<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Autumn Leaves: The Search for Purpose</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2006/10/17/autumn-leaves-the-search-for-purpose/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2006/10/17/autumn-leaves-the-search-for-purpose/</link>
	<description>A blog about life, past and future. Written by DISCOVER contributing editor and columnist Carl Zimmer.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 14:08:33 -0600</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Fighting Fashionista &#187; 2008 &#187; September &#187; 19</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2006/10/17/autumn-leaves-the-search-for-purpose/comment-page-1/#comment-9651</link>
		<dc:creator>Fighting Fashionista &#187; 2008 &#187; September &#187; 19</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Sep 2008 01:47:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2006/10/17/autumn-leaves-the-search-for-purpose/#comment-9651</guid>
		<description>[...] to produce such a spectacle—is it to deter aphids, which are repelled by red? Or do the colors provide sunscreen while trees fortify themselves for a long, cold winter? Whatever the tree&#8217;s motives, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] to produce such a spectacle—is it to deter aphids, which are repelled by red? Or do the colors provide sunscreen while trees fortify themselves for a long, cold winter? Whatever the tree&#8217;s motives, [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jeremy</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2006/10/17/autumn-leaves-the-search-for-purpose/comment-page-1/#comment-4003</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Dec 2006 16:57:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2006/10/17/autumn-leaves-the-search-for-purpose/#comment-4003</guid>
		<description>From someone who knows nothing about this subject, I will throw in a couple of unresearched ideas I&#039;ve been pondering since reading about this some time ago. Here are two hypotheses:

1) Isn&#039;t chlorophyl broken down and reabsorbed by the tree? Maybe this triggers the production of the yellow pigment. And maybe the yellow pigment, has nothing to do directly with photosynthasis and is really a trigger to cause the leaf to detatch from the tree.

2) Maybe the photosynthesis conducted by the yellow pigment isn&#039;t to support the tree, but maybe some process within the leaf itself. Perhaps it aids the leaf in drying out, therefor minimizing the risk of rotten green follage at the base of the tree.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From someone who knows nothing about this subject, I will throw in a couple of unresearched ideas I&#8217;ve been pondering since reading about this some time ago. Here are two hypotheses:</p>
<p>1) Isn&#8217;t chlorophyl broken down and reabsorbed by the tree? Maybe this triggers the production of the yellow pigment. And maybe the yellow pigment, has nothing to do directly with photosynthasis and is really a trigger to cause the leaf to detatch from the tree.</p>
<p>2) Maybe the photosynthesis conducted by the yellow pigment isn&#8217;t to support the tree, but maybe some process within the leaf itself. Perhaps it aids the leaf in drying out, therefor minimizing the risk of rotten green follage at the base of the tree.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Steviepinhead</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2006/10/17/autumn-leaves-the-search-for-purpose/comment-page-1/#comment-4002</link>
		<dc:creator>Steviepinhead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Dec 2006 18:47:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2006/10/17/autumn-leaves-the-search-for-purpose/#comment-4002</guid>
		<description>First, let me say, Carolyn, that I have absolutely no idea!

But I rather doubt that whatever evolutionary--or other--mechanisms explain the &lt;i&gt;change of color&lt;/i&gt; in leaves would directly explain the &lt;i&gt;retention&lt;/i&gt; of leaves.

The latter sounds more like it might have something to do with providing/retaining a certain type of nutrition--or conceivably, parasite or disease prevention--around the base of the tree in the spring which might be lost if the leaves were released to the whim of the winds, snow, and weather in the fall or winter.  I guess insulation might also be a possibility--I don&#039;t know if leafless oaks and beeches are possibly more cold-susceptible than, say, maples and birches...

(It&#039;s possible, I suppose, that the reverse is true: that is, that leaves retained over the winter are &lt;b&gt;less&lt;/b&gt; likely to contribute to the soil structure or chemistry around the base of the tree, depending again on the affect of wind, weather, etc.  This would flip my speculations around, but I would suspect some of the same factors might be involved, but with the &quot;signs&quot; reversed.)

