here (in the threads at least) the idea that people are not nearly as “rational” or “logical” as we like to think they are -&gt; of course one might think the need to have classes to not only study, but actually learn what such a style of thinking is would be the first clue that we are not actually very “logical” or “rational” to begin with.  One might add that it appears from the historical record that our species had been around for an awful long time before anyone bothered to write down what “rational” or “logical” might look like -&gt; today we call it “Western Civilization” or simply “The Scientific Method”.  Giving it a name implies it is not the only path available to us, and was not the path previously held in vogue…).  The scientific method is wonderful for understanding how to manipulate inanimate objects and can even be useful (to a point) in manipulating living beings in the world around one as well.</p>
<p>That last part has always lead to splits and misunderstandings in “education” (in quotes because here I mean formal education that has divided areas of knowledge into distinct sub categories such as “math”, “reading”, “history” or what not – in the real world there are no such clear distinctions and all areas of knowledge tend to overlap…).</p>
<p>My only advice to you is that rather than reading it as a “what silly people *THEY* are” type thing, one would be much better served to realize that we are actually all very much like that, though perhaps we are better at using academic methods to make it less apparent.</p>
<p>If you doubt such I suggest you start laying out all the “rational” and “logical” reasons for why two people in a relationship (any relationship – friendship, marriage or what have you) should or should not be in such.  Make a bunch of logical rules about what such “is” (as in a friend would never cheat me, for example) and then see if there is a single real world relationship out there that hasn’t blown holes in almost all of those “rules”.</p>
<p>Logic says the rules are the rules.</p>
<p>Life says otherwise, and that we misunderstand ourselves in a very detrimental way if we miss that point.</p>
<p>One of those things all those in the “hard” sciences seem to have a real hard time grasping as they point out to many of us why no one needs to study those social things…</p>
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