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	<title>Comments on: Al Gore and the Enlightenment Ethic</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/06/23/al-gore-and-the-enlightenment-ethic/</link>
	<description>Where science collides with life, slams into culture, crashes with politics, and gets totaled.</description>
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		<title>By: Gore and the Media &#124; The Intersection &#124; Discover Magazine</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/06/23/al-gore-and-the-enlightenment-ethic/#comment-106044</link>
		<dc:creator>Gore and the Media &#124; The Intersection &#124; Discover Magazine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jun 2011 05:00:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=19032#comment-106044</guid>
		<description>[...] wrote last week that Gore was &#8220;operating, big time, in liberal enlightenment mode.&#8221; This is true, no [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] wrote last week that Gore was &#8220;operating, big time, in liberal enlightenment mode.&#8221; This is true, no [...]</p>
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		<title>By: TTT</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/06/23/al-gore-and-the-enlightenment-ethic/#comment-105716</link>
		<dc:creator>TTT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jun 2011 13:18:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=19032#comment-105716</guid>
		<description>Conservatives are right about at least one thing:  you cannot change human nature.  

It is perplexing to see Al Gore attempt to claim that Americans as a whole made better, more fact-based decisions in some glimmering Past, before too much of that nasty money got involved to confuse them, and THAT is why we have all this eco-denialism now.  General knowledge of science and environmental issues, as well as the social commitment to environmental protection, has never been any better than it is today.  And people have always loved money, and always been willing to put off tough choices for the sake of short-term convenience.    

It makes political sense to try to co-opt the rhetoric of American exceptionalism to try to win over undecideds for environmental protection; unfortunately, it simply isn&#039;t true.  And Gore&#039;s delivery is particularly forced and ham-fisted.  He might as well be saying we could stop global warming if we supported the troops more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Conservatives are right about at least one thing:  you cannot change human nature.  </p>
<p>It is perplexing to see Al Gore attempt to claim that Americans as a whole made better, more fact-based decisions in some glimmering Past, before too much of that nasty money got involved to confuse them, and THAT is why we have all this eco-denialism now.  General knowledge of science and environmental issues, as well as the social commitment to environmental protection, has never been any better than it is today.  And people have always loved money, and always been willing to put off tough choices for the sake of short-term convenience.    </p>
<p>It makes political sense to try to co-opt the rhetoric of American exceptionalism to try to win over undecideds for environmental protection; unfortunately, it simply isn&#8217;t true.  And Gore&#8217;s delivery is particularly forced and ham-fisted.  He might as well be saying we could stop global warming if we supported the troops more.</p>
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		<title>By: Liberalism and Enlightenment History &#124; The Intersection &#124; Discover Magazine</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/06/23/al-gore-and-the-enlightenment-ethic/#comment-105715</link>
		<dc:creator>Liberalism and Enlightenment History &#124; The Intersection &#124; Discover Magazine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jun 2011 11:41:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=19032#comment-105715</guid>
		<description>[...] I had no idea he was going to offer a thesis so in line with the one that I&#8217;ve been pushing myself lately&#8211;that when it comes to history, liberals are wedded to an Enlightenment tradition that creates [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I had no idea he was going to offer a thesis so in line with the one that I&#8217;ve been pushing myself lately&#8211;that when it comes to history, liberals are wedded to an Enlightenment tradition that creates [...]</p>
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		<title>By: JMW</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/06/23/al-gore-and-the-enlightenment-ethic/#comment-105705</link>
		<dc:creator>JMW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jun 2011 02:21:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=19032#comment-105705</guid>
		<description>@10 Chris, I&#039;m going to plug (once more) John Ralston Saul&#039;s &quot;Voltaire&#039;s Bastards&quot;.  His point is that the modern elite has embraced Voltaire&#039;s rationality, but forgotten and expunged Voltaire&#039;s equal emphasis on ethics.

The result is an elite that is trained up in making rational decisions, completely unfettered by any hint of the ethical.  This is how you get West Virginia (read Roger Ebert&#039;s review of &quot;The Last Mountain&quot;), this is how you get Bhopal, India...