While the &quot;parasite&quot; notion sounds superficially similar to some of what has been discussed regarding leaf color changes, I suspect that diseases or parasites affecting the base of the tree--where I&#039;m assuming the winter-retained leaves preferentially wind up (or preferentially &lt;i&gt;don&#039;t&lt;/i&gt; wind up, see the parenthetical paragraph...), with some sort of differential impact on the soil structure or chemistry--would be different from those attacking the trunk and branches.

These are, again, the merest speculations.  Scientists who actually know something about trees and leaves would have to pursue these and other notions, filter them through what is known about leaf-detachment mechanisms, the species involved, etc., etc., and then decide which speculations might fruitfully advance to the testible hypothesis stage...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First, let me say, Carolyn, that I have absolutely no idea!</p>
<p>But I rather doubt that whatever evolutionary&#8211;or other&#8211;mechanisms explain the <i>change of color</i> in leaves would directly explain the <i>retention</i> of leaves.</p>
<p>The latter sounds more like it might have something to do with providing/retaining a certain type of nutrition&#8211;or conceivably, parasite or disease prevention&#8211;around the base of the tree in the spring which might be lost if the leaves were released to the whim of the winds, snow, and weather in the fall or winter.  I guess insulation might also be a possibility&#8211;I don&#8217;t know if leafless oaks and beeches are possibly more cold-susceptible than, say, maples and birches&#8230;</p>
<p>(It&#8217;s possible, I suppose, that the reverse is true: that is, that leaves retained over the winter are <b>less</b> likely to contribute to the soil structure or chemistry around the base of the tree, depending again on the affect of wind, weather, etc.  This would flip my speculations around, but I would suspect some of the same factors might be involved, but with the &#8220;signs&#8221; reversed.)</p>
<p>While the &#8220;parasite&#8221; notion sounds superficially similar to some of what has been discussed regarding leaf color changes, I suspect that diseases or parasites affecting the base of the tree&#8211;where I&#8217;m assuming the winter-retained leaves preferentially wind up (or preferentially <i>don&#8217;t</i> wind up, see the parenthetical paragraph&#8230;), with some sort of differential impact on the soil structure or chemistry&#8211;would be different from those attacking the trunk and branches.</p>
<p>These are, again, the merest speculations.  Scientists who actually know something about trees and leaves would have to pursue these and other notions, filter them through what is known about leaf-detachment mechanisms, the species involved, etc., etc., and then decide which speculations might fruitfully advance to the testible hypothesis stage&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Carolyn</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2006/10/17/autumn-leaves-the-search-for-purpose/comment-page-1/#comment-4001</link>
		<dc:creator>Carolyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Dec 2006 00:32:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2006/10/17/autumn-leaves-the-search-for-purpose/#comment-4001</guid>
		<description>So how does any of this explain why oaks and beeches hold their dried-up copper and brown leaves for most or all of the winter?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So how does any of this explain why oaks and beeches hold their dried-up copper and brown leaves for most or all of the winter?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: mark</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2006/10/17/autumn-leaves-the-search-for-purpose/comment-page-1/#comment-4000</link>
		<dc:creator>mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Nov 2006 17:54:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2006/10/17/autumn-leaves-the-search-for-purpose/#comment-4000</guid>
		<description>I wonder what, if any, relationships exist between fall leaf color and the color of flowers and fruits.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder what, if any, relationships exist between fall leaf color and the color of flowers and fruits.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Martin Schaefer</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2006/10/17/autumn-leaves-the-search-for-purpose/comment-page-1/#comment-3999</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin Schaefer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Oct 2006 14:57:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2006/10/17/autumn-leaves-the-search-for-purpose/#comment-3999</guid>
		<description>Tom -We know little about the visual acuity in aphids. What we know is that they perceive yellow and some species are attracted to yellow surfaces (which is often used for catching them in pest control). From work done by others I know that the only aphid species that has been studied is  not sensitive to red light. This would explain why they did not react to colour. But there might also be differences between species.
Here in Europe the timing seems pretty acurate. Several aphid species migrate during leaf colour changes. However, for the skeptics among us, there are obviously a number of other aphid species which migrate earlier or not migrate at all.

