Comments on: The Wisdom of Parasites http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2006/02/02/the-wisdom-of-parasites/ A blog about life, past and future. Written by DISCOVER contributing editor and columnist Carl Zimmer. Sun, 22 Nov 2009 14:08:33 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Rasselas http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2006/02/02/the-wisdom-of-parasites/comment-page-5/#comment-19852 Rasselas Thu, 23 Jul 2009 15:58:23 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2006/02/02/the-wisdom-of-parasites/#comment-19852 Janne... ""No need to assume “evolutionary failure” in not stinging the right spot. For a handwaving just-so story, just assume the head sting started as a way to kill a roach to ensure a very fresh, plump corpse for the larvae. Then, a slightly less violent sting would sometimes paralyze - but not outright kill - the host, making for even better conditions. And so, gradually, improvements in accuracy and specificity of the venom would make for better and better conditions for the larvae."" This is a nice explanation... but such a statement as above (which is about the nicest I've heard) leaves us with these questions: How would future generations of wasps KNOW where to sting the cockroach? Is that information transferrable via genes? It seems odd to think that a gene would code for WHERE to poke one's stinger. Like if David threw a stone and hit Goliath on the forehead (his one weak spot) and then some babies crawled into Goliath's comatose body... are they somehow to know (via genetics) [as David never instructs the children] where to sling their stones when they grow up and fight a giant? As this sounds like a fairly "solo-bug" kind of story, it doesn't sound like the mother wasp explains (via oral communication/history) to the child where to guide it's stinger. If the wasp originally was killing (or just paralyzing) the roach... then how did she get it back to the nest for her larvae to crawl into? Or, if left alive and mostly functional, then how did she figure out how to drive the roach to her nest? Does she really know how to parallel park that thing?! ;) Janne… “”No need to assume “evolutionary failure” in not stinging the right spot. For a handwaving just-so story, just assume the head sting started as a way to kill a roach to ensure a very fresh, plump corpse for the larvae. Then, a slightly less violent sting would sometimes paralyze – but not outright kill – the host, making for even better conditions. And so, gradually, improvements in accuracy and specificity of the venom would make for better and better conditions for the larvae.”"

This is a nice explanation… but such a statement as above (which is about the nicest I’ve heard) leaves us with these questions:

How would future generations of wasps KNOW where to sting the cockroach? Is that information transferrable via genes? It seems odd to think that a gene would code for WHERE to poke one’s stinger. Like if David threw a stone and hit Goliath on the forehead (his one weak spot) and then some babies crawled into Goliath’s comatose body… are they somehow to know (via genetics) [as David never instructs the children] where to sling their stones when they grow up and fight a giant?

As this sounds like a fairly “solo-bug” kind of story, it doesn’t sound like the mother wasp explains (via oral communication/history) to the child where to guide it’s stinger.

If the wasp originally was killing (or just paralyzing) the roach… then how did she get it back to the nest for her larvae to crawl into?

Or, if left alive and mostly functional, then how did she figure out how to drive the roach to her nest? Does she really know how to parallel park that thing?! ;)

]]> By: A flight-less Earth? - Bad Astronomy and Universe Today Forum http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2006/02/02/the-wisdom-of-parasites/comment-page-5/#comment-19122 A flight-less Earth? - Bad Astronomy and Universe Today Forum Sat, 06 Jun 2009 08:20:30 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2006/02/02/the-wisdom-of-parasites/#comment-19122 [...] their behaviour, then yes, by all means. Here are two articles on behaviour modifying parasites: The Wisdom of Parasites and The Puppet Master [...] their behaviour, then yes, by all means. Here are two articles on behaviour modifying parasites: The Wisdom of Parasites and The Puppet Master

]]> By: A flight-less Earth? - Bad Astronomy and Universe Today Forum http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2006/02/02/the-wisdom-of-parasites/comment-page-5/#comment-19121 A flight-less Earth? - Bad Astronomy and Universe Today Forum Sat, 06 Jun 2009 08:10:04 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2006/02/02/the-wisdom-of-parasites/#comment-19121 [...] their behaviour, then yes, by all means. Here are two articles on behaviour modifying parasites: The Wisdom of Parasites and The Puppet Master [...] their behaviour, then yes, by all means. Here are two articles on behaviour modifying parasites: The Wisdom of Parasites and The Puppet Master

