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	<title>Comments on: Actual Creationism (and Ample Cowardice) in US High School Biology Classes</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/02/08/de-facto-creationism-and-ample-cowardice-in-us-biology-classes/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/02/08/de-facto-creationism-and-ample-cowardice-in-us-biology-classes/</link>
	<description>Where science collides with life, slams into culture, crashes with politics, and gets totaled.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 27 Sep 2011 17:28:30 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: JRF</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/02/08/de-facto-creationism-and-ample-cowardice-in-us-biology-classes/#comment-88108</link>
		<dc:creator>JRF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Feb 2011 04:08:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=15868#comment-88108</guid>
		<description>Why is it that many religions and religious persons have come to terms with the idea that science will continually uncover more and more understanding of how the natural world works, and are not threatened by it, while others resist every step of the way and insist on a flat earth mentality?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why is it that many religions and religious persons have come to terms with the idea that science will continually uncover more and more understanding of how the natural world works, and are not threatened by it, while others resist every step of the way and insist on a flat earth mentality?</p>
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		<title>By: 13 Years of Catholic Education</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/02/08/de-facto-creationism-and-ample-cowardice-in-us-biology-classes/#comment-88082</link>
		<dc:creator>13 Years of Catholic Education</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Feb 2011 16:47:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=15868#comment-88082</guid>
		<description>Oh my... even in my Catholic school in the 60s and 70s, creationism was taught in religion class and evolution in science class.   This debate, however, is unbelievable!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh my&#8230; even in my Catholic school in the 60s and 70s, creationism was taught in religion class and evolution in science class.   This debate, however, is unbelievable!</p>
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		<title>By: BS Science &#8211; Creationism (via Dr. Sci-Psy) &#171; Fabio Ticconi&#039;s Academic Blog</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/02/08/de-facto-creationism-and-ample-cowardice-in-us-biology-classes/#comment-88071</link>
		<dc:creator>BS Science &#8211; Creationism (via Dr. Sci-Psy) &#171; Fabio Ticconi&#039;s Academic Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Feb 2011 23:48:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=15868#comment-88071</guid>
		<description>[...] De Facto Creationism (and Ample Cowardice) in US Biology Classes &#124; The Intersection (blogs.discovermagazine.com) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] De Facto Creationism (and Ample Cowardice) in US Biology Classes | The Intersection (blogs.discovermagazine.com) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Nullius in Verba</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/02/08/de-facto-creationism-and-ample-cowardice-in-us-biology-classes/#comment-88057</link>
		<dc:creator>Nullius in Verba</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Feb 2011 18:35:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=15868#comment-88057</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;I’m a science teacher in the Midwest and I don’t see that teaching the possibility of creation or intelligent design is bold in the least. In fact, NOT teaching it is quite UNscientific. It is a possibility that you can’t disprove, no matter how much you clearly would love to.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Surely the easiest way to do so is to show examples of design that are clearly &lt;i&gt;unintelligent?&lt;/i&gt; If we can show unambiguous examples of gross stupidity, incompetence, and inefficiency (not to mention extreme immorality) in the design of certain organisms, then we can make certain deductions about any hypothetical designer, which will contradict most of the usual religious hypotheses. Yes?

(Indeed, with the possible exception of the Gnostic heresy and their demiurge theory, many might think it ought to be considered blasphemous to accuse the Gods of being so incompetent and evil. That&#039;s not a scientific argument, but it ought to give the religious reason to pause.)

