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	<title>Comments on: They Call Me Mister Zimmer</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/08/01/they-call-me-mister-zimmer/</link>
	<description>A blog about life, past and future. Written by DISCOVER contributing editor and columnist Carl Zimmer.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 17:00:18 -0600</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Bob Carroll</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/08/01/they-call-me-mister-zimmer/comment-page-1/#comment-12491</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Carroll</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 03:55:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/08/01/they-call-me-mister-zimmer/#comment-12491</guid>
		<description>We may have reached a high point in the right-wing creationist influence.  The Republican party has lost, big time, by relying on them.  Maybe I&#039;m being overly optomistic, but pragmatic forces in the repubs may take over, and reduce the influence of the religious extremists.  Let&#039;s hope.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We may have reached a high point in the right-wing creationist influence.  The Republican party has lost, big time, by relying on them.  Maybe I&#8217;m being overly optomistic, but pragmatic forces in the repubs may take over, and reduce the influence of the religious extremists.  Let&#8217;s hope.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Haworth</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/08/01/they-call-me-mister-zimmer/comment-page-1/#comment-9747</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Haworth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Oct 2008 08:52:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/08/01/they-call-me-mister-zimmer/#comment-9747</guid>
		<description>One important ingredient in the decline and fall of the USA over the next few decades, which the rest of the world will watch and enjoy with varying degrees of schadenfreude, is the no-brainer creationist loonies busily white-anting and destroying what is probably the USA&#039;s greatest positive achievement--its magnificent scientific research record over the last 200 years. You&#039;d probably have to go to the Islamic world (another dead-set loser zone) to find a bigger concentration of religious numbskulls. 1000 years ago the Moslems also lead the world in science, but the religious faction took over, and it all went down the plughole, just as  &#039;America&#039; will.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One important ingredient in the decline and fall of the USA over the next few decades, which the rest of the world will watch and enjoy with varying degrees of schadenfreude, is the no-brainer creationist loonies busily white-anting and destroying what is probably the USA&#8217;s greatest positive achievement&#8211;its magnificent scientific research record over the last 200 years. You&#8217;d probably have to go to the Islamic world (another dead-set loser zone) to find a bigger concentration of religious numbskulls. 1000 years ago the Moslems also lead the world in science, but the religious faction took over, and it all went down the plughole, just as  &#8216;America&#8217; will.</p>
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		<title>By: EastwoodDC</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/08/01/they-call-me-mister-zimmer/comment-page-1/#comment-8798</link>
		<dc:creator>EastwoodDC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 22:29:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/08/01/they-call-me-mister-zimmer/#comment-8798</guid>
		<description>@ Greg Peterson
At least you applied some critical thinking and changed your mind. In my book this puts you way ahead of some people. Save the regret for those who haven&#039;t done as you have.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Greg Peterson<br />
At least you applied some critical thinking and changed your mind. In my book this puts you way ahead of some people. Save the regret for those who haven&#8217;t done as you have.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Peterson</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/08/01/they-call-me-mister-zimmer/comment-page-1/#comment-8794</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Peterson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 17:54:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/08/01/they-call-me-mister-zimmer/#comment-8794</guid>
		<description>I used to be pathetically naive and had a smidgen of respect for the DI.  I know, I know.  But I just did not believe that people, who I assumed were in some sense well-meaning, would sink to the lowest tactics I could imagine, comparable to the worst politcal advertising.  In fact, the comparison is especially apt given the recent revelation that John McCain (and by using this example, I don&#039;t mean to imply that only Republicans do such things) had two ads ready after Obama went to the Middle East.  The one that aired criticized him for not visiting injured troops.  The un-aired one criticized him for using the troops as a photo op.

Creationists like Luskin do precisely the same thing.  I&#039;ve seen it time after time.  If the bones don&#039;t connect, it&#039;s not a &quot;real wrist.&quot;  If the bones had connected, we&#039;d still be missing the transitional form.  There is no consistent effort to view evidence and interpret it in the most plausible light--which in the case of Tiktaalik is obvious.  There is just a knee-jerk denial of anything than does not fit their set notions.

