<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><!-- generator="wordpress/2.3.1" -->
<rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Whales: From So Humble A Beginning&#8230;</title>
	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2007/12/19/whales-from-so-humble-a-beginning/</link>
	<description>A blog about life, past and future. Written by DISCOVER contributing editor and columnist Carl Zimmer.</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 13:03:52 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.1</generator>
		<item>
		<title>By: Dawn of the Picasso Fish &#124; The Loom &#124; Discover Magazine</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2007/12/19/whales-from-so-humble-a-beginning/#comment-6674</link>
		<dc:creator>Dawn of the Picasso Fish &#124; The Loom &#124; Discover Magazine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jul 2008 17:03:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2007/12/19/whales-from-so-humble-a-beginning/#comment-6674</guid>
		<description>[...] fossil hall of fame, along with a fish with limbs, Tiktaalik, and the limbed cousin of whales, Indohyus. They&#8217;re also a reminder that the argument, &#8220;It can&#8217;t possibly have evolved [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] fossil hall of fame, along with a fish with limbs, Tiktaalik, and the limbed cousin of whales, Indohyus. They&#8217;re also a reminder that the argument, &#8220;It can&#8217;t possibly have evolved [&#8230;]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: C. David Parsons</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2007/12/19/whales-from-so-humble-a-beginning/#comment-5856</link>
		<dc:creator>C. David Parsons</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 23:25:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2007/12/19/whales-from-so-humble-a-beginning/#comment-5856</guid>
		<description>"Parsons, explain mules and tigers."

Please know that it is not possible to publish the entire book in this forum.

