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	<title>Comments on: The Allure of Big Antlers</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/03/the-allure-of-big-antlers/</link>
	<description>A blog about life, past and future. Written by DISCOVER contributing editor and columnist Carl Zimmer.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 13 Feb 2012 19:00:24 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Bob McGavock</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/03/the-allure-of-big-antlers/comment-page-1/#comment-30439</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob McGavock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Apr 2010 03:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/03/the-allure-of-big-antlers/#comment-30439</guid>
		<description>Responding to Rhonda who submitted a query on Apr 22nd &#039;09: &quot;Amazing! ...I am interested in having a replica set of Irish Elk Antlers created. Do you know if this would be a possibility? Or better yet, can you tell me if sets of Irish Elk Antlers are ever available to purchase? Thank you! &quot;

I recently wood-crafted a replica set of &quot;Irish Elk&quot; antlers, complete with head, for a buyer in TN.  This particular speciman had a 12&#039; rack. I designed it so the two antlers and head (including teeth) could be transported and assembled on site.  Prices range from $4000. - $7000., depending on width. (delivery and placement may be arranged)
Please contact Bob McGavock at Horsin&#039; Around Carousel Carving School ,(423) 332-1111 or cell (423) 667-2960 in Chattanooga,Tn.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Responding to Rhonda who submitted a query on Apr 22nd &#8217;09: &#8220;Amazing! &#8230;I am interested in having a replica set of Irish Elk Antlers created. Do you know if this would be a possibility? Or better yet, can you tell me if sets of Irish Elk Antlers are ever available to purchase? Thank you! &#8221;</p>
<p>I recently wood-crafted a replica set of &#8220;Irish Elk&#8221; antlers, complete with head, for a buyer in TN.  This particular speciman had a 12&#8242; rack. I designed it so the two antlers and head (including teeth) could be transported and assembled on site.  Prices range from $4000. &#8211; $7000., depending on width. (delivery and placement may be arranged)<br />
Please contact Bob McGavock at Horsin&#8217; Around Carousel Carving School ,(423) 332-1111 or cell (423) 667-2960 in Chattanooga,Tn.</p>
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		<title>By: PLENG</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/03/the-allure-of-big-antlers/comment-page-1/#comment-26131</link>
		<dc:creator>PLENG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Sep 2009 14:36:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/03/the-allure-of-big-antlers/#comment-26131</guid>
		<description>great but if you can found out about cave bear and/ short faced bear
great job 
thank you for the comment</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>great but if you can found out about cave bear and/ short faced bear<br />
great job<br />
thank you for the comment</p>
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		<title>By: Rhonda</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/03/the-allure-of-big-antlers/comment-page-1/#comment-17327</link>
		<dc:creator>Rhonda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Apr 2009 21:59:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/03/the-allure-of-big-antlers/#comment-17327</guid>
		<description>Amazing! I am interested in having a replica set of Irish Elk Antlers created. Do you know if this would be a possibility? 
Or better yet, can you tell me if sets of Irish Elk Antlers are ever available to purchase? Thank you!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amazing! I am interested in having a replica set of Irish Elk Antlers created. Do you know if this would be a possibility?<br />
Or better yet, can you tell me if sets of Irish Elk Antlers are ever available to purchase? Thank you!</p>
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		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/03/the-allure-of-big-antlers/comment-page-1/#comment-9793</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 05:51:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/03/the-allure-of-big-antlers/#comment-9793</guid>
		<description>Great article on a beloved creature!  I remember seeing the familiar Megaloceras skull at every museum in Europe while I was traveling around.