I hate anything that makes me regret some initial sense of respect I might have had.  I don&#039;t care to see my cynicism fostered.  But Luskin and the DI have the sort of toxins that make me repent of ever having ascribed anything as noble as curiousity or questioning to their motives.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I used to be pathetically naive and had a smidgen of respect for the DI.  I know, I know.  But I just did not believe that people, who I assumed were in some sense well-meaning, would sink to the lowest tactics I could imagine, comparable to the worst politcal advertising.  In fact, the comparison is especially apt given the recent revelation that John McCain (and by using this example, I don&#8217;t mean to imply that only Republicans do such things) had two ads ready after Obama went to the Middle East.  The one that aired criticized him for not visiting injured troops.  The un-aired one criticized him for using the troops as a photo op.</p>
<p>Creationists like Luskin do precisely the same thing.  I&#8217;ve seen it time after time.  If the bones don&#8217;t connect, it&#8217;s not a &#8220;real wrist.&#8221;  If the bones had connected, we&#8217;d still be missing the transitional form.  There is no consistent effort to view evidence and interpret it in the most plausible light&#8211;which in the case of Tiktaalik is obvious.  There is just a knee-jerk denial of anything than does not fit their set notions.</p>
<p>I hate anything that makes me regret some initial sense of respect I might have had.  I don&#8217;t care to see my cynicism fostered.  But Luskin and the DI have the sort of toxins that make me repent of ever having ascribed anything as noble as curiousity or questioning to their motives.</p>
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		<title>By: amphiox</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/08/01/they-call-me-mister-zimmer/comment-page-1/#comment-8792</link>
		<dc:creator>amphiox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 15:32:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/08/01/they-call-me-mister-zimmer/#comment-8792</guid>
		<description>David Bradley: unfortunately, some people believe that you do. Very sad.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David Bradley: unfortunately, some people believe that you do. Very sad.</p>
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		<title>By: David Bradley</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/08/01/they-call-me-mister-zimmer/comment-page-1/#comment-8772</link>
		<dc:creator>David Bradley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 17:36:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/08/01/they-call-me-mister-zimmer/#comment-8772</guid>
		<description>What is it that drives the whole Intelligent Design movement, is just a straightforward fear that there won&#039;t be anywhere for them to go when they die, or is there more to a belief in a god than that? It&#039;s not like atheists cannot have a moral code is it? You don&#039;t need to create (pardon the pun) a whole mythology just to make good life choices and be nice to each other.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What is it that drives the whole Intelligent Design movement, is just a straightforward fear that there won&#8217;t be anywhere for them to go when they die, or is there more to a belief in a god than that? It&#8217;s not like atheists cannot have a moral code is it? You don&#8217;t need to create (pardon the pun) a whole mythology just to make good life choices and be nice to each other.</p>
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		<title>By: No Sock-Puppets, Creationist or Otherwise &#124; The Loom &#124; Discover Magazine</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/08/01/they-call-me-mister-zimmer/comment-page-1/#comment-8753</link>
		<dc:creator>No Sock-Puppets, Creationist or Otherwise &#124; The Loom &#124; Discover Magazine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 04:40:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/08/01/they-call-me-mister-zimmer/#comment-8753</guid>
		<description>[...] response to a post on evolution Friday, the first comment I got a very long announcement about &#8220;A PARAGON OF [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] response to a post on evolution Friday, the first comment I got a very long announcement about &#8220;A PARAGON OF [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Larimore</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/08/01/they-call-me-mister-zimmer/comment-page-1/#comment-8751</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Larimore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 03:58:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/08/01/they-call-me-mister-zimmer/#comment-8751</guid>
		<description>I am somewhat amused by Paul Burnett, self-proclaimed anti-creationist, because he seems to follow David Parsons around on the internet. It is as if he has made it his agenda to cast down The Quest for Right as worthless. I&#039;ll bet he&#039;s never read the book. If he had, he would crawl back into the hole from whence he wonders out at night to do his evil deeds.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am somewhat amused by Paul Burnett, self-proclaimed anti-creationist, because he seems to follow David Parsons around on the internet. It is as if he has made it his agenda to cast down The Quest for Right as worthless. I&#8217;ll bet he&#8217;s never read the book. If he had, he would crawl back into the hole from whence he wonders out at night to do his evil deeds.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Burnett</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/08/01/they-call-me-mister-zimmer/comment-page-1/#comment-8730</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Burnett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Aug 2008 03:56:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/08/01/they-call-me-mister-zimmer/#comment-8730</guid>
		<description>Clarence David Parsons is his own worst enemy, with a writing style describing his vanity-press pseudoscience books that is hard to distinguish from parody or monumental incompetence (take your choice).  You&#039;ve got to feel sorry for the guy, though - self-delusions of grandeur, carefully reinforced by a vanity publisher who will probably take the poor sap for all he&#039;s got.  Sad, really.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clarence David Parsons is his own worst enemy, with a writing style describing his vanity-press pseudoscience books that is hard to distinguish from parody or monumental incompetence (take your choice).  You&#8217;ve got to feel sorry for the guy, though &#8211; self-delusions of grandeur, carefully reinforced by a vanity publisher who will probably take the poor sap for all he&#8217;s got.  Sad, really.</p>
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		<title>By: Tucker</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/08/01/they-call-me-mister-zimmer/comment-page-1/#comment-8720</link>
		<dc:creator>Tucker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Aug 2008 07:18:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/08/01/they-call-me-mister-zimmer/#comment-8720</guid>
		<description>Duncan Townsend Says: 
&quot;The last paragraph is simply a promotion for Mr. Parsons’ website/book compounded with emotionally-charged Weasel Word (which unfortunately isn’t a fallacy on the above site, but should be).&quot;

