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	<title>Comments on: Liberals, Conservatives, and Science</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/02/23/liberals-conservatives-and-science/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/02/23/liberals-conservatives-and-science/</link>
	<description>Where science collides with life, slams into culture, crashes with politics, and gets totaled.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 27 Sep 2011 17:28:30 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: More on the Psychology of Liberals and Conservatives &#124; The Intersection &#124; Discover Magazine</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/02/23/liberals-conservatives-and-science/#comment-90285</link>
		<dc:creator>More on the Psychology of Liberals and Conservatives &#124; The Intersection &#124; Discover Magazine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Mar 2011 15:57:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=16135#comment-90285</guid>
		<description>[...] post last week on &#8220;Liberals, Conservatives, and Science&#8221; triggered a response from a researcher, Everett Young of Washington University in St. Louis, who studies and teaches [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] post last week on &#8220;Liberals, Conservatives, and Science&#8221; triggered a response from a researcher, Everett Young of Washington University in St. Louis, who studies and teaches [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Mooney</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/02/23/liberals-conservatives-and-science/#comment-89878</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Mooney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Feb 2011 16:20:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=16135#comment-89878</guid>
		<description>Well, Everett, that really throws down the gauntlet. I think we are going to have to explore your position more but I may make it a post all to itself. We&#039;ll have to get the point about the parties changing (your second paragraph) out of the way first, so that nobody is confused by it any longer....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, Everett, that really throws down the gauntlet. I think we are going to have to explore your position more but I may make it a post all to itself. We&#8217;ll have to get the point about the parties changing (your second paragraph) out of the way first, so that nobody is confused by it any longer&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Everett Young</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/02/23/liberals-conservatives-and-science/#comment-89787</link>
		<dc:creator>Everett Young</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Feb 2011 00:57:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=16135#comment-89787</guid>
		<description>I think if you look at the political science literature over the last few decades, the burden of proof has shifted dramatically onto those who would deny a psychology-ideology link. Even without Jost, the evidence has grown into somewhat of a mountain. And Alford, et al.&#039;s findings on genetics are only controversial insofar as people don&#039;t like them. The evidence for a genetics-ideology link is also overpowering, even if we haven&#039;t mapped out exactly how it happens.

Moreover, the suggestion that the Republican party&#039;s being less anti-science in the early 1970s than it is today is evidence that science is, under the right cultural circumstances, equally compatible with a conservative psychology says little, too, because the Republican and Democratic parties were very different then than they are today, and surely aren&#039;t synonymous with right-left ideology. Even today they are STILL not synonymous with conservatism and liberalism, but they were much farther away then from being so.

The reason why more scientists are liberal can hardly be divorced from the question of why academics generally are liberal. If the psychological profile that produces curiosity and the desire to learn both makes one liberal and makes one more likely an academic, then its making one a scientist is barely in need of explanation.

Chris is right that some model must be proposed to explain HOW a cognitively flexible (rigid) psychology produces liberal (conservative) opinion formation. However, Jost and others (including me) have done exactly that. I agree more with some researchers&#039; ideas than others&#039;, however, I don&#039;t think it can be said any longer that the default assumption, against which we are Quixotically tilting, is that there are no psychological differences between libs and cons. The psychological differences are well documented, and the hypothesis that they are the RESULT of ideology rather than the other way around is by far the less parsimonious, more strained one.