For more information, purchase Volumes 1 and 2 at your favorite online bookstore. Or go to &lt;a href="http://tatepublishing.com" rel="nofollow"&gt;http://tatepublishing.com&lt;/a&gt; or &lt;a href="http://questforright.com" rel="nofollow"&gt;http://questforright.com&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Parsons, explain mules and tigers.&#8221;</p>
<p>Please know that it is not possible to publish the entire book in this forum.</p>
<p>For more information, purchase Volumes 1 and 2 at your favorite online bookstore. Or go to <a href="http://tatepublishing.com" rel="nofollow">http://tatepublishing.com</a> or <a href="http://questforright.com" rel="nofollow">http://questforright.com</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sordes</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2007/12/19/whales-from-so-humble-a-beginning/#comment-5855</link>
		<dc:creator>Sordes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2008 22:32:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2007/12/19/whales-from-so-humble-a-beginning/#comment-5855</guid>
		<description>I suppose Indohyus probably already ate animals on occasion. A lot of hoofed animals do actually comparably often eat meat, not only carion, but also small animals. Deers are known to eat young birds, reindeers eat lemmings, hippos eat carrion and sometimes even self-killed big animals and wild pigs eat everything, to make only some examples. Besides the occasional carnivorous behavior of hippos the small duikers and chevrotains are probably most interesting in the relation of Indohyus, as they were of comparable size and had a similar habitat. Most duikers are comparably small, and as forest-dwelling herbivores they have to eat comparably energy-rich things, as their short digestive-system is not effective enough to consume big amounts of low-energy-plant-material. But they do not only eat fruits, buds and fresh foiles, but consume also a lot of animals from ants and other insects to amphibians, reptiles, small mammals and birds, as well as carrion. The bird-hunting behavior of duikers is well-documented from zoos. Interestingly their dentition shows no indication for this behavior, but they are very eager to hunt and kill smaller animals.
The chevrotain is even more interesting, as it dives often in small jungle-streams. It is really amazing to see how this little beasts jump into the water and walk on the ground. But they do not only submerge to flee from enemies, but also to collect fruits which has fallen in the water, and sometimes they even catch small fish.
I can well imagine that occasional carnivory was already present at a very early stage.
BTW, here</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suppose Indohyus probably already ate animals on occasion. A lot of hoofed animals do actually comparably often eat meat, not only carion, but also small animals. Deers are known to eat young birds, reindeers eat lemmings, hippos eat carrion and sometimes even self-killed big animals and wild pigs eat everything, to make only some examples. Besides the occasional carnivorous behavior of hippos the small duikers and chevrotains are probably most interesting in the relation of Indohyus, as they were of comparable size and had a similar habitat. Most duikers are comparably small, and as forest-dwelling herbivores they have to eat comparably energy-rich things, as their short digestive-system is not effective enough to consume big amounts of low-energy-plant-material. But they do not only eat fruits, buds and fresh foiles, but consume also a lot of animals from ants and other insects to amphibians, reptiles, small mammals and birds, as well as carrion. The bird-hunting behavior of duikers is well-documented from zoos. Interestingly their dentition shows no indication for this behavior, but they are very eager to hunt and kill smaller animals.<br />
The chevrotain is even more interesting, as it dives often in small jungle-streams. It is really amazing to see how this little beasts jump into the water and walk on the ground. But they do not only submerge to flee from enemies, but also to collect fruits which has fallen in the water, and sometimes they even catch small fish.<br />
I can well imagine that occasional carnivory was already present at a very early stage.<br />
BTW, here</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Carl Zimmer</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2007/12/19/whales-from-so-humble-a-beginning/#comment-5854</link>
		<dc:creator>Carl Zimmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Dec 2007 05:55:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2007/12/19/whales-from-so-humble-a-beginning/#comment-5854</guid>
		<description>Noumenon--good question. See my latest post for an answer: &lt;a href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2007/12/27/return_to_the_dawn_of_whales_c/" rel="nofollow"&gt;http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2007/12/27/return_to_the_dawn_of_whales_c/&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Noumenon&#8211;good question. See my latest post for an answer: <a href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2007/12/27/return_to_the_dawn_of_whales_c/" rel="nofollow">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2007/12/27/return_to_the_dawn_of_whales_c/</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Flamethorn</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2007/12/19/whales-from-so-humble-a-beginning/#comment-5853</link>
		<dc:creator>Flamethorn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Dec 2007 17:09:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2007/12/19/whales-from-so-humble-a-beginning/#comment-5853</guid>
		<description>Parsons, explain mules and ligers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Parsons, explain mules and ligers.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Noumenon</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2007/12/19/whales-from-so-humble-a-beginning/#comment-5852</link>
		<dc:creator>Noumenon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Dec 2007 09:04:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2007/12/19/whales-from-so-humble-a-beginning/#comment-5852</guid>
		<description>I don't understand how Indohyus and Ambulocetus, both dated to around 47 mya, can both be the ancestors of today's whales.  You say carnivory was an important transition for whales.  Then Indohyus would have had to split off before Pakicetus, before whales became carnivorous.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t understand how Indohyus and Ambulocetus, both dated to around 47 mya, can both be the ancestors of today&#8217;s whales.  You say carnivory was an important transition for whales.  Then Indohyus would have had to split off before Pakicetus, before whales became carnivorous.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Homie Bear</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2007/12/19/whales-from-so-humble-a-beginning/#comment-5851</link>
		<dc:creator>Homie Bear</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Dec 2007 17:06:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2007/12/19/whales-from-so-humble-a-beginning/#comment-5851</guid>
		<description>I'm glad I checked back on this discussion.  Here's a good paleoartist whose work I dig if anyone is interested:
&lt;a href="http://ntamura.deviantart.com/" rel="nofollow"&gt;http://ntamura.deviantart.com/&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m glad I checked back on this discussion.  Here&#8217;s a good paleoartist whose work I dig if anyone is interested:<br />
<a href="http://ntamura.deviantart.com/" rel="nofollow">http://ntamura.deviantart.com/</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: kozmetik</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2007/12/19/whales-from-so-humble-a-beginning/#comment-5850</link>
		<dc:creator>kozmetik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Dec 2007 20:45:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2007/12/19/whales-from-so-humble-a-beginning/#comment-5850</guid>
		<description>Plants are full of indigestible cellulose; that's why extant artiodactyls rely on intestinal symbionts for digestion and have a long intestine (and is some cases, specialized "fermentation vats"). Plants also typically produce toxic defensive chemicals, which must be tolerated or detoxified</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Plants are full of indigestible cellulose; that&#8217;s why extant artiodactyls rely on intestinal symbionts for digestion and have a long intestine (and is some cases, specialized &#8220;fermentation vats&#8221;). Plants also typically produce toxic defensive chemicals, which must be tolerated or detoxified</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: C. David Parsons</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2007/12/19/whales-from-so-humble-a-beginning/#comment-5849</link>
		<dc:creator>C. David Parsons</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Dec 2007 18:30:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2007/12/19/whales-from-so-humble-a-beginning/#comment-5849</guid>
		<description>Concerning Indohyus purposefully altering its genetic coding to simulate the appearance and flesh of a whale:

