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	<title>Comments on: Genes and Intelligence: My Anti-Story</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/19/genes-and-intelligence-my-anti-story/</link>
	<description>A blog about life, past and future. Written by DISCOVER contributing editor and columnist Carl Zimmer.</description>
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		<title>By: Troy Stark</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/19/genes-and-intelligence-my-anti-story/comment-page-1/#comment-12891</link>
		<dc:creator>Troy Stark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Dec 2008 23:13:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/19/genes-and-intelligence-my-anti-story/#comment-12891</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m absolutely amazed at how many people still argue that intelligence is not a valid description of human behavior. Anyone with more than a dozen acquaintances can tell you which of them are the more intelligent. On first meeting someone, most of us quickly evaluate their intelligence, so I&#039;d be very surprised if intelligence is not something that can be objectively measured, with at least as much accuracy and meaning as how good looking someone is.  (OK, I actually think IQ can be evaluated a bit more objectively.)

It has been my experience that neither social background nor education has any real impact on intelligence. One&#039;s occupation does not seem to predict their intelligence either, though performance in any occupation does. Of course, how long a particular occupation will retain someone of high IQ definitely depends on how interesting that person finds the work and that is quite unpredictable. And, some occupations will be quite limiting for someone without a high enough IQ to perform. For example, you don&#039;t find many theoretical physicists with an IQ below 120 though they do come in a wide range of social skill.

Since education, social class and most other environmental factors seem not to have any real effect on IQ, an assertion based only on personal experience, it seems quite reasonable to look for genetic markers. And, since no race is excluded from producing brilliant people those genetic markers must be more basic to humans than are the markers for race. I think the search for such genes is well worth the effort. Note however, that being born with particular traits cannot be blamed entirely on genes. It seems that a great deal of what we are born with is a matter of chance. I&#039;m not even implying environment during development, but rather just chance. I suspect you are born with a particular IQ or g for the same reasons you are born with particular fingerprints. 

If I&#039;m right, then a more important question is how to educate people so that we, and they, get the most from what they are born with.  I think &quot;no child left behind&quot; should be replaced with &quot;no child&#039;s potential left underdeveloped&quot;.

-Troy Stark</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m absolutely amazed at how many people still argue that intelligence is not a valid description of human behavior. Anyone with more than a dozen acquaintances can tell you which of them are the more intelligent. On first meeting someone, most of us quickly evaluate their intelligence, so I&#8217;d be very surprised if intelligence is not something that can be objectively measured, with at least as much accuracy and meaning as how good looking someone is.  (OK, I actually think IQ can be evaluated a bit more objectively.)</p>
<p>It has been my experience that neither social background nor education has any real impact on intelligence. One&#8217;s occupation does not seem to predict their intelligence either, though performance in any occupation does. Of course, how long a particular occupation will retain someone of high IQ definitely depends on how interesting that person finds the work and that is quite unpredictable. And, some occupations will be quite limiting for someone without a high enough IQ to perform. For example, you don&#8217;t find many theoretical physicists with an IQ below 120 though they do come in a wide range of social skill.</p>
<p>Since education, social class and most other environmental factors seem not to have any real effect on IQ, an assertion based only on personal experience, it seems quite reasonable to look for genetic markers. And, since no race is excluded from producing brilliant people those genetic markers must be more basic to humans than are the markers for race. I think the search for such genes is well worth the effort. Note however, that being born with particular traits cannot be blamed entirely on genes. It seems that a great deal of what we are born with is a matter of chance. I&#8217;m not even implying environment during development, but rather just chance. I suspect you are born with a particular IQ or g for the same reasons you are born with particular fingerprints. </p>
<p>If I&#8217;m right, then a more important question is how to educate people so that we, and they, get the most from what they are born with.  I think &#8220;no child left behind&#8221; should be replaced with &#8220;no child&#8217;s potential left underdeveloped&#8221;.</p>
<p>-Troy Stark</p>
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		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/19/genes-and-intelligence-my-anti-story/comment-page-1/#comment-9729</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Oct 2008 01:23:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/19/genes-and-intelligence-my-anti-story/#comment-9729</guid>
		<description>Hi Carl. The two articles you provide do not actually establish your point.

One is a study of SNPs with no proven chemical effect on anything, and thus no meaningful conclusion can be drawn from them. For all we know, they are intron polymorphisms (the paper fails to specify!), in which case it&#039;s absurd to link them to anything behavioral.

The other is a meta-analysis, enough said. If I had a dollar for every time some statistical hand-waving allowed a meta-analysis to reach an opposite conclusion from every other study on the same topic, I&#039;d be wealthy enough to pay poor kids to write this comment for me. From the perspective of scholarship, they are not worth much. Double so in the case of biology or medicine.

