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	<title>Comments on: New Point of Inquiry: Rick Perlstein&#8211;Is There a Republican War on History?</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/06/20/new-point-of-inquiry-rick-perlstein-is-there-a-republican-war-on-history/</link>
	<description>Where science collides with life, slams into culture, crashes with politics, and gets totaled.</description>
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		<title>By: David Johnson</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/06/20/new-point-of-inquiry-rick-perlstein-is-there-a-republican-war-on-history/#comment-105611</link>
		<dc:creator>David Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jun 2011 18:36:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=18997#comment-105611</guid>
		<description>The ignorance of history in this country is not limited to the right. It is a general ignorance. People from both sides get minor details wrong, and people from both sides reshape their perception of history to meet their worldview.

Saying &quot;the answer to the first is a qualified yes&quot; is just playing to your confirmation bias.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The ignorance of history in this country is not limited to the right. It is a general ignorance. People from both sides get minor details wrong, and people from both sides reshape their perception of history to meet their worldview.</p>
<p>Saying &#8220;the answer to the first is a qualified yes&#8221; is just playing to your confirmation bias.</p>
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		<title>By: Avattoir</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/06/20/new-point-of-inquiry-rick-perlstein-is-there-a-republican-war-on-history/#comment-105546</link>
		<dc:creator>Avattoir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jun 2011 02:56:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=18997#comment-105546</guid>
		<description>I think Michael Brady touches on an interesting point: that what Rick Perlstein means by the word &quot;liberal&quot; is different than what others mean in using it. 

Perlstein&#039;s use is consistent with one I once heard Diane Rehm using in describing her own evidence-and-reality based liberalism. It seems to me that the use of it by many who call themselves &quot;conservative&quot; is to provide a dyametrically-opposing contrast to their own views, which are not actually conservative at all in the classical sense of the English political tradition, nor even consistent with the Republican conservative tradition up until the absorption of a huge percentage of what used to be called Dixiecrats into the Republican party over the period from when the Barry Goldwater campaign offered them a home with his John Birchers and other reactionary radicals and when Ronald Reagan symbolically reached out to them in his own initial campaign in 1980 - those events framing and containing the passage of and reactions to that of the Civil Rights Act of 1965. 

So, the question arises as to the nature of the &quot;differently (use) by different people&quot; of the term &quot;liberal&quot;, to which I would say this: for the most part, those who call THEMSELVES liberals mean it, more or less, in that classic enlightenment sense of Perlstein, and Rehm, and academic historians (well, academic just about everything, not just historians), whereas the use of it coming from the mouths and pens of current self-styled conservatives is to identify a group associated with politics and policies and programs which the bundle of not-actually-classical-conservative-but-instead-reactionary interests making up much of the current support for the Republican party derogate (in the sense of standing for government enforcement of equal civil rights regardless of gender and skin color, government programs aimed at assuring minimum health standards and educational opportunities regardless of ability of people or their parents to pay, etc.).

I think Perlstein WAS saying that it&#039;s that so-called &quot;history&quot; of that faction of self-styled &quot;conservatives&quot; who are in fact radical reactionaries that is wrong-headed, and that by implication, even though he did not state it precisely, he was allowing for the distinction Michael Brady raises. It&#039;s many of those classicial conservatives who formerly voted Republican because that party listened to and reflected their views who now, I think, constitute an important  support group for Candidate Obama in 2008 and presumably Candidae President Obama in 2012, one towards which he seems a lot more sympathetic than to the group he and his political aides characterize as the &quot;professional left&quot; - and one that may in fact be both larger in numbers than that last group, and certainly closer to the mushy middle of moderates and centrists that are open to voting either Republican or Democratic depending on pillar issues like the economy and how they feel about the wars du jour.

