<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: The Department Of Energy Could Use A Little Emotion In Its Energy Conservation Campaign</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/07/19/the-department-of-energy-could-use-a-little-emotion-in-its-energy-conservation-campaign/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/07/19/the-department-of-energy-could-use-a-little-emotion-in-its-energy-conservation-campaign/</link>
	<description>Where science collides with life, slams into culture, crashes with politics, and gets totaled.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 27 Sep 2011 17:28:30 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: peterdublin</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/07/19/the-department-of-energy-could-use-a-little-emotion-in-its-energy-conservation-campaign/#comment-108481</link>
		<dc:creator>peterdublin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jul 2011 16:48:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=19658#comment-108481</guid>
		<description>(continued)

But OK:
 Congress has Budget Worries

One might therefore  also consider that a TAX  not a BAN on popular but energy using Cars, Buildings, TV sets, Refrigerators, Light Bulbs etc
could also help finance cheaper energy saving alternatives 
so people are not just &quot;hit by taxes&quot;
GOP keep Choice, Democrats get Funding, tax easily adjusted or removed
according to new market conditions and entrants - a politically fair  proposal.
http://ceolas.net/index-x.html#nea8x

That said, stimulated market competition is still better  to achieve energy efficiency, 
for reasons explained in the link.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(continued)</p>
<p>But OK:<br />
 Congress has Budget Worries</p>
<p>One might therefore  also consider that a TAX  not a BAN on popular but energy using Cars, Buildings, TV sets, Refrigerators, Light Bulbs etc<br />
could also help finance cheaper energy saving alternatives<br />
so people are not just &#8220;hit by taxes&#8221;<br />
GOP keep Choice, Democrats get Funding, tax easily adjusted or removed<br />
according to new market conditions and entrants &#8211; a politically fair  proposal.<br />
<a href="http://ceolas.net/index-x.html#nea8x" rel="nofollow">http://ceolas.net/index-x.html#nea8x</a></p>
<p>That said, stimulated market competition is still better  to achieve energy efficiency,<br />
for reasons explained in the link.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: peterdublin</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/07/19/the-department-of-energy-could-use-a-little-emotion-in-its-energy-conservation-campaign/#comment-108479</link>
		<dc:creator>peterdublin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jul 2011 16:43:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=19658#comment-108479</guid>
		<description>Secondly, with regard to supposed Savings:

1. Only c. 2% grid electricity saved, DOE etc data =
http://ceolas.net/#li171x with  more relevant and significant alternatives.

2.   Consumers as a whole hardly save MONEY - regardless of energy savings
 Initial bulb cost + Utilities compensated for reduced sales.
So,  not just in having to pay more for the light bulbs as an initial cost
(or being forced to pay for them, via taxpayer CFL programs)
- but also because electricity companies are being taxpayer subsidised
or allowed to raise Bill rates to compensate for any reduced
electricity use, as already seen both federally and in California, Ohio etc,
and before them in the UK and other European countries
( as referenced http://ceolas.net/#californiacfl )</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Secondly, with regard to supposed Savings:</p>
<p>1. Only c. 2% grid electricity saved, DOE etc data =<br />
<a href="http://ceolas.net/#li171x" rel="nofollow">http://ceolas.net/#li171x</a> with  more relevant and significant alternatives.</p>
<p>2.   Consumers as a whole hardly save MONEY &#8211; regardless of energy savings<br />
 Initial bulb cost + Utilities compensated for reduced sales.<br />
So,  not just in having to pay more for the light bulbs as an initial cost<br />
(or being forced to pay for them, via taxpayer CFL programs)<br />
- but also because electricity companies are being taxpayer subsidised<br />
or allowed to raise Bill rates to compensate for any reduced<br />
electricity use, as already seen both federally and in California, Ohio etc,<br />
and before them in the UK and other European countries<br />
( as referenced <a href="http://ceolas.net/#californiacfl" rel="nofollow">http://ceolas.net/#californiacfl</a> )</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: peterdublin</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/07/19/the-department-of-energy-could-use-a-little-emotion-in-its-energy-conservation-campaign/#comment-108478</link>
		<dc:creator>peterdublin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jul 2011 16:43:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=19658#comment-108478</guid>
		<description>Yes just focusing on energy and money is wrong:

All lighting has advantages, none should be banned
(and the regulations effectively ban incandescent technology given Energy Act second phase specification of 45 lumen per W before 2020)

Unjustified:

Firstly in being on a Safe-to-use product
(unlike say lead paint,  and indeed possibly some of the lighting
alternatives offered)
with usage advantages also compared to temporary replacement Halogens etc

