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	<title>Comments on: Science Held Hostage</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2009/05/21/science-held-hostage/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2009/05/21/science-held-hostage/</link>
	<description>A blog about life, past and future. Written by DISCOVER contributing editor and columnist Carl Zimmer.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 23:52:02 -0600</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: This Saturday: Skeptics in New York &#124; The Loom &#124; Discover Magazine</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2009/05/21/science-held-hostage/comment-page-1/#comment-25537</link>
		<dc:creator>This Saturday: Skeptics in New York &#124; The Loom &#124; Discover Magazine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 18:46:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2009/05/21/science-held-hostage/#comment-25537</guid>
		<description>[...] be talking about science and the news, and the weird new interactions they have these days. Darwinius and other stunning episodes will feature prominently. The whole day looks great. Hope to see some [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] be talking about science and the news, and the weird new interactions they have these days. Darwinius and other stunning episodes will feature prominently. The whole day looks great. Hope to see some [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Quando lo show uccide la scienza &#171; Progetto Galileo</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2009/05/21/science-held-hostage/comment-page-1/#comment-18915</link>
		<dc:creator>Quando lo show uccide la scienza &#171; Progetto Galileo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 May 2009 11:27:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2009/05/21/science-held-hostage/#comment-18915</guid>
		<description>[...] Loom [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Loom [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Stenfugle &#187; Den lille Idas knogler</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2009/05/21/science-held-hostage/comment-page-1/#comment-18888</link>
		<dc:creator>Stenfugle &#187; Den lille Idas knogler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2009 08:49:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2009/05/21/science-held-hostage/#comment-18888</guid>
		<description>[...] Carl Zimmer har på The Loom dokumenteret at seriøse videnskabsjournalister blev direkte forhindret i at få fat i den videnskabelige artikel eller kontakte uafhængige eksperter, før mediemøllen [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Carl Zimmer har på The Loom dokumenteret at seriøse videnskabsjournalister blev direkte forhindret i at få fat i den videnskabelige artikel eller kontakte uafhængige eksperter, før mediemøllen [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Marley</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2009/05/21/science-held-hostage/comment-page-1/#comment-18667</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Marley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 May 2009 17:47:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2009/05/21/science-held-hostage/#comment-18667</guid>
		<description>J Pardo asks,

Q: Why do you think that scientists collect those specimens?  

A: Primarily for their personal research and not for the benefit of museums and public education.
 
Q: Why do you think that museums dedicate huge amounts of money to maintaining facilities to store and preserve those specimens?  

A: Most natural history museums don&#039;t have large permanent collections comprised of hundreds of tons of available fossils, and more importantly, fewer still create permanent displays with those specimens to inform the public.  Increasingly, science museums are replacing &quot;cabinet displays&quot; with interactive computers,  animated characters, IMAX
theaters and larger gift shops.  Collections based presentations are considered too static to generate high volume ticket sales, 
because many curators believe that they are required to dazzle the public and must &quot;compete&quot; for family entertainment dollars against theme parks and sporting events.  I think this is a competition they can&#039;t win, as museum ticket prices spiral higher and higher. Isn&#039;t the over-hyping of science the core issue of this forum?  

Frankly, my personal collection of paleozoic fauna is more extensive and better documented than any of the museums in our area, except for the UC Berkeley Museum of Paleontology - which is a research facility and closed to the public.  
When I&#039;ve inquired about developing a temporary display using these private specimens,  at my expense - I&#039;ve been told by  museum directors that they have no interest, no space available and they question the marketing value of undertaking such a project.  A few times, I&#039;ve often been told that personal ownership of fossils isn&#039;t in the public interest - and that my collection belongs in a museum!   OK , where?
I&#039;ve offered to bring specimens to public schools or to set up small displays in libraries (again, for free)  but I&#039;m told by teachers and those in charge that presentations about fossils sometimes lead to complaints from Christian conservative parents (and church groups) concerning forcing belief in evolution on students... more often than not, there are concerns about not making &quot;waves&quot; and few have been willing to take the risk.  Over and over again, in the public eye, we downplay the paleontological and geological evidence for evolution and an ancient earth... or we undermine it through reckless public relations and infighting. 

My Question: Can we both agree that much more could be done to inform the public about paleontological discoveries, considering the vast quantity of fossils unearthed every year?  