As for the production of red pigments: the trees produce them actively, but there are a number of adaptive explanations that do not include defence against aphdis (e.g., protection of photosynthetic tissue and reducing oxidative stress).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom -We know little about the visual acuity in aphids. What we know is that they perceive yellow and some species are attracted to yellow surfaces (which is often used for catching them in pest control). From work done by others I know that the only aphid species that has been studied is  not sensitive to red light. This would explain why they did not react to colour. But there might also be differences between species.<br />
Here in Europe the timing seems pretty acurate. Several aphid species migrate during leaf colour changes. However, for the skeptics among us, there are obviously a number of other aphid species which migrate earlier or not migrate at all.</p>
<p>As for the production of red pigments: the trees produce them actively, but there are a number of adaptive explanations that do not include defence against aphdis (e.g., protection of photosynthetic tissue and reducing oxidative stress).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Paul Decelles</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2006/10/17/autumn-leaves-the-search-for-purpose/comment-page-1/#comment-3998</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Decelles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Oct 2006 22:45:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2006/10/17/autumn-leaves-the-search-for-purpose/#comment-3998</guid>
		<description>Carl,

Do the trees really actively make the red pigments or are they a spontaneous chemical reaction that doesn&#039;t require any work on the part of the tree? If the former than this would strongly suggest that there really is some adaptive significance to the fall colors.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Carl,</p>
<p>Do the trees really actively make the red pigments or are they a spontaneous chemical reaction that doesn&#8217;t require any work on the part of the tree? If the former than this would strongly suggest that there really is some adaptive significance to the fall colors.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tom Kimmerer</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2006/10/17/autumn-leaves-the-search-for-purpose/comment-page-1/#comment-3997</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Kimmerer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Oct 2006 03:58:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2006/10/17/autumn-leaves-the-search-for-purpose/#comment-3997</guid>
		<description>Martin - Thanks for your comments.

What do we know about visual acuity in aphids?  Japanese beetles have a strong preference for trees with red or purple leaves. Can aphids distinguish foliar colors?  I agree that volatile signals related to color are possible (I have published a number of papers on tree volatiles and insect response).

Secondly, I wonder about timing.  Here in Kentucky, most of the peak in fall colors happens when it is too cold for aphids to be dispersing.  So are they cuing on something that precedes coloration?