It is true that science cannot prove absolutely that &lt;i&gt;every&lt;/i&gt; conceivable &#039;intentional designer&#039;  hypothesis is untrue, but we &lt;i&gt;can&lt;/i&gt; actually disprove a lot of &lt;i&gt;specific&lt;/i&gt; designer hypotheses.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;I’m a science teacher in the Midwest and I don’t see that teaching the possibility of creation or intelligent design is bold in the least. In fact, NOT teaching it is quite UNscientific. It is a possibility that you can’t disprove, no matter how much you clearly would love to.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Surely the easiest way to do so is to show examples of design that are clearly <i>unintelligent?</i> If we can show unambiguous examples of gross stupidity, incompetence, and inefficiency (not to mention extreme immorality) in the design of certain organisms, then we can make certain deductions about any hypothetical designer, which will contradict most of the usual religious hypotheses. Yes?</p>
<p>(Indeed, with the possible exception of the Gnostic heresy and their demiurge theory, many might think it ought to be considered blasphemous to accuse the Gods of being so incompetent and evil. That&#8217;s not a scientific argument, but it ought to give the religious reason to pause.)</p>
<p>It is true that science cannot prove absolutely that <i>every</i> conceivable &#8216;intentional designer&#8217;  hypothesis is untrue, but we <i>can</i> actually disprove a lot of <i>specific</i> designer hypotheses.</p>
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		<title>By: Jinchi</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/02/08/de-facto-creationism-and-ample-cowardice-in-us-biology-classes/#comment-88056</link>
		<dc:creator>Jinchi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Feb 2011 17:52:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=15868#comment-88056</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Good article but why are you so opposed to exposing children to all views and letting them decide?&lt;/i&gt;

All views? How many creation stories are you going to include in your biology class?

My guess is that many parents would be just fine with you teaching creationism alongside evolution, right up until you start teaching their kids somebody else&#039;s  mythology.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Good article but why are you so opposed to exposing children to all views and letting them decide?</i></p>
<p>All views? How many creation stories are you going to include in your biology class?</p>
<p>My guess is that many parents would be just fine with you teaching creationism alongside evolution, right up until you start teaching their kids somebody else&#8217;s  mythology.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric the Leaf</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/02/08/de-facto-creationism-and-ample-cowardice-in-us-biology-classes/#comment-88055</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric the Leaf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Feb 2011 17:28:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=15868#comment-88055</guid>
		<description>It is wrong to equate the &quot;accurate&quot; teaching of the science of evolution with &quot;good&quot; science teaching. It doesn&#039;t really tell you how the science is taught.

Controversy surrounding the interface between science and religion in public schools is long-standing and often only resolved in court. But science education in public school systems has changed quite a bit over the last few decades, and not for the better. This story is neglected by journalists, I think because it is not a &quot;sexy,&quot; hot-button topic like the teaching of creationism in public schools. That&#039;s a shame.

One important culprit is the National Science Education Standards as promulgated by the National Research Council itself, as interpreted by state boards of education, and as applied in high-stakes comprehensive testing at various grade levels.

Today&#039;s notion of science education reform involves the words &quot;accountability&quot; and &quot;testing.&quot; In a previous era, reform involved &quot;designing good courses&quot; and &quot;training teachers to teach them.&quot;

This is the real problem with science education. Not the the creationism/evolution debate, even if it still rages.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is wrong to equate the &#8220;accurate&#8221; teaching of the science of evolution with &#8220;good&#8221; science teaching. It doesn&#8217;t really tell you how the science is taught.</p>
<p>Controversy surrounding the interface between science and religion in public schools is long-standing and often only resolved in court. But science education in public school systems has changed quite a bit over the last few decades, and not for the better. This story is neglected by journalists, I think because it is not a &#8220;sexy,&#8221; hot-button topic like the teaching of creationism in public schools. That&#8217;s a shame.</p>
<p>One important culprit is the National Science Education Standards as promulgated by the National Research Council itself, as interpreted by state boards of education, and as applied in high-stakes comprehensive testing at various grade levels.</p>
<p>Today&#8217;s notion of science education reform involves the words &#8220;accountability&#8221; and &#8220;testing.&#8221; In a previous era, reform involved &#8220;designing good courses&#8221; and &#8220;training teachers to teach them.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is the real problem with science education. Not the the creationism/evolution debate, even if it still rages.</p>
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		<title>By: Gr215</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/02/08/de-facto-creationism-and-ample-cowardice-in-us-biology-classes/#comment-88049</link>
		<dc:creator>Gr215</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Feb 2011 16:42:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=15868#comment-88049</guid>
		<description>The greater problem here isn&#039;t evolution vs creationism.  Clearly, the majority of scientific evidence fits into an evolutionary model, and it should be presented as such.  Whether other ideas or even less scientific concepts are also provided is a decision best left to the teacher, so long as evolution is accurately presented.