]]> By: Parasites Unleashed: Deal Me In | The Loom | Discover Magazine http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2006/02/02/the-wisdom-of-parasites/comment-page-5/#comment-6763 Parasites Unleashed: Deal Me In | The Loom | Discover Magazine Sat, 12 Jul 2008 02:44:39 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2006/02/02/the-wisdom-of-parasites/#comment-6763 [...] and obsessed with parasites, and once you’ve captivated their imagination with tales of zombifying wasps and such, you can plunge into some big concepts that apply across biology–concepts that might [...] [...] and obsessed with parasites, and once you’ve captivated their imagination with tales of zombifying wasps and such, you can plunge into some big concepts that apply across biology–concepts that might [...]

]]> By: spazzy mcgee http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2006/02/02/the-wisdom-of-parasites/comment-page-5/#comment-2447 spazzy mcgee Thu, 20 Dec 2007 18:33:09 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2006/02/02/the-wisdom-of-parasites/#comment-2447 When I think of the mountain of sci-fi bits wherein aliens engage in insect behaviors (such as zombifying their kiddies'soon-to-be playpen) I have to wonder: are most sci-fi writers really into entomology, or are they just tapping into an innate human fear of possible buggy behaviors? And film aliens that look like assorted arthropods are just legion. Also, (they aren't parasites, but) the first time I saw a panorpid fly, I was like, "whoa... there's a baby alien/muppet on my arm." (I really like panorpids.) When I think of the mountain of sci-fi bits wherein aliens engage in insect behaviors (such as zombifying their kiddies’soon-to-be playpen) I have to wonder: are most sci-fi writers really into entomology, or are they just tapping into an innate human fear of possible buggy behaviors?

And film aliens that look like assorted arthropods are just legion.

Also, (they aren’t parasites, but) the first time I saw a panorpid fly, I was like, “whoa… there’s a baby alien/muppet on my arm.”

(I really like panorpids.)

]]> By: ctrl http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2006/02/02/the-wisdom-of-parasites/comment-page-5/#comment-2446 ctrl Thu, 04 Jan 2007 23:02:00 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2006/02/02/the-wisdom-of-parasites/#comment-2446 I will definitely be swatting more vigorously when a wasp buzzes by my ear next time! I will definitely be swatting more vigorously when a wasp buzzes by my ear next time!

]]> By: Chad http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2006/02/02/the-wisdom-of-parasites/comment-page-5/#comment-2445 Chad Thu, 04 Jan 2007 21:05:18 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2006/02/02/the-wisdom-of-parasites/#comment-2445 This is straight out of a science fiction movie. It's interesting how one insect can use the host of another for development. Great read. This is straight out of a science fiction movie. It’s interesting how one insect can use the host of another for development. Great read.