The need to map out HOW, in greater and greater detail, psychological variables produce systematic left-right differences opinion formation is the task set before political psychology. However, the need to establish that, at least to some extent, it happens, has been surmounted in my opinion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think if you look at the political science literature over the last few decades, the burden of proof has shifted dramatically onto those who would deny a psychology-ideology link. Even without Jost, the evidence has grown into somewhat of a mountain. And Alford, et al.&#8217;s findings on genetics are only controversial insofar as people don&#8217;t like them. The evidence for a genetics-ideology link is also overpowering, even if we haven&#8217;t mapped out exactly how it happens.</p>
<p>Moreover, the suggestion that the Republican party&#8217;s being less anti-science in the early 1970s than it is today is evidence that science is, under the right cultural circumstances, equally compatible with a conservative psychology says little, too, because the Republican and Democratic parties were very different then than they are today, and surely aren&#8217;t synonymous with right-left ideology. Even today they are STILL not synonymous with conservatism and liberalism, but they were much farther away then from being so.</p>
<p>The reason why more scientists are liberal can hardly be divorced from the question of why academics generally are liberal. If the psychological profile that produces curiosity and the desire to learn both makes one liberal and makes one more likely an academic, then its making one a scientist is barely in need of explanation.</p>
<p>Chris is right that some model must be proposed to explain HOW a cognitively flexible (rigid) psychology produces liberal (conservative) opinion formation. However, Jost and others (including me) have done exactly that. I agree more with some researchers&#8217; ideas than others&#8217;, however, I don&#8217;t think it can be said any longer that the default assumption, against which we are Quixotically tilting, is that there are no psychological differences between libs and cons. The psychological differences are well documented, and the hypothesis that they are the RESULT of ideology rather than the other way around is by far the less parsimonious, more strained one.</p>
<p>The need to map out HOW, in greater and greater detail, psychological variables produce systematic left-right differences opinion formation is the task set before political psychology. However, the need to establish that, at least to some extent, it happens, has been surmounted in my opinion.</p>
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		<title>By: Colin</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/02/23/liberals-conservatives-and-science/#comment-89727</link>
		<dc:creator>Colin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Feb 2011 15:31:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=16135#comment-89727</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
To me it seems like science stayed where it was while the political spectrum as a whole moved a whole lot to the right.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

You can confirm or refute that by looking at the writings and research topics of the academia from the 50s and 60s and comparing them to the writings today. You&#039;ll see that the viewpoints have not stayed the same. What was a more inclusive set of writing from every political landscape in the 50s and 60s started to lose voices on the right and gain voices on the far left in the 70s, lost a lot more in the 80s, but also some far left voices in the 90s and then lost many more on the right in the Aughts.

My theory is that the Beltway gobbled up a lot of right leaning thinkers who were left in the Aughts in response to 9/11. There are plenty of think tanks and contractors who would pay for their services, and pay better. Since they weren&#039;t happy in the left leaning university environment, they left.  Essentially, it was political and it is bad for science.

Some here seem to think that conservatism is innately tied to anti-science, religious ideas. That is a large segment of conservatives, but not all. Worse, some here conflate libertarians with conservatives, but since they conflate progressives with liberals, that&#039;s understandable. Progressives are against liberal ideals and conservatives are against libertarian ideals, and vice versa, but that is the nature of a two-party system. Tribes form that have nothing to do with each other ideologically, but everything to do with each other politically.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>
To me it seems like science stayed where it was while the political spectrum as a whole moved a whole lot to the right.
</p></blockquote>
<p>You can confirm or refute that by looking at the writings and research topics of the academia from the 50s and 60s and comparing them to the writings today. You&#8217;ll see that the viewpoints have not stayed the same. What was a more inclusive set of writing from every political landscape in the 50s and 60s started to lose voices on the right and gain voices on the far left in the 70s, lost a lot more in the 80s, but also some far left voices in the 90s and then lost many more on the right in the Aughts.</p>
<p>My theory is that the Beltway gobbled up a lot of right leaning thinkers who were left in the Aughts in response to 9/11. There are plenty of think tanks and contractors who would pay for their services, and pay better. Since they weren&#8217;t happy in the left leaning university environment, they left.  Essentially, it was political and it is bad for science.</p>
<p>Some here seem to think that conservatism is innately tied to anti-science, religious ideas. That is a large segment of conservatives, but not all. Worse, some here conflate libertarians with conservatives, but since they conflate progressives with liberals, that&#8217;s understandable. Progressives are against liberal ideals and conservatives are against libertarian ideals, and vice versa, but that is the nature of a two-party system. Tribes form that have nothing to do with each other ideologically, but everything to do with each other politically.</p>
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		<title>By: Martijn ter Haar</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/02/23/liberals-conservatives-and-science/#comment-89446</link>
		<dc:creator>Martijn ter Haar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Feb 2011 19:18:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=16135#comment-89446</guid>
		<description>In the sixties and seventies there was a big anti-science movement on the left. Think of all those post-modernists who claimed science is nothing but a construction by rich, white males to oppress the rest of the world, Marxist voodoo-economics, anti-psychology and &quot;back to nature&quot; anti-technology hippiedom. So I don&#039;t think there is anything that pre-disposes conservatives to be anti-science.