I still maintain my skepticism, but it seems that understanding the cues to which aphids appear to be responding might help us figure out whether this is a real phenomenon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Martin &#8211; Thanks for your comments.</p>
<p>What do we know about visual acuity in aphids?  Japanese beetles have a strong preference for trees with red or purple leaves. Can aphids distinguish foliar colors?  I agree that volatile signals related to color are possible (I have published a number of papers on tree volatiles and insect response).</p>
<p>Secondly, I wonder about timing.  Here in Kentucky, most of the peak in fall colors happens when it is too cold for aphids to be dispersing.  So are they cuing on something that precedes coloration?</p>
<p>I still maintain my skepticism, but it seems that understanding the cues to which aphids appear to be responding might help us figure out whether this is a real phenomenon.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Martin Schaefer</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2006/10/17/autumn-leaves-the-search-for-purpose/comment-page-1/#comment-3996</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin Schaefer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Oct 2006 16:27:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2006/10/17/autumn-leaves-the-search-for-purpose/#comment-3996</guid>
		<description>I fully understand that tree physiologists are skeptical of the adaptive stories of fall colouration. However, pigments often serve multiple physiological and ecological roles. There is now evidence from different tree species that aphid prefer to colonise trees with less intense fall colouraton. Obviously, this evidence is based on correlations  and thus fails to establish a causal relationship that the co-evolutionary theory assumes. That is why more experimental approaches are needed.
To try to answer some of the questions that arised:
The ash trees in the study were all relatively young small trees that were not in a phase of &#039;terminal investment&#039; in fruits. Still, aphids colonised preferentially trees with higher fruit crops, most likely because more nutrients are transported to the fruits which ripen simultaneously to changes in fall colouration. In this case, aphids apparently used no visual cues in their host choice.
It is unlikely that aphids can smell plant pigments because these are not votile and stored as explained by Tom Kimmerer. At present, it is conceivable that plants emit votiles that correlate with leaf colour or other biochemical changes in the leaf during autumn.
There are some studies that show that the red anthocyanins protect the photosynthetic apparatus of the plant during cold temperatures. This and other physiologically-oriented hypotheses seem now most likely to explain leaf colour changes although we clearly need more studies to rule out other roles, such as signalling to herbivores.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I fully understand that tree physiologists are skeptical of the adaptive stories of fall colouration. However, pigments often serve multiple physiological and ecological roles. There is now evidence from different tree species that aphid prefer to colonise trees with less intense fall colouraton. Obviously, this evidence is based on correlations  and thus fails to establish a causal relationship that the co-evolutionary theory assumes. That is why more experimental approaches are needed.<br />
To try to answer some of the questions that arised:<br />
The ash trees in the study were all relatively young small trees that were not in a phase of &#8216;terminal investment&#8217; in fruits. Still, aphids colonised preferentially trees with higher fruit crops, most likely because more nutrients are transported to the fruits which ripen simultaneously to changes in fall colouration. In this case, aphids apparently used no visual cues in their host choice.<br />
It is unlikely that aphids can smell plant pigments because these are not votile and stored as explained by Tom Kimmerer. At present, it is conceivable that plants emit votiles that correlate with leaf colour or other biochemical changes in the leaf during autumn.<br />
There are some studies that show that the red anthocyanins protect the photosynthetic apparatus of the plant during cold temperatures. This and other physiologically-oriented hypotheses seem now most likely to explain leaf colour changes although we clearly need more studies to rule out other roles, such as signalling to herbivores.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tom Kimmerer</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2006/10/17/autumn-leaves-the-search-for-purpose/comment-page-1/#comment-3995</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Kimmerer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Oct 2006 00:00:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2006/10/17/autumn-leaves-the-search-for-purpose/#comment-3995</guid>
		<description>Correction:

I did not intend to imply that anthocyanins and carotenoids are not &#039;sunscreens.&#039;  They most certainly are. But the sunscreen protection is important at other parts of a leaf&#039;s life history, not at the time of death.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Correction:</p>
<p>I did not intend to imply that anthocyanins and carotenoids are not &#8217;sunscreens.&#8217;  They most certainly are. But the sunscreen protection is important at other parts of a leaf&#8217;s life history, not at the time of death.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tom Kimmerer</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2006/10/17/autumn-leaves-the-search-for-purpose/comment-page-1/#comment-3994</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Kimmerer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Oct 2006 23:48:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2006/10/17/autumn-leaves-the-search-for-purpose/#comment-3994</guid>
		<description>As a tree physiologist, I am always a bit skeptical of adaptive stories about fall colors. They sound a lot like the &quot;Just So Stories&quot; that Stephen J. Gould warned about. Not everything in nature is adaptive, and that is especially true of events at the end of life.

Trees throw away leaves like Kleenex, but not until the tree translocates the good stuff (nitrogen) into the perennial parts. As chlorophyll degrades and its nitrogen moves out, the fading green reveals other colors. Leaves always contain carotenoids (yellow) as accessory pigments in the chloroplast. The leaf synthesizes some anthocyanins (reds and purples) &lt;i&gt;de novo&lt;/i&gt;, but they only become apparent as the vacuole becomes acidic perimortem.

Trees vary in their genetic capacity for anthocyanin synthesis for reasons that may have little to do with fall colors. Black maple lacks anthocyanins and turns yellow, while sugar maple produces anthocyanins, but vacuole pH only declines in full sun. Hence sugar maples are a mosaic of yellows to orange while black maples are always yellow.

