Posted by: Mikey | August 16, 2006 02:31 PM

Language may be the common thread. Once women invented names for themselves men’s memories had to improve. Once men invented excuses women’s memories had to improve.

While I agree that trolls must not derail a discussion, their points (so to speak, tongue in cheek) need to be addressed clearly and quickly so that people who are new to creationist clap trap don’t get the idea that people are unable or unwilling to address their “points”.

Boys and girls, what Emanuel Goldstein has done is to try to encourage dismissing evolution without bothering to understand it by making the same criticism of it as has been made of creationist clap-trap (i.e. that it is religiously based). He knows that by a certain age people who doubt evolution are not going to make an exhaustive study of both modern biology and geology and chemistry and probability so if both sides look equally biased there is a better chance that “being open minded” will mean you will go with the belief that makes you feel comfortable in church. Let us ignore the fact that the “religious motivation” claim is false. He no doubt hopes that someone will say that this is irrelevant which would open the question as to why the religious motivation of Intelligent Designers is relevant. This would be a good point if:

A) Both Evolution and ID were both based on equal bodies of evidence and equally sound methodology.

B) The supposed “religious agenda” of evolution were in some way relevant to the theory and it’s mechanism the way the religious agenda of ID is to that movement. [Absent the desire of the evil scientists to convert the world there is still the theory and the evidence. Absent the religious need to have God be compatible with the theistic, interventionist micro-managing, biblical God of the middle-east's "holy scribbling", where is ID? With Scientology, that's where.]

In other words, it is not a good point. fortunately he is probably not still on the discussion to make it explicitly but if you follow the creationism/ID movement to any degree you will see the point made. One falsehood plus one unfounded insinuation equals one good reason to make reasoning and critical thinking a separate, specific and mandatory subject in every school, everywhere in the western world, by force if necessary – which at this point it probably is.

Learn logic kids. It is being denied you for a reason.

And of course this tripartite amalgam has turned out to be spectacularly successful, giving rise to any number of genera and species, ranging all the way from the mighty Catholic Church to small, extinct groups like the Shakers. Plenty of room for thought and research there — don’t be close-minded!

Well, yeah..
Unless your completely non-politically-motivated curiosity *cough* can actually produce testable predictions or evidence that could cast doubt on these well-established ideas, you’re mostly just wasting people’s time.

There’s progress to be made!

They will tell you to question authority! But watch out, if you dare question the foundation of their theories…the mindless developement of all existence, life, mind, and reason itself…you will be branded as a fundie fanatic.

Think about it! Quetion THEM too!