Also both articles beg the question they seek to discover, namely whether &quot;intelligence&quot; is a meaningful description of human behavior. In general, studies on this topic consistently fail to eliminate sufficient variables from environment to make a meaningful conclusion about a genetic basis for variations in intelligence, not including obvious cases of mental retardation or Down syndrome or something like that. The &quot;in otherwise healthy adults&quot; category still supports a null hypothesis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Carl. The two articles you provide do not actually establish your point.</p>
<p>One is a study of SNPs with no proven chemical effect on anything, and thus no meaningful conclusion can be drawn from them. For all we know, they are intron polymorphisms (the paper fails to specify!), in which case it&#8217;s absurd to link them to anything behavioral.</p>
<p>The other is a meta-analysis, enough said. If I had a dollar for every time some statistical hand-waving allowed a meta-analysis to reach an opposite conclusion from every other study on the same topic, I&#8217;d be wealthy enough to pay poor kids to write this comment for me. From the perspective of scholarship, they are not worth much. Double so in the case of biology or medicine.</p>
<p>Also both articles beg the question they seek to discover, namely whether &#8220;intelligence&#8221; is a meaningful description of human behavior. In general, studies on this topic consistently fail to eliminate sufficient variables from environment to make a meaningful conclusion about a genetic basis for variations in intelligence, not including obvious cases of mental retardation or Down syndrome or something like that. The &#8220;in otherwise healthy adults&#8221; category still supports a null hypothesis.</p>
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		<title>By: harpe éolienne</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/19/genes-and-intelligence-my-anti-story/comment-page-1/#comment-9724</link>
		<dc:creator>harpe éolienne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 17:13:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/19/genes-and-intelligence-my-anti-story/#comment-9724</guid>
		<description>[i]For example, just a handful of genes show much sign of influencing intelligence, and yet each one accounts at best for a fraction of one percent of the variation in test scores.[/i]

i think the question is how we could objectively average variables without even controlling them par avance, as seems to be the case with &#039;intelligence&#039;.
could there be such a thing as global intelligence which can be measured by IQ, i highly doubt it.

even if IQ marks were 100% accurate, how could we possibly differentiate genetic factors from environment ones which affect different parts of IQ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[i]For example, just a handful of genes show much sign of influencing intelligence, and yet each one accounts at best for a fraction of one percent of the variation in test scores.[/i]</p>
<p>i think the question is how we could objectively average variables without even controlling them par avance, as seems to be the case with &#8216;intelligence&#8217;.<br />
could there be such a thing as global intelligence which can be measured by IQ, i highly doubt it.</p>
<p>even if IQ marks were 100% accurate, how could we possibly differentiate genetic factors from environment ones which affect different parts of IQ?</p>
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		<title>By: Roy D. Schickedanz</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/19/genes-and-intelligence-my-anti-story/comment-page-1/#comment-9717</link>
		<dc:creator>Roy D. Schickedanz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 17:35:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/19/genes-and-intelligence-my-anti-story/#comment-9717</guid>
		<description>Carl Zimmer is not my favor science writer, being quite overrated. Too often Carl Zimmer distorts facts for a particular premise he seeks to pursue. Here, science and truth get quite distorted.

Intelligence and genes is certainly a case in point.

First, Carl Zimmer never answers the question why the brain in the first place.  

All organic life is cognitive because it is a Responsive Design.  Carl Zimmer is still on the shore where Evolution is guided by Darwinian conception through Natural Selection, saying nothing!

