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	<title>Comments on: Global Warming, the Tea Party, and Unwavering Certainty</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/09/09/global-warming-the-tea-party-and-unwaverin-certainty/</link>
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		<title>By: Is Obama dragging his feet on environmental issues to get reelected? &#171; Bitter Harvest</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/09/09/global-warming-the-tea-party-and-unwaverin-certainty/#comment-57320</link>
		<dc:creator>Is Obama dragging his feet on environmental issues to get reelected? &#171; Bitter Harvest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Sep 2011 17:21:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=21030#comment-57320</guid>
		<description>[...] Global Warming, the Tea Party, and Unwavering Certainty &#124; The Intersection [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Global Warming, the Tea Party, and Unwavering Certainty | The Intersection [...] </p>
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		<title>By: Nullius in Verba</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/09/09/global-warming-the-tea-party-and-unwaverin-certainty/#comment-57319</link>
		<dc:creator>Nullius in Verba</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Sep 2011 22:55:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=21030#comment-57319</guid>
		<description>#23,

Well, like I say, I don&#039;t know anybody that fundamental, so I&#039;m not saying you&#039;re wrong. I do know a lot of climate sceptics, though, most of who are not noticeably religious, and lack of 100% certainly is most definitely not the reason they doubt.

Supposing what you say of fundamentalists to be true, I do wonder if the reason might not be the other way round. They&#039;re religious, and used to statements of certainty, and &lt;i&gt;therefore&lt;/i&gt; they demand 100% certainty. For most people I think the religion comes first - from their upbringing in a particular community - and their worldview subsequently gets fitted around that prior belief. I&#039;m not saying it&#039;s so - just a possibility worth considering.

If you started from a position only of seeking certainty, and then decided whether to be religious or scientific in your outlook, I think you might well go for science. As they say, would you fly in a plane designed by theologians?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#23,</p>
<p>Well, like I say, I don&#8217;t know anybody that fundamental, so I&#8217;m not saying you&#8217;re wrong. I do know a lot of climate sceptics, though, most of who are not noticeably religious, and lack of 100% certainly is most definitely not the reason they doubt.</p>
<p>Supposing what you say of fundamentalists to be true, I do wonder if the reason might not be the other way round. They&#8217;re religious, and used to statements of certainty, and <i>therefore</i> they demand 100% certainty. For most people I think the religion comes first &#8211; from their upbringing in a particular community &#8211; and their worldview subsequently gets fitted around that prior belief. I&#8217;m not saying it&#8217;s so &#8211; just a possibility worth considering.</p>
<p>If you started from a position only of seeking certainty, and then decided whether to be religious or scientific in your outlook, I think you might well go for science. As they say, would you fly in a plane designed by theologians?</p>
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		<title>By: JMW</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/09/09/global-warming-the-tea-party-and-unwaverin-certainty/#comment-57318</link>
		<dc:creator>JMW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Sep 2011 21:49:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=21030#comment-57318</guid>
		<description>@22 Nullius.  Hi!  Having debated people like this in other fora, what I find is that they need the 100% certainty.  Science cannot offer this, but religious texts do say, &quot;This is the way it is.&quot;  Religious texts do not say, &quot;This is the way it might be.&quot;

And because they need that absolute certainty, they take the answer that gives them what they want.

I have to stress that&#039;s just my reading of it, influenced in part by &quot;Voltaire&#039;s Bastards&quot;, among others.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@22 Nullius.  Hi!  Having debated people like this in other fora, what I find is that they need the 100% certainty.  Science cannot offer this, but religious texts do say, &#8220;This is the way it is.&#8221;  Religious texts do not say, &#8220;This is the way it might be.&#8221;</p>
<p>And because they need that absolute certainty, they take the answer that gives them what they want.</p>
<p>I have to stress that&#8217;s just my reading of it, influenced in part by &#8220;Voltaire&#8217;s Bastards&#8221;, among others.</p>
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		<title>By: Nullius in Verba</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/09/09/global-warming-the-tea-party-and-unwaverin-certainty/#comment-57317</link>
		<dc:creator>Nullius in Verba</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Sep 2011 18:41:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=21030#comment-57317</guid>
		<description>#19,
&lt;i&gt;&quot;They must have concrete, 100% guaranteed answers to everything. Since science cannot provide this, they disbelieve the science.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

But since science - when correctly applied - provides more certainty than any other method, wouldn&#039;t that imply they ought to believe in it more than most people?

