Comments on: The Perils of an Enraged Base http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/07/27/the-perils-of-an-enraged-base/ Tue, 27 Sep 2011 17:28:30 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.2 By: Brian Too http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/07/27/the-perils-of-an-enraged-base/#comment-55842 Brian Too Thu, 28 Jul 2011 00:22:50 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=19859#comment-55842 I actually think the problem is larger than the Tea Party. Cynicism about government is easy and cheap. And, let's be honest, government can give us a lot to be cynical about. However people tend to live up (or down) to the standard you hold them to. I think the same is true of government. With so little expectation placed on the government, and reflexive efforts to find something wrong with every government program, what incentive does government have to be effective? Efficient? Intelligent? Very little indeed. For they know that the cynics will find something wrong, always, and focus 100% on even minor failings. To be a government worker is to live a life experiencing the stick way more often than the carrot. I actually think the problem is larger than the Tea Party. Cynicism about government is easy and cheap. And, let’s be honest, government can give us a lot to be cynical about.

However people tend to live up (or down) to the standard you hold them to. I think the same is true of government. With so little expectation placed on the government, and reflexive efforts to find something wrong with every government program, what incentive does government have to be effective? Efficient? Intelligent?

Very little indeed. For they know that the cynics will find something wrong, always, and focus 100% on even minor failings. To be a government worker is to live a life experiencing the stick way more often than the carrot.

]]> By: ╦heBigo╦ http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/07/27/the-perils-of-an-enraged-base/#comment-55841 ╦heBigo╦ Wed, 27 Jul 2011 22:50:18 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=19859#comment-55841 I would like the debt ceiling to be lowered, not halted or raised. Especially not raised. I would like the debt ceiling to be lowered, not halted or raised. Especially not raised.

]]> By: Johnny http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/07/27/the-perils-of-an-enraged-base/#comment-55840 Johnny Wed, 27 Jul 2011 18:10:05 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=19859#comment-55840 @ 7 & 9 When Chris usually posts in the comments, his posts are highlighted, so not sure if you're real. --- If Obama is blamed for a debt disaster, it could mean a a Tea Party President. Imagine that. Its illogical to compare a sitting elected official like Obama with a political action organization like the Tea Party, in terms of "blame" for political events. Obama has everything to lose, namely his job. The Tea Party has nothing to lose. If some of the congressman who it help elect are defeated, it will simply endorse other candidates. The Tea Party loyalist will still vote for their candidates, and progressives will still vote for whatever democrat is opposing them. The Tea Party's power lies outside the progressive sphere, in its ability to shape GOP primary elections. @ 7 & 9

When Chris usually posts in the comments, his posts are highlighted, so not sure if you’re real.

—

If Obama is blamed for a debt disaster, it could mean a a Tea Party President. Imagine that.

Its illogical to compare a sitting elected official like Obama with a political action organization like the Tea Party, in terms of “blame” for political events.

Obama has everything to lose, namely his job. The Tea Party has nothing to lose.

If some of the congressman who it help elect are defeated, it will simply endorse other candidates. The Tea Party loyalist will still vote for their candidates, and progressives will still vote for whatever democrat is opposing them. The Tea Party’s power lies outside the progressive sphere, in its ability to shape GOP primary elections.

]]> By: Chris Mooney http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/07/27/the-perils-of-an-enraged-base/#comment-55839 Chris Mooney Wed, 27 Jul 2011 16:45:06 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=19859#comment-55839 From what I can tell, the pollsters/pundits think Tea Partiers would be blamed, not Obama, for a crash due to not raising the debt ceiling. From what I can tell, the pollsters/pundits think Tea Partiers would be blamed, not Obama, for a crash due to not raising the debt ceiling.

]]> By: TTT http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/07/27/the-perils-of-an-enraged-base/#comment-55838 TTT Wed, 27 Jul 2011 16:43:34 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=19859#comment-55838 Chris: if the economy crashes, Obama almost certainly loses in '12. The teabaggers hate Obama more than they love America, so they're willing to make it happen. Chris: if the economy crashes, Obama almost certainly loses in ’12. The teabaggers hate Obama more than they love America, so they’re willing to make it happen.