Roy D. Schickedanz
Refuting Charles Darwin in the case of Life’s Responsive Design</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Carl Zimmer is not my favor science writer, being quite overrated. Too often Carl Zimmer distorts facts for a particular premise he seeks to pursue. Here, science and truth get quite distorted.</p>
<p>Intelligence and genes is certainly a case in point.</p>
<p>First, Carl Zimmer never answers the question why the brain in the first place.  </p>
<p>All organic life is cognitive because it is a Responsive Design.  Carl Zimmer is still on the shore where Evolution is guided by Darwinian conception through Natural Selection, saying nothing!</p>
<p>Roy D. Schickedanz<br />
Refuting Charles Darwin in the case of Life’s Responsive Design</p>
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		<title>By: Intelligence on the Air at Noon &#124; The Loom &#124; Discover Magazine</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/19/genes-and-intelligence-my-anti-story/comment-page-1/#comment-9716</link>
		<dc:creator>Intelligence on the Air at Noon &#124; The Loom &#124; Discover Magazine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 14:34:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/19/genes-and-intelligence-my-anti-story/#comment-9716</guid>
		<description>[...] of Mouth&#8221; on New Hampshire Public Radio at noon EST. The topic will be my new article on the biology of intelligence in Scientific American. Listen [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of Mouth&#8221; on New Hampshire Public Radio at noon EST. The topic will be my new article on the biology of intelligence in Scientific American. Listen [...]</p>
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		<title>By: DrGaryG</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/19/genes-and-intelligence-my-anti-story/comment-page-1/#comment-9706</link>
		<dc:creator>DrGaryG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 20:43:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/19/genes-and-intelligence-my-anti-story/#comment-9706</guid>
		<description>So. mice can be intelligent?  Very interesting. Here&#039;s an article arguing that there is really no such &quot;thing&quot; as inteliigence.http://www.questia.com/googleScholar.qst?docId=5001903843</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So. mice can be intelligent?  Very interesting. Here&#8217;s an article arguing that there is really no such &#8220;thing&#8221; as inteliigence.<a href="http://www.questia.com/googleScholar.qst?docId=5001903843" rel="nofollow">http://www.questia.com/googleScholar.qst?docId=5001903843</a></p>
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		<title>By: Dave&#8217;s Whiteboard &#187; Blog Archive &#187; If you&#8217;re so smart, how come?</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/19/genes-and-intelligence-my-anti-story/comment-page-1/#comment-9678</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave&#8217;s Whiteboard &#187; Blog Archive &#187; If you&#8217;re so smart, how come?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 12:45:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/19/genes-and-intelligence-my-anti-story/#comment-9678</guid>
		<description>[...] Even so, I came across this post on Razib&#8217;s Gene Expression blog, linking in turn to an article by Carl Zimmer: Genes and Intelligence: My Anti-Story. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Even so, I came across this post on Razib&#8217;s Gene Expression blog, linking in turn to an article by Carl Zimmer: Genes and Intelligence: My Anti-Story. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: trrll</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/19/genes-and-intelligence-my-anti-story/comment-page-1/#comment-9674</link>
		<dc:creator>trrll</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Sep 2008 23:11:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/19/genes-and-intelligence-my-anti-story/#comment-9674</guid>
		<description>Another comment: rather than attempting to correlate general measures of intelligence such as IQ with SNPs, it might be more productive to look for families in which a high capability in one kind of intellectual activity is linked with low capability in another kind--for example, people with high mathematical skills but difficulty with facial expressions. This might be a way of finding genes with larger effects, which might lead to genuine insights into the nature of intelligence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another comment: rather than attempting to correlate general measures of intelligence such as IQ with SNPs, it might be more productive to look for families in which a high capability in one kind of intellectual activity is linked with low capability in another kind&#8211;for example, people with high mathematical skills but difficulty with facial expressions. This might be a way of finding genes with larger effects, which might lead to genuine insights into the nature of intelligence.</p>
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		<title>By: trrll</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/19/genes-and-intelligence-my-anti-story/comment-page-1/#comment-9673</link>
		<dc:creator>trrll</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Sep 2008 22:55:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/19/genes-and-intelligence-my-anti-story/#comment-9673</guid>
		<description>Given what we know about the complexity of the nervous system--the number of different types of neurons, the complexity of connections, the multitude of neurotransmitter receptor subtypes with subtle functional differences, it would be astonishing if there were not a huge number of alleles impacting intelligence. Of course, there is no meaningful distinction between a gene for higher intelligence and a gene for lower intelligence--it just depends upon which one you define as &quot;normal.&quot; It is likely that most of them have effects too subtle to be detected in isolation, and that some of them interact in nonlinear ways. 

It is notable that some transgenic manipulations of mice result in animals that exhibit greater intelligence in some behavioral tests. Some of these are pretty crude manipulations, such as deleting or overexpressing a particular gene, so it seems unlikely that the apparently greater intelligence results in a benefit in a natural environment--if it did, the mutation would likely already be common. Very likely the improved intelligence in some contexts is associated with deficiencies in behaviors that are not tested in the laboratory. However, it supports the common wisdom that intelligence is multifactorial, and cannot be adequately defined by a single score.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Given what we know about the complexity of the nervous system&#8211;the number of different types of neurons, the complexity of connections, the multitude of neurotransmitter receptor subtypes with subtle functional differences, it would be astonishing if there were not a huge number of alleles impacting intelligence. Of course, there is no meaningful distinction between a gene for higher intelligence and a gene for lower intelligence&#8211;it just depends upon which one you define as &#8220;normal.&#8221; It is likely that most of them have effects too subtle to be detected in isolation, and that some of them interact in nonlinear ways. </p>
<p>It is notable that some transgenic manipulations of mice result in animals that exhibit greater intelligence in some behavioral tests. Some of these are pretty crude manipulations, such as deleting or overexpressing a particular gene, so it seems unlikely that the apparently greater intelligence results in a benefit in a natural environment&#8211;if it did, the mutation would likely already be common. Very likely the improved intelligence in some contexts is associated with deficiencies in behaviors that are not tested in the laboratory. However, it supports the common wisdom that intelligence is multifactorial, and cannot be adequately defined by a single score.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Malloy</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/19/genes-and-intelligence-my-anti-story/comment-page-1/#comment-9660</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Malloy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Sep 2008 13:39:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/19/genes-and-intelligence-my-anti-story/#comment-9660</guid>
		<description>I feel like the anti-story here is larger than IQ, and is really about what genome-wide association studies have been able to reveal about continuous traits in general at this stage. I doubt intelligence is very unique compared with other quantitative genetics traits. Height and intelligence, for example are similar in a lot of ways (e.g. similar heritabilities), and we&#039;re seeing the same stuff with the genetics of height.