(continued)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes just focusing on energy and money is wrong:</p>
<p>All lighting has advantages, none should be banned<br />
(and the regulations effectively ban incandescent technology given Energy Act second phase specification of 45 lumen per W before 2020)</p>
<p>Unjustified:</p>
<p>Firstly in being on a Safe-to-use product<br />
(unlike say lead paint,  and indeed possibly some of the lighting<br />
alternatives offered)<br />
with usage advantages also compared to temporary replacement Halogens etc</p>
<p>(continued)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: CFL bulbs &#8216;can cause migraines&#8217; warn experts &#171; eeS GROUP</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/07/19/the-department-of-energy-could-use-a-little-emotion-in-its-energy-conservation-campaign/#comment-108436</link>
		<dc:creator>CFL bulbs &#8216;can cause migraines&#8217; warn experts &#171; eeS GROUP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jul 2011 23:14:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=19658#comment-108436</guid>
		<description>[...] The Department Of Energy Could Use A Little Emotion In Its Energy Conservation Campaign &#124; The Inters... (blogs.discovermagazine.com) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The Department Of Energy Could Use A Little Emotion In Its Energy Conservation Campaign | The Inters&#8230; (blogs.discovermagazine.com) [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Nullius in Verba</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/07/19/the-department-of-energy-could-use-a-little-emotion-in-its-energy-conservation-campaign/#comment-108398</link>
		<dc:creator>Nullius in Verba</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jul 2011 18:22:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=19658#comment-108398</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;Nullius, while I think you have a point, that for some it is an issue of liberty,...&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Thank you.

&lt;i&gt;&quot;...(I think the appeal above Vernon is talking about is not actually making this argument. It is instead using it to make an emotional appeal to a subset to then not side with “the Democrats.”&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Is it? I&#039;m afraid I just read the bit quoted above.
&quot;Some politicians in Washington don’t think you’re all that bright. They believe that you can’t make wise decisions in your day-to-day life, so they have taken it upon themselves to impose regulations to protect you from yourself.&quot;

They don&#039;t mention the Democrats; &quot;some politicians&quot; could also refer to any Republicans who sided with the ban. The primary arguments made here seem to be them making regulations to protect you from yourself, and Nanny State overreach. Isn&#039;t that raising straightforward Harm Principle issues rather than making an emotional appeal not to side with Democrats? The only way I can see it appealing to emotions is if one is emotionally committed to the Harm Principle - which obviously many are, but interpreting it so relies on it being a liberty issue first.

I suppose, in a sense, it is a gift to the GOP that the Democrats have introduced such illiberal legislation, and they are taking advantage of it in their rhetoric. But that&#039;s surely the job of a political opposition; not something to criticise them for. Don&#039;t the Democrats ever criticise Republicans for their own electoral ends?

#8,

That&#039;s precisely the sort of interpretation that scares people so. It would mean that absolutely anything that used energy - i.e. absolutely anything - was subject to regulation. We&#039;re talking here about less than 10 W averaged round-the-clock in some cases - there are relatively few things falling below such a threshold. Anything deemed by the authorities to be &quot;wasteful&quot; could be banned - or not banned - at their whim. It would be the perfect totalitarian tool of social engineering.

It also assumes that my using a 100 W instead of a 70 W light bulb causes &quot;serious harm&quot;, and that using a 70 W bulb instead could prevent it. Obviously, neither is true - even on the basis of the consensus. One person&#039;s energy usage is insignificant.