What is troubling, and truly dangerous, is the author&#039;s misunderstanding of science and the scientific process.  The belief that an all knowing group known as the &quot;scientific community&quot; decree what is true or not true, and that disagreement with that prognosis is proof positive of how silly and ignorant one is, stifles real scientific advancement.  

Not all children are going to grow up to be biologists, or even use biology very often in their daily lives.  What they will need is the ability to reach rational conclusions based on the evidence at hand.  Does a 15-year-old have enough information to question the scientific community?  No.  That&#039;s why they are in school.  They must be taught to question everything and evaluate their opinions according to the evidence.  Insisting they believe what their teacher says because they are too inferior to understand the difference is the exact opposite of what scientific education must be.

I&#039;m not advocating creationism.  I&#039;m advocating the teaching of scientific evaluation.  The author&#039;s assertion that the 28% of teachers who don&#039;t immediately burn creationists at the stake as heretics are the ones to be commended is extremely misguided, with horrible implications far beyond the evolution debate.  That philosophy leads to lock-step, unquestioning drones, not future scientists.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The greater problem here isn&#8217;t evolution vs creationism.  Clearly, the majority of scientific evidence fits into an evolutionary model, and it should be presented as such.  Whether other ideas or even less scientific concepts are also provided is a decision best left to the teacher, so long as evolution is accurately presented.</p>
<p>What is troubling, and truly dangerous, is the author&#8217;s misunderstanding of science and the scientific process.  The belief that an all knowing group known as the &#8220;scientific community&#8221; decree what is true or not true, and that disagreement with that prognosis is proof positive of how silly and ignorant one is, stifles real scientific advancement.  </p>
<p>Not all children are going to grow up to be biologists, or even use biology very often in their daily lives.  What they will need is the ability to reach rational conclusions based on the evidence at hand.  Does a 15-year-old have enough information to question the scientific community?  No.  That&#8217;s why they are in school.  They must be taught to question everything and evaluate their opinions according to the evidence.  Insisting they believe what their teacher says because they are too inferior to understand the difference is the exact opposite of what scientific education must be.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not advocating creationism.  I&#8217;m advocating the teaching of scientific evaluation.  The author&#8217;s assertion that the 28% of teachers who don&#8217;t immediately burn creationists at the stake as heretics are the ones to be commended is extremely misguided, with horrible implications far beyond the evolution debate.  That philosophy leads to lock-step, unquestioning drones, not future scientists.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris F.</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/02/08/de-facto-creationism-and-ample-cowardice-in-us-biology-classes/#comment-88048</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris F.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Feb 2011 16:41:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=15868#comment-88048</guid>
		<description>Mike, do you mean if a hypothesis cannot be proven wrong it is of no use as a hypothesis? Since if a hypothesis &quot;can&quot; be proven wrong, but it in fact &quot;isn&#039;t&quot; proven wrong byexperimentation by enough people then it is considered a Theory. On another note, it reminds me of legalizing gay marriage. As someone who supports gay marriage, I have no interest telling different religions what to do in their place of worship, but why do they feel like they can tell City Hall what to do? Let creationism be taught in religion class and let science be taught in science class. Aren&#039;t they non-overlapping magesteria? Shout out to the memory of Stephen Jay!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike, do you mean if a hypothesis cannot be proven wrong it is of no use as a hypothesis? Since if a hypothesis &#8220;can&#8221; be proven wrong, but it in fact &#8220;isn&#8217;t&#8221; proven wrong byexperimentation by enough people then it is considered a Theory. On another note, it reminds me of legalizing gay marriage. As someone who supports gay marriage, I have no interest telling different religions what to do in their place of worship, but why do they feel like they can tell City Hall what to do? Let creationism be taught in religion class and let science be taught in science class. Aren&#8217;t they non-overlapping magesteria? Shout out to the memory of Stephen Jay!</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/02/08/de-facto-creationism-and-ample-cowardice-in-us-biology-classes/#comment-88037</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Feb 2011 10:41:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=15868#comment-88037</guid>
		<description>I think the &quot;You don&#039;t have to believe this, just understand this&quot; approach can be a good one if you know that a majority of the students will have pre-existing opinions.  If they&#039;re already disposed to not &quot;believe&quot; in evolution, they&#039;re just going to reject anything that is seen as trying to change their minds.  Stating you don&#039;t care if their beliefs change or not may help them to at least let the information in.