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=2265649
https://oa.doria.fi/bitstream/handle/10024/33645/searchfo.pdf?sequence=1</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I feel like the anti-story here is larger than IQ, and is really about what genome-wide association studies have been able to reveal about continuous traits in general at this stage. I doubt intelligence is very unique compared with other quantitative genetics traits. Height and intelligence, for example are similar in a lot of ways (e.g. similar heritabilities), and we&#8217;re seeing the same stuff with the genetics of height.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=2265649" rel="nofollow">http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=2265649</a><br />
<a href="https://oa.doria.fi/bitstream/handle/10024/33645/searchfo.pdf?sequence=1" rel="nofollow">https://oa.doria.fi/bitstream/handle/10024/33645/searchfo.pdf?sequence=1</a></p>
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		<title>By: Curious</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/19/genes-and-intelligence-my-anti-story/comment-page-1/#comment-9655</link>
		<dc:creator>Curious</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Sep 2008 15:41:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/19/genes-and-intelligence-my-anti-story/#comment-9655</guid>
		<description>A very fascinating summery on IQ research until now. Perhaps the most telling research, I would think, is from Turkheimer et al. that debunked gene-centric view based on identical twins.

It would be nice to have another summary of the all the researches that look at environmental factors that influence IQ. viz.,
- Parental economic conditions
- Parental verbal ability
- Food habits 
- Temperate/Tropical environment</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A very fascinating summery on IQ research until now. Perhaps the most telling research, I would think, is from Turkheimer et al. that debunked gene-centric view based on identical twins.</p>
<p>It would be nice to have another summary of the all the researches that look at environmental factors that influence IQ. viz.,<br />
- Parental economic conditions<br />
- Parental verbal ability<br />
- Food habits<br />
- Temperate/Tropical environment</p>
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		<title>By: Sigmund</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/19/genes-and-intelligence-my-anti-story/comment-page-1/#comment-9652</link>
		<dc:creator>Sigmund</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Sep 2008 08:37:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/19/genes-and-intelligence-my-anti-story/#comment-9652</guid>
		<description>Geoffrey, you&#039;ve brought up a point that I&#039;ve often considered. A few years back I was working in Oxford, close to one of a group involved in analysis of the genetics of Fragile-X syndrome. I&#039;m sure you know the details of this condition but for others unfamiliar the important point is that, while it frequently results in highly retarded males, its expression in females can be much less  severe. One of the societal points of this condition as pointed out to me at the time was that the mildly retarded fragile-x females were able to function in society, they just had a lower IQ - and consequently were not that good at birth control - they frequently had much more children than average, thereby increasing the numbers of carriers and thus the overall incidence in the population.
Obviously this is just one condition but one wonders if there are any other similar factors that may become exposed by studies such as the haplomapping project once we begin to compare things like reproductive rates to the data.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Geoffrey, you&#8217;ve brought up a point that I&#8217;ve often considered. A few years back I was working in Oxford, close to one of a group involved in analysis of the genetics of Fragile-X syndrome. I&#8217;m sure you know the details of this condition but for others unfamiliar the important point is that, while it frequently results in highly retarded males, its expression in females can be much less  severe. One of the societal points of this condition as pointed out to me at the time was that the mildly retarded fragile-x females were able to function in society, they just had a lower IQ &#8211; and consequently were not that good at birth control &#8211; they frequently had much more children than average, thereby increasing the numbers of carriers and thus the overall incidence in the population.<br />
Obviously this is just one condition but one wonders if there are any other similar factors that may become exposed by studies such as the haplomapping project once we begin to compare things like reproductive rates to the data.</p>
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		<title>By: Geoffrey Miller</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/19/genes-and-intelligence-my-anti-story/comment-page-1/#comment-9650</link>
		<dc:creator>Geoffrey Miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Sep 2008 23:18:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/19/genes-and-intelligence-my-anti-story/#comment-9650</guid>
		<description>Gene-hunting has already found over 800 Mendelian genes of major effect that influence human intelligence. Thing is, they all reduce it.  They&#039;re called genes for mental retardation. Chances are all of the DNA microarray results will look similar --lots of quantitative trait loci will emerge that predict slightly impaired intelligence in certain populations. But those QTLs will basically be evolutionarily recent mutations -- things like single nucleotide substitutions, deletions, insertsions -- that reduce the precision of brain growth and the efficiency of brain function. Since they&#039;re mutations, they&#039;re selected against, and don&#039;t spread across populations, and don&#039;t replicate across samples.-- Geoffrey Miller</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gene-hunting has already found over 800 Mendelian genes of major effect that influence human intelligence. Thing is, they all reduce it.  They&#8217;re called genes for mental retardation. Chances are all of the DNA microarray results will look similar &#8211;lots of quantitative trait loci will emerge that predict slightly impaired intelligence in certain populations. But those QTLs will basically be evolutionarily recent mutations &#8212; things like single nucleotide substitutions, deletions, insertsions &#8212; that reduce the precision of brain growth and the efficiency of brain function. Since they&#8217;re mutations, they&#8217;re selected against, and don&#8217;t spread across populations, and don&#8217;t replicate across samples.&#8211; Geoffrey Miller</p>
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		<title>By: Charlie Wagner</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/19/genes-and-intelligence-my-anti-story/comment-page-1/#comment-9649</link>
		<dc:creator>Charlie Wagner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Sep 2008 23:10:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/19/genes-and-intelligence-my-anti-story/#comment-9649</guid>
		<description>This URL culls out the relevant posts in this massive thread.

