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	<title>Comments on: Cancer&#8217;s Sex Appeal</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/10/cancers-sex-appeal/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/10/cancers-sex-appeal/</link>
	<description>A blog about life, past and future. Written by DISCOVER contributing editor and columnist Carl Zimmer.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 13 Feb 2012 19:00:24 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: John Earl</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/10/cancers-sex-appeal/comment-page-1/#comment-9736</link>
		<dc:creator>John Earl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2008 00:13:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/10/cancers-sex-appeal/#comment-9736</guid>
		<description>In response to what is considered attractive and whether it matters---
Why do women prefer tall men and  men prefer beautiful women? Why do so many look at looks rather than brains? Seems like it catches their eye (much like a black spot or beautiful tail feathers). If one looks at the plight of the dark melanin spotted male and compare it with dragging along a ludicrously large tail  along with the plague called humanity, one can guess that some selection is not driven by survival. The chemistry of the brain can trigger some strange bedfellows. 

Killingtonskier</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In response to what is considered attractive and whether it matters&#8212;<br />
Why do women prefer tall men and  men prefer beautiful women? Why do so many look at looks rather than brains? Seems like it catches their eye (much like a black spot or beautiful tail feathers). If one looks at the plight of the dark melanin spotted male and compare it with dragging along a ludicrously large tail  along with the plague called humanity, one can guess that some selection is not driven by survival. The chemistry of the brain can trigger some strange bedfellows. </p>
<p>Killingtonskier</p>
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		<title>By: Rich</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/10/cancers-sex-appeal/comment-page-1/#comment-9602</link>
		<dc:creator>Rich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 18:14:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/10/cancers-sex-appeal/#comment-9602</guid>
		<description>James, I doubt that the dark spots on the males are going to protect any young in the females.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James, I doubt that the dark spots on the males are going to protect any young in the females.</p>
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		<title>By: JAMESM</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/10/cancers-sex-appeal/comment-page-1/#comment-9590</link>
		<dc:creator>JAMESM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Sep 2008 00:19:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/10/cancers-sex-appeal/#comment-9590</guid>
		<description>&quot;So Fernandez and Morris wondered what the delicate swordtail females thought of the Xmrk spots on males.

Turns out, they like them a lot. When offered a chance to pay a visit to one of two male fish, female delicate swordtails from two populations in Mexico spent more time with spotted males than spotless ones. And they also preferred to consort with males with big spots over males with little ones.

The Xmrk gene definitely imposes an evolutionary cost on fish. But that cost may be erased by the benefit it gives male fish through sexual selection. By the time a male delicate swordtail dies from an Xmrk tumor, he may have mated with a number of females, which will pass down the gene to their young.&quot;

Allow me to hazard a wild guess as to a possible significant benefit  female offspring of a male with  large dark spots might receive.

These fish apparently bear their young alive after the female gestates them for 28 days in her oviducts. The dark spots in question look to be situated so as to be likely to cover the area of the oviducts. The Delicate Swordtail is an inhabitant of  fast flowing mountain streams in Mexico, and as such would be exposed to a significant amount of UV radiation. It is so tiny (~2in.) that UV could be expected to be able to penetrate to the growing embryos and potentially harm them-- unless they just so happened to be protected by something such as a big dark blot of melanin (which functions in many animal species as a protectant against  UV). 

If this is the case, it is not classical sexual selection, in which the traits selected for are a severe disadvantage to the male, who shows his superior quality and desirability by being able to bear up under them.

 In fact, as I mentioned in a previous comment, true sexual selection may be rarer than is commonly supposed. In the case of the peacock for example, I&#039;ve noticed that the spread feathers of the fully extended tail tend to bend forward toward their tips enough, in my opinion, to form a radar dish-like structure which could focus sound right at the ear of the cock, and which would thereby make it much more difficult for any predator (or rival cock) to sneak up on the bird through cover. The eyespots on the feathers might function to  enhance the effectiveness of such a system by provoking involuntary startle responses from hidden predators, especially in combination with the peacock&#039;s harsh cry-- which could be directed in a beam by the feather dish too, of course. Moreover, I have seen videos in which peacocks seem to be panning around in a steady circle with their feathers fully extended as if they were scanning just as a radar dish would, or as owls do, for that matter.