Affective language is a tool of argument (Pathos), but his entire post could be summed up neatly with &#039;Argumentum ad Verecundiam&#039; (Appeal to Unqualified Authority), which is especially funny given that he&#039;s appealing to himself. 

If you google the user name though, you find that it&#039;s probably a bot (or an author with far too much time on his hands) because there are posts such as this one all over the internet. Dude&#039;s spammin&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Duncan Townsend Says:<br />
&#8220;The last paragraph is simply a promotion for Mr. Parsons’ website/book compounded with emotionally-charged Weasel Word (which unfortunately isn’t a fallacy on the above site, but should be).&#8221;</p>
<p>Affective language is a tool of argument (Pathos), but his entire post could be summed up neatly with &#8216;Argumentum ad Verecundiam&#8217; (Appeal to Unqualified Authority), which is especially funny given that he&#8217;s appealing to himself. </p>
<p>If you google the user name though, you find that it&#8217;s probably a bot (or an author with far too much time on his hands) because there are posts such as this one all over the internet. Dude&#8217;s spammin&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: Vince</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/08/01/they-call-me-mister-zimmer/comment-page-1/#comment-8715</link>
		<dc:creator>Vince</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Aug 2008 01:37:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/08/01/they-call-me-mister-zimmer/#comment-8715</guid>
		<description>Parsons - God did it. A very testable hypothesis indeed. 

Well done answering the wackos, Mr. Zimmer. This retired science teacher (old bio major) wishes he paid more attention in writing class. I always enjoy reading your blog. By the way, I recommend Shubin&#039;s book to all the young science teachers I know.

Mr. S.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Parsons &#8211; God did it. A very testable hypothesis indeed. </p>
<p>Well done answering the wackos, Mr. Zimmer. This retired science teacher (old bio major) wishes he paid more attention in writing class. I always enjoy reading your blog. By the way, I recommend Shubin&#8217;s book to all the young science teachers I know.</p>
<p>Mr. S.</p>
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		<title>By: Duncan Townsend</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/08/01/they-call-me-mister-zimmer/comment-page-1/#comment-8713</link>
		<dc:creator>Duncan Townsend</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Aug 2008 01:08:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/08/01/they-call-me-mister-zimmer/#comment-8713</guid>
		<description>I will be referring to this site throughout this post:
http://daltonator.net/durandal/creationism/fallacies.shtml

C. David Parsons makes several key logical fallacies in his post:

He begins with an appeal to authority
&quot;God has withheld the very wisdom&quot;
God says that this is wrong, therefore it is wrong.