http://tinyurl.com/3qlugh

Of course, there is a lot of other good stuff in the whole thread!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This URL culls out the relevant posts in this massive thread.</p>
<p><a href="http://tinyurl.com/3qlugh" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/3qlugh</a></p>
<p>Of course, there is a lot of other good stuff in the whole thread!</p>
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		<title>By: Charlie Wagner</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/19/genes-and-intelligence-my-anti-story/comment-page-1/#comment-9648</link>
		<dc:creator>Charlie Wagner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Sep 2008 23:02:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/19/genes-and-intelligence-my-anti-story/#comment-9648</guid>
		<description>&lt;B&lt;&quot;What’s the news? That there is no news.&quot;&lt;/B&gt;

With all due respect, I disagree. 

From The American Psychological Association:

     &quot;The observed increase in average IQ scores of 3 points per decade has been reported by many as proof
that intelligence is not stable but is flexible with regards to environmental influences. However, none of the
authors in this extensive review of
the data, believes that intelligence is increasing at a rate greater than can be
attributed by eugenic means (breeding smarter people). Instead, they are looking at
the mechanisms of tests and how they are administered and interpreted in different time periods as people
become exposed to differing environments. That is, as the humans change their environment they change the
context in which their intelligence comes into play, and the testing methods must take this change into
account. Obviously they have not because the generational change in IQ results has increased,
without any evidence that today&#039;s children are any smarter than their great-grand-parents. So it is back to
the drawing boards for the psychometricians who design the tests.
     Neisser states that, &quot;Whatever g may be, we at least know how to measure it. The accepted best measure,
which has played a central role in analyses of the worldwide rise in test scores, is the Raven Progressive
Matrices. This test, devised by Spearman&#039;s student John C. Raven, was first published in 1938 and is now
available at several levels of difficulty. Arthur Jensen has said that Raven&#039;s test &#039;apparently
measures g and little else&#039; and that it &#039;is probably the surest instrument we now possess for discovering
intellectually gifted children from disadvantaged backgrounds&#039;. The Raven is of particular interest because it
shows such large IQ gains over time. In The Netherlands, for example, all male 18-year-olds take a version of
the Raven as part of a military induction requirement. The mean scores of those annual samples
rose steadily between 1952 and 1982, gaining the equivalent of 21 IQ points in only 30 years! This amounts to
a rate of no less than 7 points per decade -- a figure confirmed by data from many other countries. What can
these increases mean?&quot;
     And later he states, &quot;However, one may choose to interpret it, the fact that (unknown) environmental
factors are raising the mean IQ of Americans by 3 points per decade certainly shows that the environment
matters! The second proposition has quite a different status. Within a given population and a given range of
environments (e.g., those that are characteristic for White American males in 1998), genetic factors do make a
major contribution to individual differences. This has now been shown beyond a reasonable doubt
by the methods of behavior genetics, a discipline that is primarily concerned with variability. The
individuals in a given population differ on almost any measure one is likely to care about: their heights,
weights, Raven scores, IQ scores, or anything else. Every such measure has a distribution, often a bell-shaped
normal one. . . . Unfortunately, no one knows what it is about the environment that makes
this contribution to differences in IQ scores. Some obvious possibilities, such as the economic and
intellectual quality of children&#039;s home situations, may be less important than was once believed. The
surprising fact is that when biologically unrelated children are raised in the same home (as in many cases of
adoption), the correlation between their IQ scores is unimpressive in childhood and near zero as they grow up!
This finding is important, but it is still negative: The aspects of the environment that do matter for the
development of intelligence have not yet been identified.&quot;
     Well, it doesn&#039;t mean that people are getting any smarter but rather that the environment is impacting
how the results of IQ test scores are interpreted. That is, the expression of intelligence is not the same as
intelligence. If children today have a high level of exposure to visual-spatial stimulus such as computer
games, and IQ tests used 50 years ago used the same visual challenges to interpret intelligence, then the
tests may no longer be valid from one generation to the next for comparisons. Intelligence hasn&#039;t changed, the
means to test intelligence has not kept up with human contextual flexibility to deal with a changing
environment.&quot;
    &quot;Flynn states this fact succinctly, &quot;Moreover, data whose quality cannot be challenged have posed the same
question. The Dutch military data, like those of Israel, Norway, and Belgium, are near exhaustive; but even
better, Vroon compared a sample of the total population of Dutch examinees with the scores of their own
fathers. There is simply no doubt that Dutch men in 1952 had a mean IQ of 79 when scored against 1982 norms.
Has the average person in The Netherlands ever been near mental retardation? Does it make sense to assume that
at one time almost 40% of Dutch men lacked the capacity to understand soccer, their most favored national
sport?&quot;
     Of course not, and that is why the Flynn effect is not taken seriously as an increase in real
intelligence, because we just do not see one generation as more intelligent than previous ones, on a myriad of
social indication scales. One would have to assume that the Greek philosophers were all mentally retarded, and
yet wrote with such elegance that we still read and try to interpret their works today. It is absurd. And not
one scholar in this book believes that real intelligence is changing but ever so slightly over time from
environmental effects.&quot; 