To me it seems like science stayed where it was while the political spectrum as a whole moved a whole lot to the right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the sixties and seventies there was a big anti-science movement on the left. Think of all those post-modernists who claimed science is nothing but a construction by rich, white males to oppress the rest of the world, Marxist voodoo-economics, anti-psychology and &#8220;back to nature&#8221; anti-technology hippiedom. So I don&#8217;t think there is anything that pre-disposes conservatives to be anti-science.</p>
<p>To me it seems like science stayed where it was while the political spectrum as a whole moved a whole lot to the right.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/02/23/liberals-conservatives-and-science/#comment-89410</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Feb 2011 15:17:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=16135#comment-89410</guid>
		<description>I find this whole discussion interesting.  The only real money for science and scientific research, as it has been since WW II, comes from the military industrial complex to build better weapons.  It has produced some side effects that have benefited humanity as a whole, but has destroyed far more than it has saved.  Most of the rest of the money is from the benefaction of corporate interests looking to turn research into dollars.  Neither one of which I would describe as being liberal causes.  If the scientists who work there espouse liberalism, then, what hypocrites they must be.  Mirror sales must be at an all time low in their vicinity.  

Given the lack of ethics that should accompany our science, which, in my experience, ethics is a devoid consideration in the research or usage of science, I can not think of a place where liberalism would be more lacking.  

Add to this a quick visit to the MIT campus, of which I am familiar, and you would be hard pressed to find these supposed liberals.  They are down the street at that other university that shares TheCoop.

If true that most scientists are liberals, I fail to see their practice on display in modern science for sure.  Of course, these are just my anecdotes not based on any particular study other than personal  observation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find this whole discussion interesting.  The only real money for science and scientific research, as it has been since WW II, comes from the military industrial complex to build better weapons.  It has produced some side effects that have benefited humanity as a whole, but has destroyed far more than it has saved.  Most of the rest of the money is from the benefaction of corporate interests looking to turn research into dollars.  Neither one of which I would describe as being liberal causes.  If the scientists who work there espouse liberalism, then, what hypocrites they must be.  Mirror sales must be at an all time low in their vicinity.  </p>
<p>Given the lack of ethics that should accompany our science, which, in my experience, ethics is a devoid consideration in the research or usage of science, I can not think of a place where liberalism would be more lacking.  </p>
<p>Add to this a quick visit to the MIT campus, of which I am familiar, and you would be hard pressed to find these supposed liberals.  They are down the street at that other university that shares TheCoop.</p>
<p>If true that most scientists are liberals, I fail to see their practice on display in modern science for sure.  Of course, these are just my anecdotes not based on any particular study other than personal  observation.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim T</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/02/23/liberals-conservatives-and-science/#comment-89387</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim T</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Feb 2011 11:59:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=16135#comment-89387</guid>
		<description>One experiment: Ask someone why someone else is poor.

Political left will tend to argue that it&#039;s circumstance.
Political right will tend to argue that it&#039;s the poor person&#039;s personal failing.
(apparently, citation needed)

Assuming this is true, can we stretch it to assume that political left will tend to look outward for answers, right will look inward?

Stretching further, does looking outwards gel well with the scientific view?

Hmm, just thinking</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One experiment: Ask someone why someone else is poor.</p>
<p>Political left will tend to argue that it&#8217;s circumstance.<br />
Political right will tend to argue that it&#8217;s the poor person&#8217;s personal failing.<br />
(apparently, citation needed)</p>
<p>Assuming this is true, can we stretch it to assume that political left will tend to look outward for answers, right will look inward?</p>
<p>Stretching further, does looking outwards gel well with the scientific view?</p>
<p>Hmm, just thinking</p>
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		<title>By: Mr Z</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/02/23/liberals-conservatives-and-science/#comment-89358</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr Z</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Feb 2011 01:08:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=16135#comment-89358</guid>
		<description>Let me jump in (splash)
We barely understand the mechanisms of the human brain, but we are beginning to get indications of how it functions at lower levels which translate directly to perceptions, values, and thought process weighting... among other things.

