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	<title>Comments on: Nuke Scaremongering and the Left</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/06/17/nuke-scaremongering-and-the-left/</link>
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		<title>By: Alexis</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/06/17/nuke-scaremongering-and-the-left/#comment-54564</link>
		<dc:creator>Alexis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jun 2011 01:43:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=18850#comment-54564</guid>
		<description>Ah, well, the average Joe CAN get current IM data:

http://wonder.cdc.gov/mmwr/mmwr_reps.asp</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, well, the average Joe CAN get current IM data:</p>
<p><a href="http://wonder.cdc.gov/mmwr/mmwr_reps.asp" rel="nofollow">http://wonder.cdc.gov/mmwr/mmwr_reps.asp</a></p>
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		<title>By: Alexis</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/06/17/nuke-scaremongering-and-the-left/#comment-54563</link>
		<dc:creator>Alexis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jun 2011 23:07:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=18850#comment-54563</guid>
		<description>I wonder if Sherman and/or Mangano even wrote the piece in counterpunch?  I am a maternal and child health epidemiologist in the west, and 1) I have seen no alerts from CDC or anywhere else regarding a spike in infant deaths, and I receive and read every MMWR 2) to the best of my knowledge, infant mortality data as recent as March and May 2011 are not yet available, especially at the city level (and publishing city-level infant mortality data is generally not done), 3) that two people with a respectable publishing record in peer-reviewed journals would write something so sloppy.

I think it is made up, and would really like to see Sherman and Mangano either claim it, or have the opportunity to disassociate their names from it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder if Sherman and/or Mangano even wrote the piece in counterpunch?  I am a maternal and child health epidemiologist in the west, and 1) I have seen no alerts from CDC or anywhere else regarding a spike in infant deaths, and I receive and read every MMWR 2) to the best of my knowledge, infant mortality data as recent as March and May 2011 are not yet available, especially at the city level (and publishing city-level infant mortality data is generally not done), 3) that two people with a respectable publishing record in peer-reviewed journals would write something so sloppy.</p>
<p>I think it is made up, and would really like to see Sherman and Mangano either claim it, or have the opportunity to disassociate their names from it.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin R. Bridges</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/06/17/nuke-scaremongering-and-the-left/#comment-54562</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin R. Bridges</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Jun 2011 19:22:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=18850#comment-54562</guid>
		<description>Chris, I&#039;m looking for a skeptical scientist viewpoint on this al-jazeera article: Fukushima: It&#039;s much worst than you think

http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/features/2011/06/201161664828302638.html

You&#039;ve already addressed the infant mortality rate, but there are a number of other points the article brings up that seem like good points to me. I am not a scientist, though, and don&#039;t want to be caught up by an article that clearly has an element of sensationalism to it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris, I&#8217;m looking for a skeptical scientist viewpoint on this al-jazeera article: Fukushima: It&#8217;s much worst than you think</p>
<p><a href="http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/features/2011/06/201161664828302638.html" rel="nofollow">http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/features/2011/06/201161664828302638.html</a></p>
<p>You&#8217;ve already addressed the infant mortality rate, but there are a number of other points the article brings up that seem like good points to me. I am not a scientist, though, and don&#8217;t want to be caught up by an article that clearly has an element of sensationalism to it.</p>
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		<title>By: Susan Anderson</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/06/17/nuke-scaremongering-and-the-left/#comment-54561</link>
		<dc:creator>Susan Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Jun 2011 16:00:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=18850#comment-54561</guid>
		<description>For once I got more context and understanding from the cumulative effect of the comments added to the article here, with particular thanks to #11 Jason Loxton via Chris Mooney, a sterling example of effective action.  One may hope to get more context and larger data sets over time, but the exact information does not yet show what it is purported to show.  On the whole, before Fukushima I was mildly pro-nuclear with serious reservations about our ability to infinitely store extremely toxic and ever expanding waste products, as a stopgap for our gigantic energy appetite (dare I say gluttony?).

It appears from emerging information that we have no idea of the size or impacts of four to six uncontrollable reactors and storage facilities, but periodically we get updates, and none of them are about how things are safer than we thought, quite the reverse.

In addition, the plant on the Missouri which is now protected by a moat seems vulnerable to my untutored eye.

Reporters providing facts on environmental issues have been forced to be on the defensive about bias, and this is no accident.  The big picture is so consistent, full of fascinating detail on a wide variety of effects, that it appears the defense has chosen to put a magnifying glass to every detail in hopes of finding flaws that can be taken out of context and set to weigh against a massive body of information.