I have written extensively on this topic. Start at talk.origins:

http://tinyurl.com/4qor8o</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b <"What’s the news? That there is no news."</B></p>
<p>With all due respect, I disagree. </p>
<p>From The American Psychological Association:</p>
<p>     &#8220;The observed increase in average IQ scores of 3 points per decade has been reported by many as proof<br />
that intelligence is not stable but is flexible with regards to environmental influences. However, none of the<br />
authors in this extensive review of<br />
the data, believes that intelligence is increasing at a rate greater than can be<br />
attributed by eugenic means (breeding smarter people). Instead, they are looking at<br />
the mechanisms of tests and how they are administered and interpreted in different time periods as people<br />
become exposed to differing environments. That is, as the humans change their environment they change the<br />
context in which their intelligence comes into play, and the testing methods must take this change into<br />
account. Obviously they have not because the generational change in IQ results has increased,<br />
without any evidence that today&#8217;s children are any smarter than their great-grand-parents. So it is back to<br />
the drawing boards for the psychometricians who design the tests.<br />
     Neisser states that, &#8220;Whatever g may be, we at least know how to measure it. The accepted best measure,<br />
which has played a central role in analyses of the worldwide rise in test scores, is the Raven Progressive<br />
Matrices. This test, devised by Spearman&#8217;s student John C. Raven, was first published in 1938 and is now<br />
available at several levels of difficulty. Arthur Jensen has said that Raven&#8217;s test &#8216;apparently<br />
measures g and little else&#8217; and that it &#8216;is probably the surest instrument we now possess for discovering<br />
intellectually gifted children from disadvantaged backgrounds&#8217;. The Raven is of particular interest because it<br />
shows such large IQ gains over time. In The Netherlands, for example, all male 18-year-olds take a version of<br />
the Raven as part of a military induction requirement. The mean scores of those annual samples<br />
rose steadily between 1952 and 1982, gaining the equivalent of 21 IQ points in only 30 years! This amounts to<br />
a rate of no less than 7 points per decade &#8212; a figure confirmed by data from many other countries. What can<br />
these increases mean?&#8221;<br />
     And later he states, &#8220;However, one may choose to interpret it, the fact that (unknown) environmental<br />
factors are raising the mean IQ of Americans by 3 points per decade certainly shows that the environment<br />
matters! The second proposition has quite a different status. Within a given population and a given range of<br />
environments (e.g., those that are characteristic for White American males in 1998), genetic factors do make a<br />
major contribution to individual differences. This has now been shown beyond a reasonable doubt<br />
by the methods of behavior genetics, a discipline that is primarily concerned with variability. The<br />
individuals in a given population differ on almost any measure one is likely to care about: their heights,<br />
weights, Raven scores, IQ scores, or anything else. Every such measure has a distribution, often a bell-shaped<br />
normal one. . . . Unfortunately, no one knows what it is about the environment that makes<br />
this contribution to differences in IQ scores. Some obvious possibilities, such as the economic and<br />
intellectual quality of children&#8217;s home situations, may be less important than was once believed. The<br />
surprising fact is that when biologically unrelated children are raised in the same home (as in many cases of<br />
adoption), the correlation between their IQ scores is unimpressive in childhood and near zero as they grow up!<br />
This finding is important, but it is still negative: The aspects of the environment that do matter for the<br />
development of intelligence have not yet been identified.&#8221;<br />
     Well, it doesn&#8217;t mean that people are getting any smarter but rather that the environment is impacting<br />
how the results of IQ test scores are interpreted. That is, the expression of intelligence is not the same as<br />
intelligence. If children today have a high level of exposure to visual-spatial stimulus such as computer<br />
games, and IQ tests used 50 years ago used the same visual challenges to interpret intelligence, then the<br />
tests may no longer be valid from one generation to the next for comparisons. Intelligence hasn&#8217;t changed, the<br />
means to test intelligence has not kept up with human contextual flexibility to deal with a changing<br />
environment.&#8221;<br />
    &#8220;Flynn states this fact succinctly, &#8220;Moreover, data whose quality cannot be challenged have posed the same<br />
question. The Dutch military data, like those of Israel, Norway, and Belgium, are near exhaustive; but even<br />
better, Vroon compared a sample of the total population of Dutch examinees with the scores of their own<br />
fathers. There is simply no doubt that Dutch men in 1952 had a mean IQ of 79 when scored against 1982 norms.<br />