I found your blog through the latest edition of the Boneyard blog carnival.  Keep up the great work!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great article on a beloved creature!  I remember seeing the familiar Megaloceras skull at every museum in Europe while I was traveling around.</p>
<p>I found your blog through the latest edition of the Boneyard blog carnival.  Keep up the great work!</p>
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		<title>By: Hai~Ren</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/03/the-allure-of-big-antlers/comment-page-1/#comment-9785</link>
		<dc:creator>Hai~Ren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 13:28:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/03/the-allure-of-big-antlers/#comment-9785</guid>
		<description>Interesting perspective. I thought dire wolves were exclusively American, while Megaloceros was European?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting perspective. I thought dire wolves were exclusively American, while Megaloceros was European?</p>
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		<title>By: Monkey</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/03/the-allure-of-big-antlers/comment-page-1/#comment-9411</link>
		<dc:creator>Monkey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 05:07:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/03/the-allure-of-big-antlers/#comment-9411</guid>
		<description>Carl, do you mean that antlers &quot;shrink&quot; or over generations they reduce in size/weight? Confused on that issue, because: 

1) IF they shrink/grow on a single individual over the course of a season, is that not a reflection of health and not a genetic trait that could be beneficial? Like my bones getting stronger and weaker base don my general health? 

2) If the generational diferences are what is meant, that makes sense. 

3) A stag with good food resources will grow larger antlers than one with poor resources. Is this what you meant? 

Sorry, simple issue her about simple biology but one that has my mind in a knot while trying to digest this. The rest made perfect sense, its just that little itty bit. 

Good stuff, though. I found your site a few weeks back via the mighty world of links, and havent left yet. Stuff like this makes my brain happy!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Carl, do you mean that antlers &#8220;shrink&#8221; or over generations they reduce in size/weight? Confused on that issue, because: </p>
<p>1) IF they shrink/grow on a single individual over the course of a season, is that not a reflection of health and not a genetic trait that could be beneficial? Like my bones getting stronger and weaker base don my general health? </p>
<p>2) If the generational diferences are what is meant, that makes sense. </p>
<p>3) A stag with good food resources will grow larger antlers than one with poor resources. Is this what you meant? </p>
<p>Sorry, simple issue her about simple biology but one that has my mind in a knot while trying to digest this. The rest made perfect sense, its just that little itty bit. </p>
<p>Good stuff, though. I found your site a few weeks back via the mighty world of links, and havent left yet. Stuff like this makes my brain happy!</p>
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		<title>By: JAMESM</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/03/the-allure-of-big-antlers/comment-page-1/#comment-9393</link>
		<dc:creator>JAMESM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Sep 2008 21:12:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/03/the-allure-of-big-antlers/#comment-9393</guid>
		<description>&quot;The females were stuck, trying to produce big offspring with less food...&quot;

Exactly.

For females assessing the desirability of a mate, the size of the antlers is an ideal measure of the male because growing antlers is a direct proxy for growing a fetus. 

Antlers grow from nothing to an enormous size in a short interval during the breeding season, just as the fetus does, and they are made of the same materials as the bones of the fetus. A male with enormous antlers is therefore more likely to be able to sire cows which can gestate big calves with big strong bones than a lesser-antlered male.

 If it&#039;s true that Irish elk had to be long-legged and fast to outrun predators, then their most vulnerable stage of life, as calves, must have had to have had really spectacularly long and strong legs. That in turn means that during the limited time in the period of gestation when the legs are growing, there must have been tremendous demands on the mother to be able to produce the minerals and other nutrients the calf needed for those exceptional legs, and the female calves sired by males with the biggest antlers could be expected to have the greatest success meeting such demands when their own time came.


I sometimes think evolutionary biologists do not spend enough time looking for specific adaptive functions for the exaggerated male phenotypes produced by sexual selection by imagining what the characteristic selected for (huge antlers in this case)  would mean when translated-- mutatis mutandis-- into the characteristics of his female offspring (ability to gestate big fast calves, in this case).