And, in the end, it *doesn&#039;t* matter if they believe or not.  It only matters that they understand - actually understand - the theory, and why it is the backbone of biology.

The &quot;why shouldn&#039;t we teach both sides in science class&quot; argument always comes down to someone saying &quot;But you can&#039;t *disprove* Creationism or Intelligent Design!&quot;.  And that is *precisely* why they aren&#039;t science.  Any scientist dealing with evolution will be able to state what it would take to change their mind on evolution.  Falsifiability is a cornerstone of the scientific method.  If a theory cannot be proven wrong it is no use as a theory, and has to be discarded.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the &#8220;You don&#8217;t have to believe this, just understand this&#8221; approach can be a good one if you know that a majority of the students will have pre-existing opinions.  If they&#8217;re already disposed to not &#8220;believe&#8221; in evolution, they&#8217;re just going to reject anything that is seen as trying to change their minds.  Stating you don&#8217;t care if their beliefs change or not may help them to at least let the information in.</p>
<p>And, in the end, it *doesn&#8217;t* matter if they believe or not.  It only matters that they understand &#8211; actually understand &#8211; the theory, and why it is the backbone of biology.</p>
<p>The &#8220;why shouldn&#8217;t we teach both sides in science class&#8221; argument always comes down to someone saying &#8220;But you can&#8217;t *disprove* Creationism or Intelligent Design!&#8221;.  And that is *precisely* why they aren&#8217;t science.  Any scientist dealing with evolution will be able to state what it would take to change their mind on evolution.  Falsifiability is a cornerstone of the scientific method.  If a theory cannot be proven wrong it is no use as a theory, and has to be discarded.</p>
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		<title>By: Sion</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/02/08/de-facto-creationism-and-ample-cowardice-in-us-biology-classes/#comment-88036</link>
		<dc:creator>Sion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Feb 2011 10:12:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=15868#comment-88036</guid>
		<description>So, a question to all those who think that creationism has validity in a science class: which creation theory do you teach? 
A few moments looking up creation myths will reveal dozens (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_creation_myths), so do you think there might be a bit of personal bias creeping in when the main one that you want to teach just happens to be the judaeo-christian one you happen to have been raised to believe?

&quot;Oh, we just want to expose students to other viewpoints&quot; you cry, so come on then, teach them about all the other creation myths too. 

While you&#039;re at it you might as well teach the Flat-Earth hypothesis in geography lessons (Teach the Controversy!) and Alchemy in chemistry classes (Teach the Controversy!)

Facepalm.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, a question to all those who think that creationism has validity in a science class: which creation theory do you teach?<br />
A few moments looking up creation myths will reveal dozens (<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_creation_myths" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_creation_myths</a>), so do you think there might be a bit of personal bias creeping in when the main one that you want to teach just happens to be the judaeo-christian one you happen to have been raised to believe?</p>
<p>&#8220;Oh, we just want to expose students to other viewpoints&#8221; you cry, so come on then, teach them about all the other creation myths too. </p>
<p>While you&#8217;re at it you might as well teach the Flat-Earth hypothesis in geography lessons (Teach the Controversy!) and Alchemy in chemistry classes (Teach the Controversy!)</p>
<p>Facepalm.</p>
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