I don&#039;t know anyone quite that fundamental, so I couldn&#039;t say whether you might be right or not. Still, I can&#039;t help thinking it would be better than having no requirement for having any answers to anything.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#19,<br />
<i>&#8220;They must have concrete, 100% guaranteed answers to everything. Since science cannot provide this, they disbelieve the science.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>But since science &#8211; when correctly applied &#8211; provides more certainty than any other method, wouldn&#8217;t that imply they ought to believe in it more than most people?</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know anyone quite that fundamental, so I couldn&#8217;t say whether you might be right or not. Still, I can&#8217;t help thinking it would be better than having no requirement for having any answers to anything.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Patterson</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/09/09/global-warming-the-tea-party-and-unwaverin-certainty/#comment-57316</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Patterson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Sep 2011 18:22:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=21030#comment-57316</guid>
		<description>@ Luke Scientiae - Your reasoning is unsound. When observations exceed the confidence bounds of a model&#039;s projection, in either direction, the only scientifically sound conclusion that can be drawn is the the model is incorrect. When observation exceed predictions, it is pure speculation to assign attribution to one factor (e.g. CO2 emissions) and say &quot;see, it&#039;s worse than we thought&quot;. An equally valid (and equally speculative) conclusion is that the man induced  component of GW is negligible and is being swamped by natural factors  beyond our control.

&quot;Models are based on ever-improving understanding.&quot; - No doubt and I&#039;m all for research which furthers that goal. In the mean time, we need much more transparency as to the model inadequacies and level of  uncertainty in these projections so that policy makers can make  realistic cost/benefit assessments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Luke Scientiae &#8211; Your reasoning is unsound. When observations exceed the confidence bounds of a model&#8217;s projection, in either direction, the only scientifically sound conclusion that can be drawn is the the model is incorrect. When observation exceed predictions, it is pure speculation to assign attribution to one factor (e.g. CO2 emissions) and say &#8220;see, it&#8217;s worse than we thought&#8221;. An equally valid (and equally speculative) conclusion is that the man induced  component of GW is negligible and is being swamped by natural factors  beyond our control.</p>
<p>&#8220;Models are based on ever-improving understanding.&#8221; &#8211; No doubt and I&#8217;m all for research which furthers that goal. In the mean time, we need much more transparency as to the model inadequacies and level of  uncertainty in these projections so that policy makers can make  realistic cost/benefit assessments.</p>
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		<title>By: Kirk</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/09/09/global-warming-the-tea-party-and-unwaverin-certainty/#comment-57315</link>
		<dc:creator>Kirk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Sep 2011 16:12:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=21030#comment-57315</guid>
		<description>The second coming Yeats alluded to was another world war, far worse than anything seen before, run by the Rough Beast. In Kevin Kline&#039;s terms the Rough Beast is the Technium, humankind merged with the artifacts of our technology. That&#039;s pretty awesome foresight for a poem written in 1920. Have drones much?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The second coming Yeats alluded to was another world war, far worse than anything seen before, run by the Rough Beast. In Kevin Kline&#8217;s terms the Rough Beast is the Technium, humankind merged with the artifacts of our technology. That&#8217;s pretty awesome foresight for a poem written in 1920. Have drones much?</p>
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		<title>By: JMW</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/09/09/global-warming-the-tea-party-and-unwaverin-certainty/#comment-57314</link>
		<dc:creator>JMW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Sep 2011 13:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=21030#comment-57314</guid>
		<description>Chris, it seems to me that your language implies that religious fundamentalists are a) in denial about climate science and evolution and b) highly certain of their opinions, as if these two things are not related.

But I think that one thing you might want to consider is that religious fundamentalists deny climate science and evolution because they have a need for certainty.  They must have concrete, 100% guaranteed answers to everything.  Since science cannot provide this, they disbelieve the science.