Thus, while I do think the phenomenons Michael Brady noted were present, I do not think they have the least effect on the accuracy and value of the observations of Rick Perlstein.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Michael Brady touches on an interesting point: that what Rick Perlstein means by the word &#8220;liberal&#8221; is different than what others mean in using it. </p>
<p>Perlstein&#8217;s use is consistent with one I once heard Diane Rehm using in describing her own evidence-and-reality based liberalism. It seems to me that the use of it by many who call themselves &#8220;conservative&#8221; is to provide a dyametrically-opposing contrast to their own views, which are not actually conservative at all in the classical sense of the English political tradition, nor even consistent with the Republican conservative tradition up until the absorption of a huge percentage of what used to be called Dixiecrats into the Republican party over the period from when the Barry Goldwater campaign offered them a home with his John Birchers and other reactionary radicals and when Ronald Reagan symbolically reached out to them in his own initial campaign in 1980 &#8211; those events framing and containing the passage of and reactions to that of the Civil Rights Act of 1965. </p>
<p>So, the question arises as to the nature of the &#8220;differently (use) by different people&#8221; of the term &#8220;liberal&#8221;, to which I would say this: for the most part, those who call THEMSELVES liberals mean it, more or less, in that classic enlightenment sense of Perlstein, and Rehm, and academic historians (well, academic just about everything, not just historians), whereas the use of it coming from the mouths and pens of current self-styled conservatives is to identify a group associated with politics and policies and programs which the bundle of not-actually-classical-conservative-but-instead-reactionary interests making up much of the current support for the Republican party derogate (in the sense of standing for government enforcement of equal civil rights regardless of gender and skin color, government programs aimed at assuring minimum health standards and educational opportunities regardless of ability of people or their parents to pay, etc.).</p>
<p>I think Perlstein WAS saying that it&#8217;s that so-called &#8220;history&#8221; of that faction of self-styled &#8220;conservatives&#8221; who are in fact radical reactionaries that is wrong-headed, and that by implication, even though he did not state it precisely, he was allowing for the distinction Michael Brady raises. It&#8217;s many of those classicial conservatives who formerly voted Republican because that party listened to and reflected their views who now, I think, constitute an important  support group for Candidate Obama in 2008 and presumably Candidae President Obama in 2012, one towards which he seems a lot more sympathetic than to the group he and his political aides characterize as the &#8220;professional left&#8221; &#8211; and one that may in fact be both larger in numbers than that last group, and certainly closer to the mushy middle of moderates and centrists that are open to voting either Republican or Democratic depending on pillar issues like the economy and how they feel about the wars du jour.</p>
<p>Thus, while I do think the phenomenons Michael Brady noted were present, I do not think they have the least effect on the accuracy and value of the observations of Rick Perlstein.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Brady</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/06/20/new-point-of-inquiry-rick-perlstein-is-there-a-republican-war-on-history/#comment-105512</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Brady</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jun 2011 17:49:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=18997#comment-105512</guid>
		<description>It felt like there was some conflation of different meanings of term &quot;Liberal&quot; in the discussion.  Unfortunately, Liberal doesn&#039;t mean the same thing in current American political discourse that it did in the Medieval Academy or during the Enlightenment.  It sounded a little like Perlstein was saying conservative history is wrong-headed and incorrect, but that liberal history is what you get from academia, and which also happens to be correct.  He seemed to do this without acknowledging that the term is used differently by different people these days (or so it seemed listening to the interview at 2x).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It felt like there was some conflation of different meanings of term &#8220;Liberal&#8221; in the discussion.  Unfortunately, Liberal doesn&#8217;t mean the same thing in current American political discourse that it did in the Medieval Academy or during the Enlightenment.  It sounded a little like Perlstein was saying conservative history is wrong-headed and incorrect, but that liberal history is what you get from academia, and which also happens to be correct.  He seemed to do this without acknowledging that the term is used differently by different people these days (or so it seemed listening to the interview at 2x).</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/06/20/new-point-of-inquiry-rick-perlstein-is-there-a-republican-war-on-history/#comment-105507</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jun 2011 15:26:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=18997#comment-105507</guid>
		<description>Nothing but liberal meme here. The 3/5 clause was put in place to limit Southern power in Congress. The Southern slave owners treated slaves as property, yet they would count them as free people when it came to elections. The North was against the notion and hence the compromise was formed to appease both sides - the very definition of compromise, neither side got what they wanted. The Northern Republicans and some Democrats wanted to do away with slavery, the Southern Democrats did not (very few Republicans from the South in those days). It was also the Republicans that passed the Civil Rights Act of 1875 and signed by Republican President U.S. Grant, which was later declared unconstitutional by the Supreme Court. Many of the provisions of this bill were passed in the Civil Rights Act of 1964 - which also had more Republican support overall than Democrats, with the majority of the Northerners in support and majority of the Southerners voting no.   