My initial reaction to this was, why contribute to the argument which is already inflated?  I&#039;m well aware of Chris Mooney&#039;s fair-minded tolerance.  (For example, he does a wonderful portrait of William Gray in Storm World; I came away thinking he is such a good writer because he likes people.)  But if you read Keith Kloor, for example, who is supposed to be against bias, he seems to hate Chris Mooney and takes every opportunity to jab at him.  I can to a certain extent understand attacking Joe Romm, but Chris Mooney?  I guess what I&#039;m getting at is that playing to the gallery is a mug&#039;s game.

The person relying on truth and evidence is handicapped in these wars.  Those &quot;all in&quot; for denial are much better equipped, because they never try to put themselves in the other person&#039;s shoes.

BTW, I believe the evidence is nowhere near in on the sum of radiation coming out of northern Japan, but am reasonably certain that the &quot;reasonable&quot; middle is understating the case.  This baby study is wild, but time will tell.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For once I got more context and understanding from the cumulative effect of the comments added to the article here, with particular thanks to #11 Jason Loxton via Chris Mooney, a sterling example of effective action.  One may hope to get more context and larger data sets over time, but the exact information does not yet show what it is purported to show.  On the whole, before Fukushima I was mildly pro-nuclear with serious reservations about our ability to infinitely store extremely toxic and ever expanding waste products, as a stopgap for our gigantic energy appetite (dare I say gluttony?).</p>
<p>It appears from emerging information that we have no idea of the size or impacts of four to six uncontrollable reactors and storage facilities, but periodically we get updates, and none of them are about how things are safer than we thought, quite the reverse.</p>
<p>In addition, the plant on the Missouri which is now protected by a moat seems vulnerable to my untutored eye.</p>
<p>Reporters providing facts on environmental issues have been forced to be on the defensive about bias, and this is no accident.  The big picture is so consistent, full of fascinating detail on a wide variety of effects, that it appears the defense has chosen to put a magnifying glass to every detail in hopes of finding flaws that can be taken out of context and set to weigh against a massive body of information.</p>
<p>My initial reaction to this was, why contribute to the argument which is already inflated?  I&#8217;m well aware of Chris Mooney&#8217;s fair-minded tolerance.  (For example, he does a wonderful portrait of William Gray in Storm World; I came away thinking he is such a good writer because he likes people.)  But if you read Keith Kloor, for example, who is supposed to be against bias, he seems to hate Chris Mooney and takes every opportunity to jab at him.  I can to a certain extent understand attacking Joe Romm, but Chris Mooney?  I guess what I&#8217;m getting at is that playing to the gallery is a mug&#8217;s game.</p>
<p>The person relying on truth and evidence is handicapped in these wars.  Those &#8220;all in&#8221; for denial are much better equipped, because they never try to put themselves in the other person&#8217;s shoes.</p>
<p>BTW, I believe the evidence is nowhere near in on the sum of radiation coming out of northern Japan, but am reasonably certain that the &#8220;reasonable&#8221; middle is understating the case.  This baby study is wild, but time will tell.</p>
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		<title>By: James Hrynyshyn</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/06/17/nuke-scaremongering-and-the-left/#comment-54560</link>
		<dc:creator>James Hrynyshyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Jun 2011 11:54:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=18850#comment-54560</guid>
		<description>http://nuclearpoweryesplease.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&amp;t=258#p625

Answers many of Jason Loxon&#039;s excellent questions, and not to Sherman and Mangano&#039;s credit,</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://nuclearpoweryesplease.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&#038;t=258#p625" rel="nofollow">http://nuclearpoweryesplease.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&#038;t=258#p625</a></p>
<p>Answers many of Jason Loxon&#8217;s excellent questions, and not to Sherman and Mangano&#8217;s credit,</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Johnson</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/06/17/nuke-scaremongering-and-the-left/#comment-54559</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jun 2011 19:10:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=18850#comment-54559</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re clearly misunderstanding Chris here.
1) He has written a number of articles in which he calls out conservative sources for misusing or mis-stating science to further an argument.  He has done it enough to have been accused of bias in the past.
2) To avoid that onus of bias, he has become careful to always mention whenever he sees such a thing from a source known to be liberal.