His second paragraph is simply an Ad Hominem attack.
Darwin may have been an unsavory person in C. David Parsons or even your eyes, but that does not mean that the tenants of his theory are incorrect. 

In an unrelated note some of Darwin&#039;s assumptions in his original treatise are incorrect, but the fundamental idea of natural selection and descendence with modification are sound. Thus you can say Darwinism is incorrect, fine, but the modern developed idea of evolution is an entirely different thing.

C. David Parsons second paragraph is an appeal to the Achilles&#039; Heel.
If one part of scientific knowledge is incorrect, then the whole must be incorrect. It is interesting to point out that not only is Mr. Parsons concept of the model of the atom outdated and incorrect, there is no relation between the quantum mechanics and evolution. This also constitutes a Red Herring fallacy.

To put Mr. Parsons straight on the model of the atom I suggest that you look at the quantum mechanical model of the atom. Spend some time reviewing these sites:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron_configuration
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/quantum/atomstructcon.html#c1

I&#039;d also like to point out that one of the reasons that these electrons don&#039;t collide is called electric charge. This is the same force that makes your hair stand up during an electric storm. At the very small distances in an atom, the repulsive forces between electrons will keep them from colliding, in addition to the above quantum mechanics.

The fifth paragraph is more of the same: Red Herrings and Achilles&#039; Heels. These are completely unrelated theories and phenomenons (sp?).

The last paragraph is simply a promotion for Mr. Parsons&#039; website/book compounded with emotionally-charged Weasel Word (which unfortunately isn&#039;t a fallacy on the above site, but should be).

Good night,
Duncan Townsend</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I will be referring to this site throughout this post:<br />
<a href="http://daltonator.net/durandal/creationism/fallacies.shtml" rel="nofollow">http://daltonator.net/durandal/creationism/fallacies.shtml</a></p>
<p>C. David Parsons makes several key logical fallacies in his post:</p>
<p>He begins with an appeal to authority<br />
&#8220;God has withheld the very wisdom&#8221;<br />
God says that this is wrong, therefore it is wrong.</p>
<p>His second paragraph is simply an Ad Hominem attack.<br />
Darwin may have been an unsavory person in C. David Parsons or even your eyes, but that does not mean that the tenants of his theory are incorrect. </p>
<p>In an unrelated note some of Darwin&#8217;s assumptions in his original treatise are incorrect, but the fundamental idea of natural selection and descendence with modification are sound. Thus you can say Darwinism is incorrect, fine, but the modern developed idea of evolution is an entirely different thing.</p>
<p>C. David Parsons second paragraph is an appeal to the Achilles&#8217; Heel.<br />
If one part of scientific knowledge is incorrect, then the whole must be incorrect. It is interesting to point out that not only is Mr. Parsons concept of the model of the atom outdated and incorrect, there is no relation between the quantum mechanics and evolution. This also constitutes a Red Herring fallacy.</p>
<p>To put Mr. Parsons straight on the model of the atom I suggest that you look at the quantum mechanical model of the atom. Spend some time reviewing these sites:<br />
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron_configuration" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron_configuration</a><br />
<a href="http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/quantum/atomstructcon.html#c1" rel="nofollow">http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/quantum/atomstructcon.html#c1</a></p>
<p>I&#8217;d also like to point out that one of the reasons that these electrons don&#8217;t collide is called electric charge. This is the same force that makes your hair stand up during an electric storm. At the very small distances in an atom, the repulsive forces between electrons will keep them from colliding, in addition to the above quantum mechanics.</p>
<p>The fifth paragraph is more of the same: Red Herrings and Achilles&#8217; Heels. These are completely unrelated theories and phenomenons (sp?).</p>
<p>The last paragraph is simply a promotion for Mr. Parsons&#8217; website/book compounded with emotionally-charged Weasel Word (which unfortunately isn&#8217;t a fallacy on the above site, but should be).</p>
<p>Good night,<br />
Duncan Townsend</p>
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