...and on a geekier note, this is how you get the episode of Enterprise called &quot;The Andorrian Incident&quot;, when the Enterprise comes across a Vulcan religious retreat on a planet called B&#039;Jem.  Andorrians, who recently fought a war with the Vulcans, are convinced the religious retreat is just a cover for an espionage post, something unambiguously forbidden by their peace treaty.  In the end, it turns out the  Vulcans have placed a surveillance post in the retreat - just the sort of thing completely non-emotional, logical people would do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@10 Chris, I&#8217;m going to plug (once more) John Ralston Saul&#8217;s &#8220;Voltaire&#8217;s Bastards&#8221;.  His point is that the modern elite has embraced Voltaire&#8217;s rationality, but forgotten and expunged Voltaire&#8217;s equal emphasis on ethics.</p>
<p>The result is an elite that is trained up in making rational decisions, completely unfettered by any hint of the ethical.  This is how you get West Virginia (read Roger Ebert&#8217;s review of &#8220;The Last Mountain&#8221;), this is how you get Bhopal, India&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8230;and on a geekier note, this is how you get the episode of Enterprise called &#8220;The Andorrian Incident&#8221;, when the Enterprise comes across a Vulcan religious retreat on a planet called B&#8217;Jem.  Andorrians, who recently fought a war with the Vulcans, are convinced the religious retreat is just a cover for an espionage post, something unambiguously forbidden by their peace treaty.  In the end, it turns out the  Vulcans have placed a surveillance post in the retreat &#8211; just the sort of thing completely non-emotional, logical people would do.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Mooney</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/06/23/al-gore-and-the-enlightenment-ethic/#comment-105700</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Mooney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jun 2011 00:27:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=19032#comment-105700</guid>
		<description>@3 is right. I don&#039;t believe there are really many Machiavellis. I do believe that people always convince themselves that they&#039;re right and they&#039;re doing good things, and so if you are the head of a corporation that is causing environmental harm, you rationalize (but we create all these jobs, we provide needed services to hundreds of thousands/millions of people)...etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@3 is right. I don&#8217;t believe there are really many Machiavellis. I do believe that people always convince themselves that they&#8217;re right and they&#8217;re doing good things, and so if you are the head of a corporation that is causing environmental harm, you rationalize (but we create all these jobs, we provide needed services to hundreds of thousands/millions of people)&#8230;etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Al Delaney</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/06/23/al-gore-and-the-enlightenment-ethic/#comment-105698</link>
		<dc:creator>Al Delaney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jun 2011 00:15:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=19032#comment-105698</guid>
		<description>I understand what you’re saying about Gore not taking into account how different people are motivated to believe one way or another but I think there’s another twist on this that’s very important.  You’ve pointed out the structure that conservatives relish and their almost blind faith in authority or god-like figures; being led by emotion rather then reason.  Don’t you think there are some in the Republican Party leadership who have molded their public views to take advantage of those whose thinking is influenced in such a way?  Don’t they have a responsibility to use their position of authority in the conservative movement to push a fact-backed agenda in a manner that would persuade their base?  It’s not an insignificant number of Republicans who have at one time expressed acceptance of climate change only to back down rather than frame the issue in a manor that could marshal other Republicans to the cause.  These people can’t be dismissed as simply different types of thinkers.  Their morally bankrupt behavior is simply shameful.  That said, liberals, progressives, centrists need to learn to frame their arguments in a way that appeals to basic conservative thinking.  It’s been done in the past.  Long before Cap-and-Trade was vilified on the Right, it was not just embraced, it was pushed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I understand what you’re saying about Gore not taking into account how different people are motivated to believe one way or another but I think there’s another twist on this that’s very important.  You’ve pointed out the structure that conservatives relish and their almost blind faith in authority or god-like figures; being led by emotion rather then reason.  Don’t you think there are some in the Republican Party leadership who have molded their public views to take advantage of those whose thinking is influenced in such a way?  Don’t they have a responsibility to use their position of authority in the conservative movement to push a fact-backed agenda in a manner that would persuade their base?  It’s not an insignificant number of Republicans who have at one time expressed acceptance of climate change only to back down rather than frame the issue in a manor that could marshal other Republicans to the cause.  These people can’t be dismissed as simply different types of thinkers.  Their morally bankrupt behavior is simply shameful.  That said, liberals, progressives, centrists need to learn to frame their arguments in a way that appeals to basic conservative thinking.  It’s been done in the past.  Long before Cap-and-Trade was vilified on the Right, it was not just embraced, it was pushed.</p>
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		<title>By: Susan Anderson</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/06/23/al-gore-and-the-enlightenment-ethic/#comment-105693</link>
		<dc:creator>Susan Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jun 2011 22:56:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=19032#comment-105693</guid>
		<description>Consider the Roman circus that is our current default entertainment (and don&#039;t forget advertisements).  I don&#039;t think anyone would give up their cell phone (why should they, they will say - they want a newer better one with more features).  &quot;Free&quot; media - can anyone really say they and their families are uninfluenced by what finances it?  We&#039;ve come to regard it as a right,  Just watching evening news - gaming the most profitable industry out there.