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-fifths_compromise

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1875

So yes, our Republican founders did fight against slavery and one could argue Revere did warn the British that our militia was waiting for them, it was documented when the Red Coats stopped him on his ride out of Boston. However, I&#039;m not sure she meant to say it that way, but all politicians gaffe regularly, so this point is moot (unless you exploit every gaffe to further an agenda...).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nothing but liberal meme here. The 3/5 clause was put in place to limit Southern power in Congress. The Southern slave owners treated slaves as property, yet they would count them as free people when it came to elections. The North was against the notion and hence the compromise was formed to appease both sides &#8211; the very definition of compromise, neither side got what they wanted. The Northern Republicans and some Democrats wanted to do away with slavery, the Southern Democrats did not (very few Republicans from the South in those days). It was also the Republicans that passed the Civil Rights Act of 1875 and signed by Republican President U.S. Grant, which was later declared unconstitutional by the Supreme Court. Many of the provisions of this bill were passed in the Civil Rights Act of 1964 &#8211; which also had more Republican support overall than Democrats, with the majority of the Northerners in support and majority of the Southerners voting no.   </p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-fifths_compromise" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-fifths_compromise</a></p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1875" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1875</a></p>
<p>So yes, our Republican founders did fight against slavery and one could argue Revere did warn the British that our militia was waiting for them, it was documented when the Red Coats stopped him on his ride out of Boston. However, I&#8217;m not sure she meant to say it that way, but all politicians gaffe regularly, so this point is moot (unless you exploit every gaffe to further an agenda&#8230;).</p>
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		<title>By: vel</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/06/20/new-point-of-inquiry-rick-perlstein-is-there-a-republican-war-on-history/#comment-105501</link>
		<dc:creator>vel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jun 2011 14:07:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=18997#comment-105501</guid>
		<description>I do see a trend by &quot;neo-cons&quot; to try to re-write history to support their delusions. This seems intentional, with each supposed &quot;mistake&quot; not so strangely supporting the positions of these people.  They wish to make over the history of the US so they appear to be the &quot;patriots&quot; in any discussion and it certainly seems that if they have to lie to do it, they have no problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do see a trend by &#8220;neo-cons&#8221; to try to re-write history to support their delusions. This seems intentional, with each supposed &#8220;mistake&#8221; not so strangely supporting the positions of these people.  They wish to make over the history of the US so they appear to be the &#8220;patriots&#8221; in any discussion and it certainly seems that if they have to lie to do it, they have no problem.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Mooney</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/06/20/new-point-of-inquiry-rick-perlstein-is-there-a-republican-war-on-history/#comment-105495</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Mooney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jun 2011 13:08:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=18997#comment-105495</guid>
		<description>we touch on both of the issues raised here on the show. 1) does it happen on the left? and 2) is it just stupid mistakes or is it part of a whole historical counter-narrative or even mythos. the answer to the second is yes. the answer to the first is a qualified yes. but please check out the show.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>we touch on both of the issues raised here on the show. 1) does it happen on the left? and 2) is it just stupid mistakes or is it part of a whole historical counter-narrative or even mythos. the answer to the second is yes. the answer to the first is a qualified yes. but please check out the show.</p>
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		<title>By: JMW</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/06/20/new-point-of-inquiry-rick-perlstein-is-there-a-republican-war-on-history/#comment-105466</link>
		<dc:creator>JMW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jun 2011 02:26:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=18997#comment-105466</guid>
		<description>I think you&#039;re reading a little too much into this when politicans make stupid mistakes.  Here in Canada we had a Prime Minister of the Liberal Party who once commented on the D-Day invasion of Norway.  The Prime Minister before that, Jean Chretien, also a Liberal, was what I like to call the George W. Bush of Canada.

Fact of the matter is that these people must, of necessity, focus on their primary job: getting elected.  It leaves little room for anything else.  It&#039;s the problem with modern politics (or one of them, anyway) - getting elected is the goal.  Governing (or opposing) is just a tool to that end, rather than getting elected being a tool toward governing.

The other major crime of modern politics is that politicians and their spinmeisters and analysts have convinced us that everything is political.  Fact is, politicians of all stripes make stupid mistakes about history, precisely because history is one thing they don&#039;t want to acknowledge even exists.  If they did, they&#039;d have to confront the question of why they think their policies, which were tried 10 or 25 or 50 or 100 years ago and didn&#039;t work then, will work now.

When facts - whether scientific or historical - have become at best tools to be manipulated to increase a politician&#039;s chance of election, and at worst something to be avoided and denied, then your culture is dying.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you&#8217;re reading a little too much into this when politicans make stupid mistakes.  Here in Canada we had a Prime Minister of the Liberal Party who once commented on the D-Day invasion of Norway.  The Prime Minister before that, Jean Chretien, also a Liberal, was what I like to call the George W. Bush of Canada.</p>
<p>Fact of the matter is that these people must, of necessity, focus on their primary job: getting elected.  It leaves little room for anything else.  It&#8217;s the problem with modern politics (or one of them, anyway) &#8211; getting elected is the goal.  Governing (or opposing) is just a tool to that end, rather than getting elected being a tool toward governing.</p>
<p>The other major crime of modern politics is that politicians and their spinmeisters and analysts have convinced us that everything is political.  Fact is, politicians of all stripes make stupid mistakes about history, precisely because history is one thing they don&#8217;t want to acknowledge even exists.  If they did, they&#8217;d have to confront the question of why they think their policies, which were tried 10 or 25 or 50 or 100 years ago and didn&#8217;t work then, will work now.</p>
<p>When facts &#8211; whether scientific or historical &#8211; have become at best tools to be manipulated to increase a politician&#8217;s chance of election, and at worst something to be avoided and denied, then your culture is dying.</p>
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		<title>By: Mary</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/06/20/new-point-of-inquiry-rick-perlstein-is-there-a-republican-war-on-history/#comment-105464</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jun 2011 02:07:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=18997#comment-105464</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve been seeing a left-wing distortion of history of late. The amazing work done by Norman Borlaug--saving millions of lives from famine, and for which he won a Nobel Prize--is being trashed by the foodie left. It&#039;s appalling to watch.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been seeing a left-wing distortion of history of late. The amazing work done by Norman Borlaug&#8211;saving millions of lives from famine, and for which he won a Nobel Prize&#8211;is being trashed by the foodie left. It&#8217;s appalling to watch.</p>
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