"Without contradiction, all flesh is not the same flesh. There is one kind of flesh for fish, another kind of flesh for reptiles, another flesh for birds, another for beasts of the field, and yet another for preternatural creatures. Man, incorrectly classified as a mammal ("beast of the field"), is mandated with a unique type of flesh which differs from all other species. This includes the family of apes which obstructionists theorize to be man's closest ancestors.

It is an indisputable, biological fact that flesh of different types cannot mate and produce a hybrid or intermediate species. A fish cannot mate with a chicken, a cow with a serpent, or a monkey with a whale. More on scale, but equally ridiculous, a bull cannot mate with a mare, a deer with a buffalo, a goat with a pig, or man with any of the preceding; besides which, there are intermediate categories or variances between species of any one order (except man) which precludes crossbreeding between species closely related. For instance, a chicken may only mate with another of the same flesh; it cannot mate with a duck,
turkey, or any other bird.

The fundamental truth that all flesh is not the same flesh and that species of varying flesh cannot crossbreed is one of the most misrepresented facts in biology. A familiar corruption of the truth is the nonsensical clatter promoted by some biologists, who should know better, that the great dinosaurs did not just die out but may have degraded to birds. Abiding by the prospect, a little wren sitting on a branch may have in its ancestral tree a dinosaur or two. The theory, hyped by the media, often with tongue-in-cheek (poking fun at the biologists), may be dismissed entirely: preternatural creatures were and are of one flesh and birds of another. Any suggested crossover, great dinosaurs mating with wrens, or down pattern; that is, hapless dinosaurs purposefully altering their genetic coding to simulate the
appearance and flesh of birds, borders on the bizarre
and should be held with disdain.

The realized truth, downplayed by biologists, has been recognized by most every man, woman, and child throughout the ages. The law of procreation has not been compromised even though learned men of great patience have tried for years to violate it. The rule is even recorded in the Bible for all to see, perhaps, for such a time as this:

38. But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

39. All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

40. There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and
the glory of the terrestrial is another.

41. There isis one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon,and another glory of the stars:for one star  differeth from another star in glory.--I Corinthians 15

The 2000 year old statement of truth remains unchallenged and reveals the great wisdom of the writer, surpassing that of obstructionist leagues, even in the assertion that "one star differeth from another in glory"; indeed, all stars are not the same as the investigation will bear out."