At this point it is difficult to draw any conclusion with certainty, but we CAN conclude that there is much more we need to know. That there are seemingly 5 variants or categories of &#039;thinking&#039; is indicative that these are based in neuronal design. Indicative,  not concretely understood. When you stop to think of it, it makes sense then that certain political thinking would be associated with certain other social group constructs. In fact, you should be surprised if it did not. It was not that long ago that there were black, white, and gray understandings of mental health. As I understand things we now think of things more as part of a continuum of mental health. Any given persons mental health is a blur of points on the continuum, rather than sitting stately like at some given point.  So it should be with politics, and this explains why there are no hard and fast rules of who is which sect of what party. Generalizations though, should follow some general pattern of neuronal capacities.

As I have learned more about the universe around me, my political views have changed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let me jump in (splash)<br />
We barely understand the mechanisms of the human brain, but we are beginning to get indications of how it functions at lower levels which translate directly to perceptions, values, and thought process weighting&#8230; among other things.</p>
<p>At this point it is difficult to draw any conclusion with certainty, but we CAN conclude that there is much more we need to know. That there are seemingly 5 variants or categories of &#8216;thinking&#8217; is indicative that these are based in neuronal design. Indicative,  not concretely understood. When you stop to think of it, it makes sense then that certain political thinking would be associated with certain other social group constructs. In fact, you should be surprised if it did not. It was not that long ago that there were black, white, and gray understandings of mental health. As I understand things we now think of things more as part of a continuum of mental health. Any given persons mental health is a blur of points on the continuum, rather than sitting stately like at some given point.  So it should be with politics, and this explains why there are no hard and fast rules of who is which sect of what party. Generalizations though, should follow some general pattern of neuronal capacities.</p>
<p>As I have learned more about the universe around me, my political views have changed.</p>
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		<title>By: Gaythia</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/02/23/liberals-conservatives-and-science/#comment-89356</link>
		<dc:creator>Gaythia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Feb 2011 00:35:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=16135#comment-89356</guid>
		<description>Or maybe something like the inverse of #13.  More of the conservatives left for better paying jobs in industry and in think tanks, and more of the liberals, after postdoc-ing nearly forever, finally make it into a permanent job at the university.

Quoting from the link given in #12:

&quot;We do take note, however, of two
phenomena germane to our study: on the one hand, the conservative strategy of
attempting to influence public opinion on a wide variety of matters by starting thinktanks
– most independent of academe – funded by conservative foundations that would
build and then leverage ties to the increasingly consolidated mass media in order to get
their message across (Ricci 1994; Smith 1991; Stefancic and Delgado 1996); and on the
other hand, the rhetorical strategy that accompanied this institution-building effort of
calling into question the legitimacy of intellectuals on the other side of the political aisle
who would contest conservative claims.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Or maybe something like the inverse of #13.  More of the conservatives left for better paying jobs in industry and in think tanks, and more of the liberals, after postdoc-ing nearly forever, finally make it into a permanent job at the university.</p>
<p>Quoting from the link given in #12:</p>
<p>&#8220;We do take note, however, of two<br />
phenomena germane to our study: on the one hand, the conservative strategy of<br />
attempting to influence public opinion on a wide variety of matters by starting thinktanks<br />
– most independent of academe – funded by conservative foundations that would<br />
build and then leverage ties to the increasingly consolidated mass media in order to get<br />
their message across (Ricci 1994; Smith 1991; Stefancic and Delgado 1996); and on the<br />
other hand, the rhetorical strategy that accompanied this institution-building effort of<br />
calling into question the legitimacy of intellectuals on the other side of the political aisle<br />
who would contest conservative claims.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/02/23/liberals-conservatives-and-science/#comment-89354</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Feb 2011 23:48:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=16135#comment-89354</guid>
		<description>Perhaps you should consider the bias of the educational process at the postgraduate level?  That the like-minded  are encouraged to continue and those that irritate are encouraged to exit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps you should consider the bias of the educational process at the postgraduate level?  That the like-minded  are encouraged to continue and those that irritate are encouraged to exit.</p>
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