Has the average person in The Netherlands ever been near mental retardation? Does it make sense to assume that<br />
at one time almost 40% of Dutch men lacked the capacity to understand soccer, their most favored national<br />
sport?&#8221;<br />
     Of course not, and that is why the Flynn effect is not taken seriously as an increase in real<br />
intelligence, because we just do not see one generation as more intelligent than previous ones, on a myriad of<br />
social indication scales. One would have to assume that the Greek philosophers were all mentally retarded, and<br />
yet wrote with such elegance that we still read and try to interpret their works today. It is absurd. And not<br />
one scholar in this book believes that real intelligence is changing but ever so slightly over time from<br />
environmental effects.&#8221; </p>
<p>I have written extensively on this topic. Start at talk.origins:</p>
<p><a href="http://tinyurl.com/4qor8o" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/4qor8o</a></b></p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: No Gender Differences In Math Performance - Page 22 - Bad Astronomy and Universe Today Forum</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/19/genes-and-intelligence-my-anti-story/comment-page-1/#comment-9647</link>
		<dc:creator>No Gender Differences In Math Performance - Page 22 - Bad Astronomy and Universe Today Forum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Sep 2008 21:43:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/19/genes-and-intelligence-my-anti-story/#comment-9647</guid>
		<description>[...] into this:  &#039;...just a handful of genes show much sign of influencing intelligence, and yet each one accounts at...    __________________ &quot;All your bias are belong to us.&quot; Ara Pacis &quot;A witty saying [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] into this:  &#8216;&#8230;just a handful of genes show much sign of influencing intelligence, and yet each one accounts at&#8230;    __________________ &quot;All your bias are belong to us.&quot; Ara Pacis &quot;A witty saying [...]</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: EastwoodDC</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/19/genes-and-intelligence-my-anti-story/comment-page-1/#comment-9646</link>
		<dc:creator>EastwoodDC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Sep 2008 20:53:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/19/genes-and-intelligence-my-anti-story/#comment-9646</guid>
		<description>I no expert on statistical genetics, but it is likely the data is the best available - I did not mean to imply these are junk studies. I sometimes see statistical models with strong significance yet almost no predictive power, and it generally indicates a bad model fit. In other words, my model isn&#039;t considering the data in the correct way. I am suggesting something analogous with intelligence: We have learned some key pieces of the puzzle, but it not being considered in the right sort of way.
I will go out on a (very short) limb and suggest that intelligence tests really aren&#039;t measuring the important qualities very well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I no expert on statistical genetics, but it is likely the data is the best available &#8211; I did not mean to imply these are junk studies. I sometimes see statistical models with strong significance yet almost no predictive power, and it generally indicates a bad model fit. In other words, my model isn&#8217;t considering the data in the correct way. I am suggesting something analogous with intelligence: We have learned some key pieces of the puzzle, but it not being considered in the right sort of way.<br />
I will go out on a (very short) limb and suggest that intelligence tests really aren&#8217;t measuring the important qualities very well.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Carl Zimmer</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/19/genes-and-intelligence-my-anti-story/comment-page-1/#comment-9645</link>
		<dc:creator>Carl Zimmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Sep 2008 20:04:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/19/genes-and-intelligence-my-anti-story/#comment-9645</guid>
		<description>Hey folks--I just updated the post with a couple links to papers I reported on. So take a look there to decide if the data is junk, etc....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey folks&#8211;I just updated the post with a couple links to papers I reported on. So take a look there to decide if the data is junk, etc&#8230;.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: EastwoodDC</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/19/genes-and-intelligence-my-anti-story/comment-page-1/#comment-9644</link>
		<dc:creator>EastwoodDC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Sep 2008 19:46:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/19/genes-and-intelligence-my-anti-story/#comment-9644</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;For example, just a handful of genes show much sign of influencing intelligence, and yet each one accounts at best for a fraction of one percent of the variation in test scores.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