It&#039;s this lack of tolerance of doubt, lack of tolerance of uncertainty, that is a central thesis of &quot;Voltaire&#039;s Bastards&quot;.  I recommend it to you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris, it seems to me that your language implies that religious fundamentalists are a) in denial about climate science and evolution and b) highly certain of their opinions, as if these two things are not related.</p>
<p>But I think that one thing you might want to consider is that religious fundamentalists deny climate science and evolution because they have a need for certainty.  They must have concrete, 100% guaranteed answers to everything.  Since science cannot provide this, they disbelieve the science.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s this lack of tolerance of doubt, lack of tolerance of uncertainty, that is a central thesis of &#8220;Voltaire&#8217;s Bastards&#8221;.  I recommend it to you.</p>
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		<title>By: Nullius in Verba</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/09/09/global-warming-the-tea-party-and-unwaverin-certainty/#comment-57313</link>
		<dc:creator>Nullius in Verba</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Sep 2011 06:09:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=21030#comment-57313</guid>
		<description>Or to put it more briefly...

Virtually none of the commenters would be paid by the fossil fuel industry, while many of the climate scientists are. The fossil fuel conspiracy theories are ad hominem, untrue, and equally applicable to both sides.

There&#039;s a lot more wrong than just not having shown 100% proof. If scientists predicted a 98% earth-asteroid collision, they wouldn&#039;t be hiding the data or calculations, seeking to prevent them being scrutinised.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Or to put it more briefly&#8230;</p>
<p>Virtually none of the commenters would be paid by the fossil fuel industry, while many of the climate scientists are. The fossil fuel conspiracy theories are ad hominem, untrue, and equally applicable to both sides.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s a lot more wrong than just not having shown 100% proof. If scientists predicted a 98% earth-asteroid collision, they wouldn&#8217;t be hiding the data or calculations, seeking to prevent them being scrutinised.</p>
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		<title>By: Forest</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/09/09/global-warming-the-tea-party-and-unwaverin-certainty/#comment-57312</link>
		<dc:creator>Forest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Sep 2011 02:43:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=21030#comment-57312</guid>
		<description>It would be interesting to see the percentage of anticlimate-change responders found in the editorial and op-ed blogs who are in some way remunerated by the fossil fuel industry.  The pattern I see based on the same outdated, ignorant or disingenuous arguments which seem to use the same wording and personal debasement attacks is one of paid (fossil) employees whose job is to cast drought on science.  Anything that is not 100% proven must be doubted and summarily dismissed as &quot;junk&quot;.  High probability forecasts, based on peer-reviewed science and evidence, apparently count for nothing. If scientists predicted a 98% earth-asteroid collision, which could exterminate all life, but the cost to send a mission to stop it would be about the same as fighting climate change, I imagine the 2% doubt would be enough to argue for doing nothing because it would jeopardize the economy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It would be interesting to see the percentage of anticlimate-change responders found in the editorial and op-ed blogs who are in some way remunerated by the fossil fuel industry.  The pattern I see based on the same outdated, ignorant or disingenuous arguments which seem to use the same wording and personal debasement attacks is one of paid (fossil) employees whose job is to cast drought on science.  Anything that is not 100% proven must be doubted and summarily dismissed as &#8220;junk&#8221;.  High probability forecasts, based on peer-reviewed science and evidence, apparently count for nothing. If scientists predicted a 98% earth-asteroid collision, which could exterminate all life, but the cost to send a mission to stop it would be about the same as fighting climate change, I imagine the 2% doubt would be enough to argue for doing nothing because it would jeopardize the economy.</p>
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		<title>By: Oakden Wolf</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2011/09/09/global-warming-the-tea-party-and-unwaverin-certainty/#comment-57311</link>
		<dc:creator>Oakden Wolf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Sep 2011 15:39:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/?p=21030#comment-57311</guid>
		<description>&lt;I&gt;When you merge this with previous data on white male conservatives and climate change,
it becomes apparent that the person least likely to change his mind on this issue
and accept the science is a 1) white 2) male 3) conservative 4) Tea Party American.&lt;/I&gt;

5) And makes inaccurate global warming comments on FreeRepublic hourly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>When you merge this with previous data on white male conservatives and climate change,<br />
it becomes apparent that the person least likely to change his mind on this issue<br />
and accept the science is a 1) white 2) male 3) conservative 4) Tea Party American.</i></p>
<p>5) And makes inaccurate global warming comments on FreeRepublic hourly.</p>
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