Aphids are primarily seeking nitrogen, excreting most of the tree&#039;s carbohydrates as honeydew. Hard to imagine that they would selectively seek out particular trees or leaves just when nitrogen content is declining most rapidly.

The sunscreen argument assumes that there is something to protect. Since most of the nitrogen is out of the leaf by the time colors appear, and the leaves are in advanced senescence by that time, sun protection doesn&#039;t seem very important.

Trees with an abundance of nitrogen, like black locust, don&#039;t bother to translocate nitrogen, dropping green or greenish leaves.  The biochemical state of a leaf when it is finally dropped may have adaptive significance for nutrient cycling. For example, sugar maple leaves with low concentrations of polyphenolics degrade more quickly than the drab brown oak leaves, cycling nutrients more rapidly.

As for the cost argument, the assumption that there is a net cost to color production is unfounded. Caretenoids are constitutive, and anthocyanins reflect modest changes in vacuolar pH.

In the aphid and sunscreen hypotheses, color me skeptical.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a tree physiologist, I am always a bit skeptical of adaptive stories about fall colors. They sound a lot like the &#8220;Just So Stories&#8221; that Stephen J. Gould warned about. Not everything in nature is adaptive, and that is especially true of events at the end of life.</p>
<p>Trees throw away leaves like Kleenex, but not until the tree translocates the good stuff (nitrogen) into the perennial parts. As chlorophyll degrades and its nitrogen moves out, the fading green reveals other colors. Leaves always contain carotenoids (yellow) as accessory pigments in the chloroplast. The leaf synthesizes some anthocyanins (reds and purples) <i>de novo</i>, but they only become apparent as the vacuole becomes acidic perimortem.</p>
<p>Trees vary in their genetic capacity for anthocyanin synthesis for reasons that may have little to do with fall colors. Black maple lacks anthocyanins and turns yellow, while sugar maple produces anthocyanins, but vacuole pH only declines in full sun. Hence sugar maples are a mosaic of yellows to orange while black maples are always yellow.</p>
<p>Aphids are primarily seeking nitrogen, excreting most of the tree&#8217;s carbohydrates as honeydew. Hard to imagine that they would selectively seek out particular trees or leaves just when nitrogen content is declining most rapidly.</p>
<p>The sunscreen argument assumes that there is something to protect. Since most of the nitrogen is out of the leaf by the time colors appear, and the leaves are in advanced senescence by that time, sun protection doesn&#8217;t seem very important.</p>
<p>Trees with an abundance of nitrogen, like black locust, don&#8217;t bother to translocate nitrogen, dropping green or greenish leaves.  The biochemical state of a leaf when it is finally dropped may have adaptive significance for nutrient cycling. For example, sugar maple leaves with low concentrations of polyphenolics degrade more quickly than the drab brown oak leaves, cycling nutrients more rapidly.</p>
<p>As for the cost argument, the assumption that there is a net cost to color production is unfounded. Caretenoids are constitutive, and anthocyanins reflect modest changes in vacuolar pH.</p>
<p>In the aphid and sunscreen hypotheses, color me skeptical.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ben Chase</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2006/10/17/autumn-leaves-the-search-for-purpose/comment-page-1/#comment-3993</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Chase</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Oct 2006 15:07:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2006/10/17/autumn-leaves-the-search-for-purpose/#comment-3993</guid>
		<description>And another thought, about the yellow poplars, which turn yellow.  They turn yellow and drop their leaves a bit sooner than the trees which turn orange and red.  Do the orange and red pigments provide some ability for the leaves to be useful longer, perhaps in the face of early freezes?  (This is too obvious an explanation; surely somebody has already thought of this explanation and disproved it.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And another thought, about the yellow poplars, which turn yellow.  They turn yellow and drop their leaves a bit sooner than the trees which turn orange and red.  Do the orange and red pigments provide some ability for the leaves to be useful longer, perhaps in the face of early freezes?  (This is too obvious an explanation; surely somebody has already thought of this explanation and disproved it.)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