When I fit a statistical model that is significant, yet accounts for only a trivial portion of the variance, I strongly suspect that 1) the data is junk, or 2) I have made incorrect assumptions in my model. This suggests we need to rework the basic concept of intelligence in a different way (as Matt already noted).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>For example, just a handful of genes show much sign of influencing intelligence, and yet each one accounts at best for a fraction of one percent of the variation in test scores.</p></blockquote>
<p>When I fit a statistical model that is significant, yet accounts for only a trivial portion of the variance, I strongly suspect that 1) the data is junk, or 2) I have made incorrect assumptions in my model. This suggests we need to rework the basic concept of intelligence in a different way (as Matt already noted).</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: learner</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/19/genes-and-intelligence-my-anti-story/comment-page-1/#comment-9643</link>
		<dc:creator>learner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Sep 2008 19:45:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/19/genes-and-intelligence-my-anti-story/#comment-9643</guid>
		<description>When it&#039;s so well established that environment is overwhelmingly the determinant of so many forms of intelligence, what is the rationale for allocating such expensive tools to address this question? The cost and opportunity cost really bothers me. Maybe I&#039;ll have to read your piece.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When it&#8217;s so well established that environment is overwhelmingly the determinant of so many forms of intelligence, what is the rationale for allocating such expensive tools to address this question? The cost and opportunity cost really bothers me. Maybe I&#8217;ll have to read your piece.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/19/genes-and-intelligence-my-anti-story/comment-page-1/#comment-9642</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Sep 2008 17:33:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/19/genes-and-intelligence-my-anti-story/#comment-9642</guid>
		<description>&quot;Intelligence&quot; is just a metaphor.  

Though genes may set the stage for how an individual perceives their environment, &quot;intelligence&quot; is learned.  It helps to think of intelligence as a behavioral repertoire, a set of skills one has, instead of some sort of physical entity within an organism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Intelligence&#8221; is just a metaphor.  </p>
<p>Though genes may set the stage for how an individual perceives their environment, &#8220;intelligence&#8221; is learned.  It helps to think of intelligence as a behavioral repertoire, a set of skills one has, instead of some sort of physical entity within an organism.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Eva</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/19/genes-and-intelligence-my-anti-story/comment-page-1/#comment-9641</link>
		<dc:creator>Eva</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Sep 2008 17:28:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/19/genes-and-intelligence-my-anti-story/#comment-9641</guid>
		<description>But a lack of breakthroughs is what *usually* happens in science. Judging by headlines it&#039;s one big discovery after another, and that&#039;s simply not true. Kudos for writing about a non-breakthrough!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But a lack of breakthroughs is what *usually* happens in science. Judging by headlines it&#8217;s one big discovery after another, and that&#8217;s simply not true. Kudos for writing about a non-breakthrough!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: buffalodavid</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/19/genes-and-intelligence-my-anti-story/comment-page-1/#comment-9640</link>
		<dc:creator>buffalodavid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Sep 2008 17:02:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2008/09/19/genes-and-intelligence-my-anti-story/#comment-9640</guid>
		<description>I know its fashionable to talk about our recent &quot;dumbing down&quot;, and I think its true, but... or better yet, AND, I think that the possibility for good intelligence seems to be in most people.  I still believe that education is the silver bullet that will bring about the &quot;Great Enlightenment&quot; . Take that you post modernist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know its fashionable to talk about our recent &#8220;dumbing down&#8221;, and I think its true, but&#8230; or better yet, AND, I think that the possibility for good intelligence seems to be in most people.  I still believe that education is the silver bullet that will bring about the &#8220;Great Enlightenment&#8221; . Take that you post modernist.</p>
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