]]> By: Chris Mooney http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/07/27/the-perils-of-an-enraged-base/#comment-55837 Chris Mooney Wed, 27 Jul 2011 16:39:13 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=19859#comment-55837 It's a win win if the economy crashes and the voters punish them for it, and they all get voted out and Obama gets re-elected because of it? How is that a win for the Tea Party? It’s a win win if the economy crashes and the voters punish them for it, and they all get voted out and Obama gets re-elected because of it? How is that a win for the Tea Party?

]]> By: Johnny http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/07/27/the-perils-of-an-enraged-base/#comment-55836 Johnny Wed, 27 Jul 2011 16:30:55 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=19859#comment-55836 For the Tea Party its a Win-Win. If they get their Budget passed they win. If the government gets downgraded, and is forced to stop borrowing, they win. If the government can't afford entitlement spending, and social programs are cut, they win. For the Tea Party its a Win-Win.

If they get their Budget passed they win. If the government gets downgraded, and is forced to stop borrowing, they win. If the government can’t afford entitlement spending, and social programs are cut, they win.

]]> By: Mike H http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/07/27/the-perils-of-an-enraged-base/#comment-55835 Mike H Wed, 27 Jul 2011 16:28:35 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=19859#comment-55835 @ JMW "unreasonable agendas" ... like getting the nation's finances back in order ... very unreasonable. @ JMW “unreasonable agendas” … like getting the nation’s finances back in order … very unreasonable.

]]> By: JMW http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/07/27/the-perils-of-an-enraged-base/#comment-55834 JMW Wed, 27 Jul 2011 15:47:12 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=19859#comment-55834 Representative democracy, especially in the time of Edmund Burke, was founded on the idea of a representative exercising his (or these days, her) judgement on behalf of his/her constituents. But the reasoning behind this was that government met in a central location (London), geographically remote from the constituents of many representatives - and communications between representative and constituent could take weeks. Today's technology has, in effect, rendered representative democracy unnecessary. This is not to say that it is undesirable, or redundant. But it isn't necessary. The Tea Party seems to be plugged into that fact better than anyone else. Too bad they're taking advantage of this fact to push some unreasonable agendas. And they're being rude while they're at it. But the fact remains, to summarize Mr. Frum (and you have no idea how it hurts for me to give him credit for anything positive) - the GOP have sown the wind and they will reap the whirlwind. Representative democracy, especially in the time of Edmund Burke, was founded on the idea of a representative exercising his (or these days, her) judgement on behalf of his/her constituents. But the reasoning behind this was that government met in a central location (London), geographically remote from the constituents of many representatives – and communications between representative and constituent could take weeks.

Today’s technology has, in effect, rendered representative democracy unnecessary. This is not to say that it is undesirable, or redundant. But it isn’t necessary. The Tea Party seems to be plugged into that fact better than anyone else. Too bad they’re taking advantage of this fact to push some unreasonable agendas. And they’re being rude while they’re at it.

But the fact remains, to summarize Mr. Frum (and you have no idea how it hurts for me to give him credit for anything positive) – the GOP have sown the wind and they will reap the whirlwind.

]]> By: kirk http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/07/27/the-perils-of-an-enraged-base/#comment-55833 kirk Wed, 27 Jul 2011 15:24:35 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=19859#comment-55833 The parking brake on my car was designed to stop my car from rolling down hill while it is parked. An adaptation - a change in my behavior - can change the utility of the parking brake into an emergency brake. If all the brake fluid leaks from my brake system I can change my policy about only using the parking brake for parking to a new behavior - using the parking brake as an emergency brake when not parking. Try it. You can adapt too. What drives biological/cultural evolution? This is just inclusive fitness at work. See Hume for a better solution to your numerous objections about what 'should' or 'ought' to happen with politics and emergency brakes. I don't like Darwin on my front porch either. But as my son the engineer says "Evolution doesn't care what you think." The parking brake on my car was designed to stop my car from rolling down hill while it is parked. An adaptation – a change in my behavior – can change the utility of the parking brake into an emergency brake. If all the brake fluid leaks from my brake system I can change my policy about only using the parking brake for parking to a new behavior – using the parking brake as an emergency brake when not parking. Try it. You can adapt too.

What drives biological/cultural evolution? This is just inclusive fitness at work. See Hume for a better solution to your numerous objections about what ‘should’ or ‘ought’ to happen with politics and emergency brakes.

I don’t like Darwin on my front porch either. But as my son the engineer says “Evolution doesn’t care what you think.”

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