The text was taken from The Quest for Right, a new series of 7 textbooks created for the public schools. The several volumes are based on physical science, the old science of cause and effect. The Quest for Right levels the playing field between those who teach physical science and those who preach evolution. Volume 1 is currently available at &lt;a href="http://tatepublishing.com" rel="nofollow"&gt;http://tatepublishing.com&lt;/a&gt; Or visit the &lt;a href="http://QuestForRight.com" rel="nofollow"&gt;http://QuestForRight.com&lt;/a&gt; website for more information.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Concerning Indohyus purposefully altering its genetic coding to simulate the appearance and flesh of a whale:</p>
<p>&#8220;Without contradiction, all flesh is not the same flesh. There is one kind of flesh for fish, another kind of flesh for reptiles, another flesh for birds, another for beasts of the field, and yet another for preternatural creatures. Man, incorrectly classified as a mammal (&#8221;beast of the field&#8221;), is mandated with a unique type of flesh which differs from all other species. This includes the family of apes which obstructionists theorize to be man&#8217;s closest ancestors.</p>
<p>It is an indisputable, biological fact that flesh of different types cannot mate and produce a hybrid or intermediate species. A fish cannot mate with a chicken, a cow with a serpent, or a monkey with a whale. More on scale, but equally ridiculous, a bull cannot mate with a mare, a deer with a buffalo, a goat with a pig, or man with any of the preceding; besides which, there are intermediate categories or variances between species of any one order (except man) which precludes crossbreeding between species closely related. For instance, a chicken may only mate with another of the same flesh; it cannot mate with a duck,<br />
turkey, or any other bird.</p>
<p>The fundamental truth that all flesh is not the same flesh and that species of varying flesh cannot crossbreed is one of the most misrepresented facts in biology. A familiar corruption of the truth is the nonsensical clatter promoted by some biologists, who should know better, that the great dinosaurs did not just die out but may have degraded to birds. Abiding by the prospect, a little wren sitting on a branch may have in its ancestral tree a dinosaur or two. The theory, hyped by the media, often with tongue-in-cheek (poking fun at the biologists), may be dismissed entirely: preternatural creatures were and are of one flesh and birds of another. Any suggested crossover, great dinosaurs mating with wrens, or down pattern; that is, hapless dinosaurs purposefully altering their genetic coding to simulate the<br />
appearance and flesh of birds, borders on the bizarre<br />
and should be held with disdain.</p>
<p>The realized truth, downplayed by biologists, has been recognized by most every man, woman, and child throughout the ages. The law of procreation has not been compromised even though learned men of great patience have tried for years to violate it. The rule is even recorded in the Bible for all to see, perhaps, for such a time as this:</p>
<p>38. But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.</p>
<p>39. All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.</p>
<p>40. There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and<br />
the glory of the terrestrial is another.</p>
<p>41. There isis one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon,and another glory of the stars:for one star  differeth from another star in glory.&#8211;I Corinthians 15</p>
<p>The 2000 year old statement of truth remains unchallenged and reveals the great wisdom of the writer, surpassing that of obstructionist leagues, even in the assertion that &#8220;one star differeth from another in glory&#8221;; indeed, all stars are not the same as the investigation will bear out.&#8221;</p>
<p>The text was taken from The Quest for Right, a new series of 7 textbooks created for the public schools. The several volumes are based on physical science, the old science of cause and effect. The Quest for Right levels the playing field between those who teach physical science and those who preach evolution. Volume 1 is currently available at <a href="http://tatepublishing.com" rel="nofollow">http://tatepublishing.com</a> Or visit the <a href="http://QuestForRight.com" rel="nofollow">http://QuestForRight.com</a> website for more information.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jan-Maarten</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2007/12/19/whales-from-so-humble-a-beginning/#comment-5848</link>
		<dc:creator>Jan-Maarten</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Dec 2007 13:09:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2007/12/19/whales-from-so-humble-a-beginning/#comment-5848</guid>
		<description>One question related to the illustration: The air bubbles seem to suggest that the creature is breathing out. Wouldn't it be more typical for such creatures to hold their breath untill they surface again?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One question related to the illustration: The air bubbles seem to suggest that the creature is breathing out. Wouldn&#8217;t it be more typical for such creatures to hold their breath untill they surface again?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Fernando Magyar</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2007/12/19/whales-from-so-humble-a-beginning/#comment-5847</link>
		<dc:creator>Fernando Magyar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2007 12:59:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2007/12/19/whales-from-so-humble-a-beginning/#comment-5847</guid>
		<description>Maybe now we can convince the Japanese to hunt, er do scientific research, on Muskrats instead of Humpback whales?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe now we can convince the Japanese to hunt, er do scientific research, on Muskrats instead of Humpback whales?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Stevo Darkly</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2007/12/19/whales-from-so-humble-a-beginning/#comment-5846</link>
		<dc:creator>Stevo Darkly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2007 08:07:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2007/12/19/whales-from-so-humble-a-beginning/#comment-5846</guid>
		<description>FWIW, deer have been known to eat live birds.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FWIW, deer have been known to eat live birds.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