#9,

I&#039;m not assuming that. Nor is it relevant. Some or all - we don&#039;t want to get into the habit of banning things without good reason.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;Nullius, while I think you have a point, that for some it is an issue of liberty,&#8230;&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Thank you.</p>
<p><i>&#8220;&#8230;(I think the appeal above Vernon is talking about is not actually making this argument. It is instead using it to make an emotional appeal to a subset to then not side with “the Democrats.”&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Is it? I&#8217;m afraid I just read the bit quoted above.<br />
&#8220;Some politicians in Washington don’t think you’re all that bright. They believe that you can’t make wise decisions in your day-to-day life, so they have taken it upon themselves to impose regulations to protect you from yourself.&#8221;</p>
<p>They don&#8217;t mention the Democrats; &#8220;some politicians&#8221; could also refer to any Republicans who sided with the ban. The primary arguments made here seem to be them making regulations to protect you from yourself, and Nanny State overreach. Isn&#8217;t that raising straightforward Harm Principle issues rather than making an emotional appeal not to side with Democrats? The only way I can see it appealing to emotions is if one is emotionally committed to the Harm Principle &#8211; which obviously many are, but interpreting it so relies on it being a liberty issue first.</p>
<p>I suppose, in a sense, it is a gift to the GOP that the Democrats have introduced such illiberal legislation, and they are taking advantage of it in their rhetoric. But that&#8217;s surely the job of a political opposition; not something to criticise them for. Don&#8217;t the Democrats ever criticise Republicans for their own electoral ends?</p>
<p>#8,</p>
<p>That&#8217;s precisely the sort of interpretation that scares people so. It would mean that absolutely anything that used energy &#8211; i.e. absolutely anything &#8211; was subject to regulation. We&#8217;re talking here about less than 10 W averaged round-the-clock in some cases &#8211; there are relatively few things falling below such a threshold. Anything deemed by the authorities to be &#8220;wasteful&#8221; could be banned &#8211; or not banned &#8211; at their whim. It would be the perfect totalitarian tool of social engineering.</p>
<p>It also assumes that my using a 100 W instead of a 70 W light bulb causes &#8220;serious harm&#8221;, and that using a 70 W bulb instead could prevent it. Obviously, neither is true &#8211; even on the basis of the consensus. One person&#8217;s energy usage is insignificant.</p>
<p>#9,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not assuming that. Nor is it relevant. Some or all &#8211; we don&#8217;t want to get into the habit of banning things without good reason.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Chris Jarrett</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/07/19/the-department-of-energy-could-use-a-little-emotion-in-its-energy-conservation-campaign/#comment-108387</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Jarrett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jul 2011 17:07:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=19658#comment-108387</guid>
		<description>Joseph - your use of Mill&#039;s Harm Principle assumes that everyone agrees on harm and that&#039;s exactly where Mill&#039;s principle completely breaks down. You continue to use a false dichotomy fallacy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joseph &#8211; your use of Mill&#8217;s Harm Principle assumes that everyone agrees on harm and that&#8217;s exactly where Mill&#8217;s principle completely breaks down. You continue to use a false dichotomy fallacy.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Joe H.</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/07/19/the-department-of-energy-could-use-a-little-emotion-in-its-energy-conservation-campaign/#comment-108381</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe H.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jul 2011 16:43:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=19658#comment-108381</guid>
		<description>Liberals lost this fight. They got smacked in the head with the big brass balls of the GOP misinformation machine. Playing reactionary and changing tactics will only let them do that again, and keep you on your heels. Economic tactics have been the liberal&#039;s only success in bridging the gap on energy and environment for the past 30 years. Don&#039;t change that now. You can&#039;t win a fight on your heels. Stick to the game plan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Liberals lost this fight. They got smacked in the head with the big brass balls of the GOP misinformation machine. Playing reactionary and changing tactics will only let them do that again, and keep you on your heels. Economic tactics have been the liberal&#8217;s only success in bridging the gap on energy and environment for the past 30 years. Don&#8217;t change that now. You can&#8217;t win a fight on your heels. Stick to the game plan.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mike H</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/07/19/the-department-of-energy-could-use-a-little-emotion-in-its-energy-conservation-campaign/#comment-108363</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jul 2011 13:59:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=19658#comment-108363</guid>
		<description>What will surely be the good Doctor&#039;s inevitable reply to this issue:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh2sWSVRrmo</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What will surely be the good Doctor&#8217;s inevitable reply to this issue:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh2sWSVRrmo" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh2sWSVRrmo</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: William</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/07/19/the-department-of-energy-could-use-a-little-emotion-in-its-energy-conservation-campaign/#comment-108348</link>
		<dc:creator>William</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jul 2011 12:02:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=19658#comment-108348</guid>
		<description>PS - The worst part of all this is that you all seem to be assuming the bill completely outlaws incandescents, which is clearly does not.  Yet another Republican lie.  It only outlaws the most inefficient incandescents.  Other incandescents that meet the new efficiency standard are currently available and are still much cheaper than CFLs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PS &#8211; The worst part of all this is that you all seem to be assuming the bill completely outlaws incandescents, which is clearly does not.  Yet another Republican lie.  It only outlaws the most inefficient incandescents.  Other incandescents that meet the new efficiency standard are currently available and are still much cheaper than CFLs.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: William</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/07/19/the-department-of-energy-could-use-a-little-emotion-in-its-energy-conservation-campaign/#comment-108347</link>
		<dc:creator>William</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jul 2011 12:01:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=19658#comment-108347</guid>
		<description>Lightbulb regulation is absolutely consistent with the harm principle.  Egregious waste of limited energy supply and the attendant environmental and societal damage is a very serious harm that affects every one of us.  Not to mention the imminent risk of personal harm many Americans face in order to secure our overseas energy supplies from their native inhabitants.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lightbulb regulation is absolutely consistent with the harm principle.  Egregious waste of limited energy supply and the attendant environmental and societal damage is a very serious harm that affects every one of us.  Not to mention the imminent risk of personal harm many Americans face in order to secure our overseas energy supplies from their native inhabitants.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

<!-- Performance optimized by W3 Total Cache. Learn more: http://www.w3-edge.com/wordpress-plugins/

Minified using disk
Page Caching using disk

Served from: blogs.discovermagazine.com @ 2012-05-26 08:05:10 -->