]]> By: trevor Nohcud http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2006/02/02/the-wisdom-of-parasites/comment-page-5/#comment-2444 trevor Nohcud Thu, 04 Jan 2007 11:19:13 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2006/02/02/the-wisdom-of-parasites/#comment-2444 It is always amazing when you look at the function and apparent complexity of nature. So much of these interactions between host and prey often depends on chances and chance encounters between the two. Often hosts depend on specific prey and it often not a simple one event in the chain . Often there is a number of very specific steps. One can explain the success of the efforts and the parasitic species success as a matter of simple numbers and statistics. I.e if millions or hundreds of thousand of times this is done a certain number will succeed. Maybe so or maybe not - it is always more than amazing. Look at a female tick. She sits patiently on a blade of grass until a host with the right heat , humidity and carbon dioxide traits just comes by . And then she match latch on the host. Imagine if employers could find employees as determined and loyal as that ? What is not thought of is that there is often a benefit to the host species in some manner to there being preyed upon even if a number of their kind meet their demise. Viruses can often impart certain positive traits or attributes in host species through the implanatation of their dna into host species. Successfull species such as rats and mosquitoes while being despised are incredibly well designed species and should be appreciated as that. It is always amazing when you look at the function and apparent complexity of nature.
So much of these interactions between host and prey often depends on chances and chance encounters between the two.
Often hosts depend on specific prey and it often not a simple one event in the chain . Often there is a number of very specific steps.
One can explain the success of the efforts and the parasitic species success as a matter of simple numbers and statistics.
I.e if millions or hundreds of thousand of times this is done a certain number will succeed.
Maybe so or maybe not – it is always more than amazing.
Look at a female tick.
She sits patiently on a blade of grass until a host with the right heat , humidity and carbon dioxide traits just comes by . And then she match latch on the host.
Imagine if employers could find employees as determined and loyal as that ?
What is not thought of is that there is often a benefit to the host species in some manner to there being preyed upon even if a number of their kind meet their demise.
Viruses can often impart certain positive traits or attributes in host species through the implanatation of their dna into host species.
Successfull species such as rats and mosquitoes while being despised are incredibly well designed species and should be appreciated as that.

]]> By: max http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2006/02/02/the-wisdom-of-parasites/comment-page-5/#comment-2443 max Fri, 19 May 2006 11:37:36 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2006/02/02/the-wisdom-of-parasites/#comment-2443 The wasp slips her stinger through the roach's exoskeleton and directly into the cockroach's brain The wasp slips her stinger through the roach’s exoskeleton and directly into the cockroach’s brain

]]> By: Eric L. http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2006/02/02/the-wisdom-of-parasites/comment-page-5/#comment-2442 Eric L. Tue, 16 May 2006 18:12:12 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2006/02/02/the-wisdom-of-parasites/#comment-2442 As amazing as the Ampulex compressa certainly is, I disagree that "we would do well to follow its lead, and gain the wisdom of parasites." I simply cannot see my wife pissing poison into the brain of an elephant, leading it back to my house, laying her egg on its belly, and allowing our newborn to chew a hole in the elephant and devour it's innards until he grows to adulthood. As much fun as that sounds like it may be, I'd want a little more social interaction for my child. Now, I know what you're going to say: "What could be stronger than the parasitoid-host bond?" I don't know... But, what happens when my baby grows up and goes to college lacking those important "people skills"? It makes me sad just thinking about it. As amazing as the Ampulex compressa certainly is, I disagree that “we would do well to follow its lead, and gain the wisdom of parasites.” I simply cannot see my wife pissing poison into the brain of an elephant, leading it back to my house, laying her egg on its belly, and allowing our newborn to chew a hole in the elephant and devour it’s innards until he grows to adulthood. As much fun as that sounds like it may be, I’d want a little more social interaction for my child. Now, I know what you’re going to say: “What could be stronger than the parasitoid-host bond?” I don’t know… But, what happens when my baby grows up and goes to college lacking those important “people skills”? It makes me sad just thinking about it.

]]> By: Tom http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2006/02/02/the-wisdom-of-parasites/comment-page-5/#comment-2441 Tom Sat, 13 May 2006 14:33:54 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2006/02/02/the-wisdom-of-parasites/#comment-2441 I find it difficult to believe that Natural Selection could develope this type of behavior. I believe there factors involved that we do not yet understand, but Natural Selection? No Way. I find it difficult to believe that Natural Selection could develope this type of behavior. I believe there factors involved that we do not yet understand, but Natural Selection? No Way.

]]> By: Tom http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2006/02/02/the-wisdom-of-parasites/comment-page-5/#comment-2440 Tom Sat, 13 May 2006 14:32:59 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2006/02/02/the-wisdom-of-parasites/#comment-2440 I find it difficult to believe that Natural Selection could develope this type of behavior. I believe there factors involved that we do not yet understand, but Natural Selection? No Way. I find it difficult to believe that Natural Selection could develope this type of behavior. I believe there factors involved that we do not yet understand, but Natural Selection? No Way.

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