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	<title>Comments on: The Movement Conservative Style: Men without Footnotes</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/06/16/the-movement-conservative-style-men-without-footnotes/</link>
	<description>Where science collides with life, slams into culture, crashes with politics, and gets totaled.</description>
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		<title>By: Nullius in Verba</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/06/16/the-movement-conservative-style-men-without-footnotes/#comment-105369</link>
		<dc:creator>Nullius in Verba</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Jun 2011 14:11:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=18858#comment-105369</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;Being “without footnotes,” or not being forthcoming with sources of information, can be a sign that you’re not playing the same good faith game as everyone else. You’re not willing to lay down your marker on the table and have it discussed. It seems to show a lack of respect for values that a country founded on Enlightenment principles should hold dear.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

That&#039;s a sentiment that I very much agree with. (Surprised?)

Of course, the standard reply is: &quot;Why should I make the data available to you, when your aim is to try and find something wrong with it?&quot;

I think figures like Limbaugh and Will talk to an intended audience who already share their beliefs and sources, so in their work as it stands footnotes would be redundant. But where there is evidence to support their positions available, and where opponents or the unconvinced are interested, then it is of course sensible for them to share it on request. If they&#039;re right, they may gain more followers or score a point, if they&#039;re wrong, they can clarify or improve their own arguments and make them more unassailable, while acquiring a reputation (deserved or not) for fairness and honesty in debate. Refusing to share your data openly will immediately invalidate your claims in the eyes of anyone who respects Enlightenment or scientific values.

The rules of politics are not the same as those of science or enlightened debate, though. It&#039;s part of the reason politicians and political operators have the reputation for truth and honesty that they do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;Being “without footnotes,” or not being forthcoming with sources of information, can be a sign that you’re not playing the same good faith game as everyone else. You’re not willing to lay down your marker on the table and have it discussed. It seems to show a lack of respect for values that a country founded on Enlightenment principles should hold dear.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>That&#8217;s a sentiment that I very much agree with. (Surprised?)</p>
<p>Of course, the standard reply is: &#8220;Why should I make the data available to you, when your aim is to try and find something wrong with it?&#8221;</p>
<p>I think figures like Limbaugh and Will talk to an intended audience who already share their beliefs and sources, so in their work as it stands footnotes would be redundant. But where there is evidence to support their positions available, and where opponents or the unconvinced are interested, then it is of course sensible for them to share it on request. If they&#8217;re right, they may gain more followers or score a point, if they&#8217;re wrong, they can clarify or improve their own arguments and make them more unassailable, while acquiring a reputation (deserved or not) for fairness and honesty in debate. Refusing to share your data openly will immediately invalidate your claims in the eyes of anyone who respects Enlightenment or scientific values.</p>
<p>The rules of politics are not the same as those of science or enlightened debate, though. It&#8217;s part of the reason politicians and political operators have the reputation for truth and honesty that they do.</p>
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		<title>By: The Intersection</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/06/16/the-movement-conservative-style-men-without-footnotes/#comment-105262</link>
		<dc:creator>The Intersection</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jun 2011 15:40:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=18858#comment-105262</guid>
		<description>@1 &quot;Kristol was a genius&quot;...an evil genius (similar to Rove, Limbaugh and some in Congress).  I believe some people are aware of their dissonance and relish it.  

It&#039;s a perversion of motivated reasoning.  It&#039;s agenda-based motivated reasoning as opposed to subconscious motivation.  For them, the overarching goal is more important than the individual arguments that require fact-based conversations.

Have you ever taken a debate class where you were forced to argue a point with which you viscerally disagree?  A good debater can do it well, regardless of the &quot;facts.&quot;
Jamie Vernon</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@1 &#8220;Kristol was a genius&#8221;&#8230;an evil genius (similar to Rove, Limbaugh and some in Congress).  I believe some people are aware of their dissonance and relish it.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s a perversion of motivated reasoning.  It&#8217;s agenda-based motivated reasoning as opposed to subconscious motivation.  For them, the overarching goal is more important than the individual arguments that require fact-based conversations.</p>
<p>Have you ever taken a debate class where you were forced to argue a point with which you viscerally disagree?  A good debater can do it well, regardless of the &#8220;facts.&#8221;<br />
Jamie Vernon</p>
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		<title>By: TTT</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/06/16/the-movement-conservative-style-men-without-footnotes/#comment-105240</link>
		<dc:creator>TTT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jun 2011 13:31:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=18858#comment-105240</guid>
		<description>You haven&#039;t really read Irving Kristol until you&#039;ve read him talk about how much Negroes scare him because they look Oriental.  Though his same-breath praising of Ivy League legacy admissions while bashing minority admission quotas for undermining meritocracy comes in a very close second.  

With Kristol, Buckley, and most other supposed &quot;thinkers&quot; of that generation of conservatism, I really get the feeling that &quot;you had to be there&quot;--that there was something in the force of personality of the person that simply had to make them sound more convincing.  Because to a person who didn&#039;t become politically aware until after these supposed luminaries had either gotten very old or were actually dead, they just look like blustering con artists.  It might also help that the more time passed, the more their wishes became true--i.e. relentless tax cuts and military adventurism--and are now free for judgment outside the beautiful world of perfect academic theory.  That&#039;s one of many unfortunate features Kristol shared with Marxists.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You haven&#8217;t really read Irving Kristol until you&#8217;ve read him talk about how much Negroes scare him because they look Oriental.  Though his same-breath praising of Ivy League legacy admissions while bashing minority admission quotas for undermining meritocracy comes in a very close second.  </p>
<p>With Kristol, Buckley, and most other supposed &#8220;thinkers&#8221; of that generation of conservatism, I really get the feeling that &#8220;you had to be there&#8221;&#8211;that there was something in the force of personality of the person that simply had to make them sound more convincing.  Because to a person who didn&#8217;t become politically aware until after these supposed luminaries had either gotten very old or were actually dead, they just look like blustering con artists.  It might also help that the more time passed, the more their wishes became true&#8211;i.e. relentless tax cuts and military adventurism&#8211;and are now free for judgment outside the beautiful world of perfect academic theory.  That&#8217;s one of many unfortunate features Kristol shared with Marxists.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Mooney</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/06/16/the-movement-conservative-style-men-without-footnotes/#comment-105229</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Mooney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jun 2011 09:58:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=18858#comment-105229</guid>
		<description>Yes...but maybe not everybody wants an argument with footnotes, which would be why Kristol was so effective. Maybe some people want just enough of an argument to reinforce and be sure of themselves.  In other words, you&#039;ve just convinced me Kristol was a genius.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes&#8230;but maybe not everybody wants an argument with footnotes, which would be why Kristol was so effective. Maybe some people want just enough of an argument to reinforce and be sure of themselves.  In other words, you&#8217;ve just convinced me Kristol was a genius.</p>
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