And peacocks were, as I recall, used as watchbeasts by Persian nobility.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;So Fernandez and Morris wondered what the delicate swordtail females thought of the Xmrk spots on males.</p>
<p>Turns out, they like them a lot. When offered a chance to pay a visit to one of two male fish, female delicate swordtails from two populations in Mexico spent more time with spotted males than spotless ones. And they also preferred to consort with males with big spots over males with little ones.</p>
<p>The Xmrk gene definitely imposes an evolutionary cost on fish. But that cost may be erased by the benefit it gives male fish through sexual selection. By the time a male delicate swordtail dies from an Xmrk tumor, he may have mated with a number of females, which will pass down the gene to their young.&#8221;</p>
<p>Allow me to hazard a wild guess as to a possible significant benefit  female offspring of a male with  large dark spots might receive.</p>
<p>These fish apparently bear their young alive after the female gestates them for 28 days in her oviducts. The dark spots in question look to be situated so as to be likely to cover the area of the oviducts. The Delicate Swordtail is an inhabitant of  fast flowing mountain streams in Mexico, and as such would be exposed to a significant amount of UV radiation. It is so tiny (~2in.) that UV could be expected to be able to penetrate to the growing embryos and potentially harm them&#8211; unless they just so happened to be protected by something such as a big dark blot of melanin (which functions in many animal species as a protectant against  UV). </p>
<p>If this is the case, it is not classical sexual selection, in which the traits selected for are a severe disadvantage to the male, who shows his superior quality and desirability by being able to bear up under them.</p>
<p> In fact, as I mentioned in a previous comment, true sexual selection may be rarer than is commonly supposed. In the case of the peacock for example, I&#8217;ve noticed that the spread feathers of the fully extended tail tend to bend forward toward their tips enough, in my opinion, to form a radar dish-like structure which could focus sound right at the ear of the cock, and which would thereby make it much more difficult for any predator (or rival cock) to sneak up on the bird through cover. The eyespots on the feathers might function to  enhance the effectiveness of such a system by provoking involuntary startle responses from hidden predators, especially in combination with the peacock&#8217;s harsh cry&#8211; which could be directed in a beam by the feather dish too, of course. Moreover, I have seen videos in which peacocks seem to be panning around in a steady circle with their feathers fully extended as if they were scanning just as a radar dish would, or as owls do, for that matter.</p>
<p>And peacocks were, as I recall, used as watchbeasts by Persian nobility.</p>
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		<title>By: Evolution in action &#171; voice from the pack</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/10/cancers-sex-appeal/comment-page-1/#comment-9577</link>
		<dc:creator>Evolution in action &#171; voice from the pack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Sep 2008 05:08:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/10/cancers-sex-appeal/#comment-9577</guid>
		<description>[...] for sick guys. The fact that these guys have a built in characteristic that leads to an early death is immaterial. It&#8217;s all down to selection and possibly one of those pathways that goes no [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] for sick guys. The fact that these guys have a built in characteristic that leads to an early death is immaterial. It&#8217;s all down to selection and possibly one of those pathways that goes no [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/10/cancers-sex-appeal/comment-page-1/#comment-9572</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2008 08:15:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/10/cancers-sex-appeal/#comment-9572</guid>
		<description>So what then is driving the females to select mates with spotted tails?  For something like peacock feathers or fiddler crabs, females  are attracted to a physical trait because it is representative of the males fitness.  A peacock male can&#039;t maintain a nice beautiful tail if he can&#039;t feed and clean himself well enough to stay alive and waste energy on a tail, same with the crabs.  How does this spot on the fish indicate fitness?  Maybe its easier for predator to see, so a fish that has a big target and is still alive must be fit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So what then is driving the females to select mates with spotted tails?  For something like peacock feathers or fiddler crabs, females  are attracted to a physical trait because it is representative of the males fitness.  A peacock male can&#8217;t maintain a nice beautiful tail if he can&#8217;t feed and clean himself well enough to stay alive and waste energy on a tail, same with the crabs.  How does this spot on the fish indicate fitness?  Maybe its easier for predator to see, so a fish that has a big target and is still alive must be fit.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Sexy Cancer in Fish &#171; Tiny Frog</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/10/cancers-sex-appeal/comment-page-1/#comment-9571</link>
		<dc:creator>Sexy Cancer in Fish &#171; Tiny Frog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2008 07:36:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/10/cancers-sex-appeal/#comment-9571</guid>
		<description>[...] is somewhat correlated with &#8220;objective&#8221; physical improvement, but not always. The Loom has an interesting article about a species of fish where cancer is widespread. This cancer kills the fish before they live [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] is somewhat correlated with &#8220;objective&#8221; physical improvement, but not always. The Loom has an interesting article about a species of fish where cancer is widespread. This cancer kills the fish before they live [...]</p>
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