From this point of view however, I am forced to disagree that &quot;their disappearance had little to do with their antlers.&quot; I would say that the enormity of the antlers is a signal to us, just as it was to the female elk, of runaway selection pressure that the Irish elk could finally not keep up with.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The females were stuck, trying to produce big offspring with less food&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>Exactly.</p>
<p>For females assessing the desirability of a mate, the size of the antlers is an ideal measure of the male because growing antlers is a direct proxy for growing a fetus. </p>
<p>Antlers grow from nothing to an enormous size in a short interval during the breeding season, just as the fetus does, and they are made of the same materials as the bones of the fetus. A male with enormous antlers is therefore more likely to be able to sire cows which can gestate big calves with big strong bones than a lesser-antlered male.</p>
<p> If it&#8217;s true that Irish elk had to be long-legged and fast to outrun predators, then their most vulnerable stage of life, as calves, must have had to have had really spectacularly long and strong legs. That in turn means that during the limited time in the period of gestation when the legs are growing, there must have been tremendous demands on the mother to be able to produce the minerals and other nutrients the calf needed for those exceptional legs, and the female calves sired by males with the biggest antlers could be expected to have the greatest success meeting such demands when their own time came.</p>
<p>I sometimes think evolutionary biologists do not spend enough time looking for specific adaptive functions for the exaggerated male phenotypes produced by sexual selection by imagining what the characteristic selected for (huge antlers in this case)  would mean when translated&#8211; mutatis mutandis&#8211; into the characteristics of his female offspring (ability to gestate big fast calves, in this case).</p>
<p>From this point of view however, I am forced to disagree that &#8220;their disappearance had little to do with their antlers.&#8221; I would say that the enormity of the antlers is a signal to us, just as it was to the female elk, of runaway selection pressure that the Irish elk could finally not keep up with.</p>
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		<title>By: MartinC</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/03/the-allure-of-big-antlers/comment-page-1/#comment-9389</link>
		<dc:creator>MartinC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Sep 2008 07:16:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/03/the-allure-of-big-antlers/#comment-9389</guid>
		<description>Nice piece Carl. I grew up in Ireland and was always impressed, as a child, with the collections of Irish Elk in the various local museums and the various stories that were told about them. 
It was only much later that I became interested in the science behind it and realized that a lot of the things taught in school couldn&#039;t be true.
I think the natural history of Ireland over the past 15 thousand years illustrates an important point that I haven&#039;t really seen discussed before in a simple, easy to understand manner, and which has important resonances with today&#039;s climate changing environment.
One truly startling thing for me to realize was that the actual geographic location where these Elks, and many other &#039;Irish&#039; organisms lived at the height of the last ice age, 15,000 years ago, only partially overlapped the land of the current island of Ireland. Have a look at the maps on the page linked below and you&#039;ll get an idea of the effect that temperature change had on the map of Europe. Perhaps there were huge herds of Elks roaming the lost plain between Ireland and Brittany and the museum skeletons are simply those of the last stragglers that escaped the rising tides. 
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlkik/ihm/ancient.htm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice piece Carl. I grew up in Ireland and was always impressed, as a child, with the collections of Irish Elk in the various local museums and the various stories that were told about them.<br />
It was only much later that I became interested in the science behind it and realized that a lot of the things taught in school couldn&#8217;t be true.<br />
I think the natural history of Ireland over the past 15 thousand years illustrates an important point that I haven&#8217;t really seen discussed before in a simple, easy to understand manner, and which has important resonances with today&#8217;s climate changing environment.<br />
One truly startling thing for me to realize was that the actual geographic location where these Elks, and many other &#8216;Irish&#8217; organisms lived at the height of the last ice age, 15,000 years ago, only partially overlapped the land of the current island of Ireland. Have a look at the maps on the page linked below and you&#8217;ll get an idea of the effect that temperature change had on the map of Europe. Perhaps there were huge herds of Elks roaming the lost plain between Ireland and Brittany and the museum skeletons are simply those of the last stragglers that escaped the rising tides.<br />
<a href="http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlkik/ihm/ancient.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlkik/ihm/ancient.htm</a></p>
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