Comments on: Stockholm Syndrome For Moths

By: Zombies Exist in Nature « Zombie Headlines

Zombies Exist in Nature « Zombie Headlines — Wed, 06 Jun 2012 04:25:33 +0000

[...] another type of wasp uses a species of caterpillar to act as a host for its developing offspring. The fun begins when a [...]

By: john

john — Sat, 22 Aug 2009 01:10:36 +0000

And a note to follow that up: “if IT WERE true” is wrong; English grammar mandates “if IT WAS true”, by “it” being singular and “were” referring to plural: “the singular was true” and”the plurals were true.”

Filthy little parasitic wasps.

Carl: It’s the subjunctive. You can look it up.

By: Fooster

Fooster — Thu, 19 Jun 2008 12:08:39 +0000

Just a little note “And if it were ture” should be “And if it were true.”

By: Carl

Carl — Thu, 19 Jun 2008 09:55:27 +0000

Typos: “W,hat” and “ture”

By: John Boy Toomey

John Boy Toomey — Thu, 19 Jun 2008 05:02:58 +0000

Wow, now that was some fascinating stuff. No doubt about it.
http://www.FireMe.To/udi

By: Ian Calvert

Ian Calvert — Thu, 19 Jun 2008 03:31:57 +0000

Thank you for the thought provoking replies.

Kristoffer: I see, although I don’t really agree with the word “incidental”. A distinction between there being one or two stages would be interesting.

Bob/Paul: I gathered from the summary that this was not healthy behavior, but I think that it may be a distinction between a general behavior when sick and a behavior when sick *in this particular manner*. Very interesting all around

I’ll have to add the paper to my reading list!

By: Larry Fafarman

Larry Fafarman — Wed, 18 Jun 2008 19:03:05 +0000

Well, Carl, you Darwinist roader, what evolutionary pathway do you suggest for this particular case of parasitism? (“Darwinist roader” comes from the old Communist Chinese expression, “capitalist roaders and their running dogs”).

Your problem, Carl, is that you are aware of complex interspecies relationships such as this, yet you are not skeptical of evolution theory. You even wrote a book titled “Evolution: The Triumph of an Idea.”

I wrote on my blog,

Previously my arguments about co-evolution were restricted to the evolution of obligate mutualism (i.e., total co-dependence of two different kinds of organisms) because I thought that only co-evolution of obligate mutualism could require that a mutation in one kind of organism be immediately answered by a corresponding mutation in another kind of organism at the same geographical location in order to produce a benefit or even just for survival. I didn’t see parasitism per se as a problem for evolution because I assumed that mutations involving parasitism do not require an immediate corresponding mutation in the other organism. However, I have just discovered literature about bizarre parasitisms that may require changes in the traits of the host and so also may be a problem for evolution.

My argument about co-evolution was originally stated as follows:

“In the co-evolution of obligate mutualism, unlike in evolutionary adaptation to widespread fixed physical features of the environment, e.g., air, water in its different forms, and land its many forms, there may be nothing to adapt to, and the reason why there may be nothing to adapt to is that the corresponding co-dependent trait in the other organism is likely to be initially absent locally.”

I present “buzz” pollination as a good example of this dilemma of the co-evolution of obligate mutualism.

Anyway, thanks very much, Carl, for bringing this example of parasitism to my attention. I have added it to my group of posts under the post label “Non-ID criticisms of evolution” on my blog.

By: Bob/Paul

Bob/Paul — Wed, 18 Jun 2008 18:58:42 +0000

Ian: Insightful. The question is of a deeper understanding of the mechanisms involved. One wants to know whether this is the natural behavior of the caterpillar that just happens to be beneficial for wasps or something that’s specifically caused be the wasp larva. If its something caused by the wasp larva, then a study of how the wasp is controlling the caterpillar could prove beneficial in other areas.

By: wowmir

wowmir — Wed, 18 Jun 2008 18:54:01 +0000

Has it been observed that the caterpillar’s dead body is being manipulated by the wasps larvae or is it assumed since there are some larvae they must be doing it.

Ps this is not obvious to me am not a bio student.

By: Kristoffer

Kristoffer — Wed, 18 Jun 2008 18:50:39 +0000

Ian Calvert: I interpret that as asking whether the behaviour is directly caused simply by having been infected (the protection of the wasps being incidental), or if the wasps alter the host in some further way to cause the behaviour.