So, what government regulation? 

While the welcoming human environment that has been earth for the last 10 millenia (more or less, with additions) is changing we can avoid discomfort because we have so many ways to escape it.

How can we slow down infotainment and the desire for ever-accelerating product improvements?  How about families and the instinct for procreation?  Have you been nowhere near a sports contest or celebration?  American Idol, Dancing with the Stars, and their spinoffs?  Morning news entertainment features?   (And don&#039;t forget the most expensive circus of all - our elections.)

A recent ride on the subways showed me the only place where everybody reads?  Go figure.
--
Gore has become a target and it no longer matters that he brought the whole world to a sense of the reality with one great slide show.  The &quot;kill the messenger&quot; now subscribed to by vast numbers will never allow him to be considered as a good man doing his best, with a life history like the rest of us.  They couldn&#039;t see, for whatever reason, that he has learned a lot and told the truth to the best of his ability, which is considerable.

No doubt insulted nature will continue to wield its bludgeon more fiercely until enough important people get the message and begin slowing down.  To reverse one must first slow down, then break even, then back up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Consider the Roman circus that is our current default entertainment (and don&#8217;t forget advertisements).  I don&#8217;t think anyone would give up their cell phone (why should they, they will say &#8211; they want a newer better one with more features).  &#8220;Free&#8221; media &#8211; can anyone really say they and their families are uninfluenced by what finances it?  We&#8217;ve come to regard it as a right,  Just watching evening news &#8211; gaming the most profitable industry out there.</p>
<p>So, what government regulation? </p>
<p>While the welcoming human environment that has been earth for the last 10 millenia (more or less, with additions) is changing we can avoid discomfort because we have so many ways to escape it.</p>
<p>How can we slow down infotainment and the desire for ever-accelerating product improvements?  How about families and the instinct for procreation?  Have you been nowhere near a sports contest or celebration?  American Idol, Dancing with the Stars, and their spinoffs?  Morning news entertainment features?   (And don&#8217;t forget the most expensive circus of all &#8211; our elections.)</p>
<p>A recent ride on the subways showed me the only place where everybody reads?  Go figure.<br />
&#8211;<br />
Gore has become a target and it no longer matters that he brought the whole world to a sense of the reality with one great slide show.  The &#8220;kill the messenger&#8221; now subscribed to by vast numbers will never allow him to be considered as a good man doing his best, with a life history like the rest of us.  They couldn&#8217;t see, for whatever reason, that he has learned a lot and told the truth to the best of his ability, which is considerable.</p>
<p>No doubt insulted nature will continue to wield its bludgeon more fiercely until enough important people get the message and begin slowing down.  To reverse one must first slow down, then break even, then back up.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Brady</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/06/23/al-gore-and-the-enlightenment-ethic/#comment-105683</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Brady</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jun 2011 21:00:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=19032#comment-105683</guid>
		<description>Mark,

&quot;If conservatives can be taught to believe that government regulation can end terrorism, they can be taught that government regulation can end climate change.&quot;

The use of force against the other is not a stretch for the conservative mind.  Finding a way to pay the two trillion dollars the GWOT has cost so far is a sticking point for some though.

Conservatives have a much larger problem with AGW than acquiescing to regulation.  Global warming (pollution) represents a failure of the free market.  Probably easier to give up a leg than to believe that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark,</p>
<p>&#8220;If conservatives can be taught to believe that government regulation can end terrorism, they can be taught that government regulation can end climate change.&#8221;</p>
<p>The use of force against the other is not a stretch for the conservative mind.  Finding a way to pay the two trillion dollars the GWOT has cost so far is a sticking point for some though.</p>
<p>Conservatives have a much larger problem with AGW than acquiescing to regulation.  Global warming (pollution) represents a failure of the free market.  Probably easier to give up a leg than to believe that.</p>
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		<title>By: Hugo Schmidt</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/06/23/al-gore-and-the-enlightenment-ethic/#comment-105678</link>
		<dc:creator>Hugo Schmidt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jun 2011 20:20:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=19032#comment-105678</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Nevertheless, I’m afraid to say that Gore is operating, big time, in liberal Enlightenment mode–&lt;/blockquote&gt;

  Oh really?