He is not trying to attack the left - he is just being scrupulous about being fair.   He assumes everyone who reads his blog realizes that for every one example of scientific misuse from the left, there are scarily huge number from the right - he&#039;s already covered that in depth in previous blogs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re clearly misunderstanding Chris here.<br />
1) He has written a number of articles in which he calls out conservative sources for misusing or mis-stating science to further an argument.  He has done it enough to have been accused of bias in the past.<br />
2) To avoid that onus of bias, he has become careful to always mention whenever he sees such a thing from a source known to be liberal.</p>
<p>He is not trying to attack the left &#8211; he is just being scrupulous about being fair.   He assumes everyone who reads his blog realizes that for every one example of scientific misuse from the left, there are scarily huge number from the right &#8211; he&#8217;s already covered that in depth in previous blogs.</p>
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		<title>By: desertlabs</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/06/17/nuke-scaremongering-and-the-left/#comment-54558</link>
		<dc:creator>desertlabs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jun 2011 18:22:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=18850#comment-54558</guid>
		<description>The Point of Inquiry interview with Brenner and Ropiek is from 4/13
http://www.pointofinquiry.org/nuclear_risk_and_reason_david_brenner_and_david_ropeik/


The back-up references were from from 3/16
http://articles.latimes.com/2011/mar/16/local/la-me-0316-california-radiation-20110316

and 3/15.
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2011/0315/Radiation-exposure-Why-US-is-confident-West-Coast-isn-t-in-danger

We are three months into this.  This is a very disingenuous presentation.


This is an article penned by David Brenner:  We don&#039;t know enough about low-dose radiation risk
http://www.nature.com/news/2011/110405/full/news.2011.206.html

“The uncertainties over the long-term consequences of the releases are even more troubling, because they potentially affect much larger populations than those in or near the immediate evacuation zone.”

“One obvious, and largely untapped, source of information is Chernobyl.”

“So we also need to take a complementary approach, studying the basic mechanisms by which low doses of radiation cause cancer [in all organ systems not just thyroid and leukemia] — at the level of genes, chromosomes, cells and organs.”


With regard to evaluating the dangers of Fukushima with regard to the US…

1. Down-playing the dangers due to the lack of hard statistical evidence of the effects of low dose radiation does not preclude a rational person from examining the evidence we do have in terms of the behaviour of radioactive isotopes.  Much is known about how these isotopes are absorbed and concentrated in the body.  It is possible to extrapolate from what is known and make a rational decision.

2.   The solution is to have more data for evaluation.  It’s being gathered, but not shared. That is what we should be demanding.  We shouldn’t have a false sense of security from our inability to see what’s going on.  Here is link that discusses this:
http://www.nature.com/news/2011/110613/full/news.2011.366.html

3.   From what I’ve observed in the media they are actually downplaying the risks, or simply avoiding the subject all together…mostly the latter.

4.  I’m a conservative, and I have always thought nuclear was a bad idea.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Point of Inquiry interview with Brenner and Ropiek is from 4/13<br />
<a href="http://www.pointofinquiry.org/nuclear_risk_and_reason_david_brenner_and_david_ropeik/" rel="nofollow">http://www.pointofinquiry.org/nuclear_risk_and_reason_david_brenner_and_david_ropeik/</a></p>
<p>The back-up references were from from 3/16<br />
<a href="http://articles.latimes.com/2011/mar/16/local/la-me-0316-california-radiation-20110316" rel="nofollow">http://articles.latimes.com/2011/mar/16/local/la-me-0316-california-radiation-20110316</a></p>
<p>and 3/15.<br />
<a href="http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2011/0315/Radiation-exposure-Why-US-is-confident-West-Coast-isn-t-in-danger" rel="nofollow">http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2011/0315/Radiation-exposure-Why-US-is-confident-West-Coast-isn-t-in-danger</a></p>
<p>We are three months into this.  This is a very disingenuous presentation.</p>
<p>This is an article penned by David Brenner:  We don&#8217;t know enough about low-dose radiation risk<br />
<a href="http://www.nature.com/news/2011/110405/full/news.2011.206.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.nature.com/news/2011/110405/full/news.2011.206.html</a></p>
<p>“The uncertainties over the long-term consequences of the releases are even more troubling, because they potentially affect much larger populations than those in or near the immediate evacuation zone.”</p>
<p>“One obvious, and largely untapped, source of information is Chernobyl.”</p>
<p>“So we also need to take a complementary approach, studying the basic mechanisms by which low doses of radiation cause cancer [in all organ systems not just thyroid and leukemia] — at the level of genes, chromosomes, cells and organs.”</p>
<p>With regard to evaluating the dangers of Fukushima with regard to the US…</p>
<p>1. Down-playing the dangers due to the lack of hard statistical evidence of the effects of low dose radiation does not preclude a rational person from examining the evidence we do have in terms of the behaviour of radioactive isotopes.  Much is known about how these isotopes are absorbed and concentrated in the body.  It is possible to extrapolate from what is known and make a rational decision.</p>
<p>2.   The solution is to have more data for evaluation.  It’s being gathered, but not shared. That is what we should be demanding.  We shouldn’t have a false sense of security from our inability to see what’s going on.  Here is link that discusses this:<br />
<a href="http://www.nature.com/news/2011/110613/full/news.2011.366.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.nature.com/news/2011/110613/full/news.2011.366.html</a></p>
<p>3.   From what I’ve observed in the media they are actually downplaying the risks, or simply avoiding the subject all together…mostly the latter.</p>
<p>4.  I’m a conservative, and I have always thought nuclear was a bad idea.</p>
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		<title>By: solitha</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/06/17/nuke-scaremongering-and-the-left/#comment-54557</link>
		<dc:creator>solitha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jun 2011 18:02:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=18850#comment-54557</guid>
		<description>&quot;Keeping us honest&quot; seems pretty clear to me. It&#039;s a matter of reminding us that the Left is not without error; while we watch conservatives flounder in a sea of propaganda, we have to not fall into the fallacy of thinking the Left is always correct. To keep ourselves honest we have to recognize fault no matter where on the political spectrum it lies.