  I&#039;ll drone on about this if I have to, but Al Gore, while making noises about science and reason had the following to say in &quot;Earth in the Balance&quot;: 

&lt;blockquote&gt;
&quot;Bacon&#039;s moral confusion — the confusion at the heart of much modern science—came from his assump­tion, echoing Plato, that human intellect could safely analyze and understand the natural world without reference to any moral principles defining our relationship and duties to both God and God&#039;s creation.&quot;&quot;

&lt;/blockquote&gt;

  Similarly at one of the endless UN meetings on this he started going on about &quot;the truths contained in primitive cultures&quot;.  This is not the language of the Enlightenment.  It is the language of superstitious reaction.  

  You&#039;re very good when you note that it&#039;s not some mysterious group of &quot;polluters&quot;.  Correct.  Pollution is part of the price we pay for civilization.  The key distinction between those who are serious and those who are not is as follows:  Do they say that global warming is a problem that needs fixing or that its a sin for which we need atone?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Nevertheless, I’m afraid to say that Gore is operating, big time, in liberal Enlightenment mode–</p></blockquote>
<p>  Oh really?</p>
<p>  I&#8217;ll drone on about this if I have to, but Al Gore, while making noises about science and reason had the following to say in &#8220;Earth in the Balance&#8221;: </p>
<blockquote><p>
&#8220;Bacon&#8217;s moral confusion — the confusion at the heart of much modern science—came from his assump­tion, echoing Plato, that human intellect could safely analyze and understand the natural world without reference to any moral principles defining our relationship and duties to both God and God&#8217;s creation.&#8221;"</p>
</blockquote>
<p>  Similarly at one of the endless UN meetings on this he started going on about &#8220;the truths contained in primitive cultures&#8221;.  This is not the language of the Enlightenment.  It is the language of superstitious reaction.  </p>
<p>  You&#8217;re very good when you note that it&#8217;s not some mysterious group of &#8220;polluters&#8221;.  Correct.  Pollution is part of the price we pay for civilization.  The key distinction between those who are serious and those who are not is as follows:  Do they say that global warming is a problem that needs fixing or that its a sin for which we need atone?</p>
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		<title>By: Mike H</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/06/23/al-gore-and-the-enlightenment-ethic/#comment-105674</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jun 2011 19:25:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=19032#comment-105674</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Gore is operating, big time, in liberal Enlightenment mode&lt;/i&gt;

Remind me, is that the “mode” where you call on people to have fewer children, even though you have four of your own? Is it the “mode” where you rail against other people’s rampant consumerism while buying a 100’ luxury houseboat? Is it the “mode” where you fire off angry articles berating the general population for not living sustainable from the comfort of you 20 room, 8 bathroom, 10,000 square foot home in Nashville, 4,000 squarefoot home in Arlington or your 3500 square foot home in Carthage (I know, he paid his indulgences on one of these with LEED certification)? Does the “mode” include berating others of driving gas hogging SUV’s while owning an SUV yourself? 

If this is sustainable living, then cound me in baby! 

Now let us all eat some cake!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Gore is operating, big time, in liberal Enlightenment mode</i></p>
<p>Remind me, is that the “mode” where you call on people to have fewer children, even though you have four of your own? Is it the “mode” where you rail against other people’s rampant consumerism while buying a 100’ luxury houseboat? Is it the “mode” where you fire off angry articles berating the general population for not living sustainable from the comfort of you 20 room, 8 bathroom, 10,000 square foot home in Nashville, 4,000 squarefoot home in Arlington or your 3500 square foot home in Carthage (I know, he paid his indulgences on one of these with LEED certification)? Does the “mode” include berating others of driving gas hogging SUV’s while owning an SUV yourself? </p>
<p>If this is sustainable living, then cound me in baby! </p>
<p>Now let us all eat some cake!</p>
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