@16, Richard D. Morey - liberals are the ones who tend to be very anti-nuclear. The context lies in past works by Chris, including the Point of Inquiry he linked.

@13, Matt - this blog is named The Intersection. It specifically addresses the intersections where politics and science meet (and sometimes end up in horribly mangled crashes). The bias created is in fact a heavy topic here; you&#039;d probably find it rewarding to go back and read some of Chris&#039; posts from the last few months. The blurb under &quot;Your Blogger&quot; on the right of the page may also shed some light into what you&#039;ve stumbled into here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Keeping us honest&#8221; seems pretty clear to me. It&#8217;s a matter of reminding us that the Left is not without error; while we watch conservatives flounder in a sea of propaganda, we have to not fall into the fallacy of thinking the Left is always correct. To keep ourselves honest we have to recognize fault no matter where on the political spectrum it lies.</p>
<p>@16, Richard D. Morey &#8211; liberals are the ones who tend to be very anti-nuclear. The context lies in past works by Chris, including the Point of Inquiry he linked.</p>
<p>@13, Matt &#8211; this blog is named The Intersection. It specifically addresses the intersections where politics and science meet (and sometimes end up in horribly mangled crashes). The bias created is in fact a heavy topic here; you&#8217;d probably find it rewarding to go back and read some of Chris&#8217; posts from the last few months. The blurb under &#8220;Your Blogger&#8221; on the right of the page may also shed some light into what you&#8217;ve stumbled into here.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/06/17/nuke-scaremongering-and-the-left/#comment-54556</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jun 2011 17:58:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=18850#comment-54556</guid>
		<description>@13 and @16:  You&#039;re both reading things into this that simply aren&#039;t present.  If you refuse to be confined to the statements that are present, and are married to your interpretations, then I can&#039;t help you any more than Chris can.  The post is clear, if you choose for it to be.  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@13 and @16:  You&#8217;re both reading things into this that simply aren&#8217;t present.  If you refuse to be confined to the statements that are present, and are married to your interpretations, then I can&#8217;t help you any more than Chris can.  The post is clear, if you choose for it to be.  <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Philip H.</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/06/17/nuke-scaremongering-and-the-left/#comment-54555</link>
		<dc:creator>Philip H.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jun 2011 17:55:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=18850#comment-54555</guid>
		<description>Chris,
Come on, dude.  You&#039;ve been writing for a LONG TIME about how the Right is succeeding because the &quot;media&quot; is giving its not-really-factually-based narrative equal billing.  Other then growing a thinner skin to your Right-leaning critics, why write this at all?  Are you trying to create false balance too now?  Really?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris,<br />
Come on, dude.  You&#8217;ve been writing for a LONG TIME about how the Right is succeeding because the &#8220;media&#8221; is giving its not-really-factually-based narrative equal billing.  Other then growing a thinner skin to your Right-leaning critics, why write this at all?  Are you trying to create false balance too now?  Really?</p>
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