Best Regards
Steve</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>J Pardo asks,</p>
<p>Q: Why do you think that scientists collect those specimens?  </p>
<p>A: Primarily for their personal research and not for the benefit of museums and public education.</p>
<p>Q: Why do you think that museums dedicate huge amounts of money to maintaining facilities to store and preserve those specimens?  </p>
<p>A: Most natural history museums don&#8217;t have large permanent collections comprised of hundreds of tons of available fossils, and more importantly, fewer still create permanent displays with those specimens to inform the public.  Increasingly, science museums are replacing &#8220;cabinet displays&#8221; with interactive computers,  animated characters, IMAX<br />
theaters and larger gift shops.  Collections based presentations are considered too static to generate high volume ticket sales,<br />
because many curators believe that they are required to dazzle the public and must &#8220;compete&#8221; for family entertainment dollars against theme parks and sporting events.  I think this is a competition they can&#8217;t win, as museum ticket prices spiral higher and higher. Isn&#8217;t the over-hyping of science the core issue of this forum?  </p>
<p>Frankly, my personal collection of paleozoic fauna is more extensive and better documented than any of the museums in our area, except for the UC Berkeley Museum of Paleontology &#8211; which is a research facility and closed to the public.<br />
When I&#8217;ve inquired about developing a temporary display using these private specimens,  at my expense &#8211; I&#8217;ve been told by  museum directors that they have no interest, no space available and they question the marketing value of undertaking such a project.  A few times, I&#8217;ve often been told that personal ownership of fossils isn&#8217;t in the public interest &#8211; and that my collection belongs in a museum!   OK , where?<br />
I&#8217;ve offered to bring specimens to public schools or to set up small displays in libraries (again, for free)  but I&#8217;m told by teachers and those in charge that presentations about fossils sometimes lead to complaints from Christian conservative parents (and church groups) concerning forcing belief in evolution on students&#8230; more often than not, there are concerns about not making &#8220;waves&#8221; and few have been willing to take the risk.  Over and over again, in the public eye, we downplay the paleontological and geological evidence for evolution and an ancient earth&#8230; or we undermine it through reckless public relations and infighting. </p>
<p>My Question: Can we both agree that much more could be done to inform the public about paleontological discoveries, considering the vast quantity of fossils unearthed every year?  </p>
<p>Best Regards<br />
Steve</p>
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		<title>By: sciencesofa</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2009/05/21/science-held-hostage/comment-page-1/#comment-18666</link>
		<dc:creator>sciencesofa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 May 2009 16:46:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2009/05/21/science-held-hostage/#comment-18666</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Was ist wie ein Asteroideneinschlag, wie der Rosettastein, vergleichbar mit der Mondlandung und der Ermordung Kennedys&#8230;&lt;/strong&gt;

&#8230; das anthropologische Äquivalent des Heiligen Grals und die wichtigste Entdeckung seit 47 Millionen Jahren, die alles ändern wird? Richtig, Darwinius masillae, ein urzeitliches Primätchen, 58 Zentimeter lang und vor 47 Millionen Jahren im zar...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Was ist wie ein Asteroideneinschlag, wie der Rosettastein, vergleichbar mit der Mondlandung und der Ermordung Kennedys&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>&#8230; das anthropologische Äquivalent des Heiligen Grals und die wichtigste Entdeckung seit 47 Millionen Jahren, die alles ändern wird? Richtig, Darwinius masillae, ein urzeitliches Primätchen, 58 Zentimeter lang und vor 47 Millionen Jahren im zar&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Philip Camp</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2009/05/21/science-held-hostage/comment-page-1/#comment-18635</link>
		<dc:creator>Philip Camp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 May 2009 00:18:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2009/05/21/science-held-hostage/#comment-18635</guid>
		<description>Since the &quot;missing link&quot; was the link between species of 3-6 million years ago, and not 60 million, it proves very little besides the fact that biologists want creationists to shut up &amp; that the media agree. So Darwinus has fingernails instead of claws, great; Devonian mollusks have compound eyes,  which proves we came from mollusks instead of fish...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since the &#8220;missing link&#8221; was the link between species of 3-6 million years ago, and not 60 million, it proves very little besides the fact that biologists want creationists to shut up &#038; that the media agree. So Darwinus has fingernails instead of claws, great; Devonian mollusks have compound eyes,  which proves we came from mollusks instead of fish&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Penmachine words music comment</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2009/05/21/science-held-hostage/comment-page-1/#comment-18633</link>
		<dc:creator>Penmachine words music comment</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 May 2009 23:47:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2009/05/21/science-held-hostage/#comment-18633</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Ida the fossil: no missing link, but PR stunt&lt;/strong&gt;

Researchers got sucked into a TV production, rushed their publication to meet a deadline a week before the show is to air, and then let themselves get swept into a media frenzy that has seriously distorted, misrepresented, and even lied about what th...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Ida the fossil: no missing link, but PR stunt</strong></p>
<p>Researchers got sucked into a TV production, rushed their publication to meet a deadline a week before the show is to air, and then let themselves get swept into a media frenzy that has seriously distorted, misrepresented, and even lied about what th&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Possible Missing Link Found - Bad Astronomy and Universe Today Forum</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2009/05/21/science-held-hostage/comment-page-1/#comment-18630</link>
		<dc:creator>Possible Missing Link Found - Bad Astronomy and Universe Today Forum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 May 2009 22:31:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2009/05/21/science-held-hostage/#comment-18630</guid>
		<description>[...] Zimmer appears not suitably impressed.  Discover Magazine Blog: The Loom: Science Held Hostage   [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Zimmer appears not suitably impressed.  Discover Magazine Blog: The Loom: Science Held Hostage   [...]</p>
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		<title>By: J Pardo</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2009/05/21/science-held-hostage/comment-page-1/#comment-18623</link>
		<dc:creator>J Pardo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 May 2009 18:56:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2009/05/21/science-held-hostage/#comment-18623</guid>
		<description>Quoting Steve Marley:

&lt;blockquote&gt; My point was that there are enough fossil specimens already collected to present a decent “life through time” exhibit at a museum in every major and minor metropolitan area in the USA.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Why do you think that scientists collect those specimens?  Why do you think that museums dedicate huge amounts of money to maintaining facilities to store and preserve those specimens?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quoting Steve Marley:</p>
<blockquote><p> My point was that there are enough fossil specimens already collected to present a decent “life through time” exhibit at a museum in every major and minor metropolitan area in the USA.</p></blockquote>
<p>Why do you think that scientists collect those specimens?  Why do you think that museums dedicate huge amounts of money to maintaining facilities to store and preserve those specimens?</p>
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		<title>By: Barista &#187; Blog Archive &#187; And God said, &#8216;let there be trash&#8217; and lo, there was television</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2009/05/21/science-held-hostage/comment-page-1/#comment-18605</link>
		<dc:creator>Barista &#187; Blog Archive &#187; And God said, &#8216;let there be trash&#8217; and lo, there was television</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 May 2009 10:07:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2009/05/21/science-held-hostage/#comment-18605</guid>
		<description>[...] the press conference. The television tail wagged the paper pooch a lot here, and Chris Mooney has an excellent post dissecting the grubbiness. Among other details, it allows us to deduce how the skunkworks gamed [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the press conference. The television tail wagged the paper pooch a lot here, and Chris Mooney has an excellent post dissecting the grubbiness. Among other details, it allows us to deduce how the skunkworks gamed [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Wyn Williams</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2009/05/21/science-held-hostage/comment-page-1/#comment-18595</link>
		<dc:creator>Wyn Williams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 May 2009 07:07:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2009/05/21/science-held-hostage/#comment-18595</guid>
		<description>This is not a good and balanced story, there is no god given right for journalists to be given information not available to the rest of the world just to keep them happy.
At the most it could of been released a day or two earlier.
How about blaming the press for the hype, the press for the bad science appearing before the paper was subject to outside review and the press for acting like a bunch of spoilt, moaning and unprofessional kids.

The facts are it was released at a press conference and the material made available for reporters too do there job, I fail to see how journalists can possibly justify the disgraceful attitude that if people will not give (or have time to give) them pre-information they will simply make things up then blame others for there lies and hype because they did not give them the real information.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is not a good and balanced story, there is no god given right for journalists to be given information not available to the rest of the world just to keep them happy.<br />
At the most it could of been released a day or two earlier.<br />
How about blaming the press for the hype, the press for the bad science appearing before the paper was subject to outside review and the press for acting like a bunch of spoilt, moaning and unprofessional kids.</p>
<p>The facts are it was released at a press conference and the material made available for reporters too do there job, I fail to see how journalists can possibly justify the disgraceful attitude that if people will not give (or have time to give) them pre-information they will simply make things up then blame others for there lies and hype because they did not give them the real information.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Marley</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2009/05/21/science-held-hostage/comment-page-1/#comment-18581</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Marley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 May 2009 02:29:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2009/05/21/science-held-hostage/#comment-18581</guid>
		<description>Hi  J. Pardo,
 Yes, you can see wonderful  specimens in the handful of museums you mentioned, but Ohio is a long weekend trip from California or Oregon . My point was that there are enough fossil specimens already collected to present a decent &quot;life through time&quot; exhibit at a museum in every major and minor metropolitan area in the USA.  As I suggested before, the public is not well served by the paleontological community, and it often feels like we&#039;re pandering to pure entertainment with all the &quot;robotic&quot; dinosaur exhibits making the rounds.
Paleontologists need to do a much better job of communicating with the public. People need to be able to see more fossils in local museums and have more fossils to pass around the elementary and secondary school classroom. There needs to be less hype, spin and acrimony between academic, amateur fossil hunters and the press -  otherwise the anti-evolution/creationist camp will continue to gain even more support.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi  J. Pardo,<br />
 Yes, you can see wonderful  specimens in the handful of museums you mentioned, but Ohio is a long weekend trip from California or Oregon . My point was that there are enough fossil specimens already collected to present a decent &#8220;life through time&#8221; exhibit at a museum in every major and minor metropolitan area in the USA.  As I suggested before, the public is not well served by the paleontological community, and it often feels like we&#8217;re pandering to pure entertainment with all the &#8220;robotic&#8221; dinosaur exhibits making the rounds.<br />
Paleontologists need to do a much better job of communicating with the public. People need to be able to see more fossils in local museums and have more fossils to pass around the elementary and secondary school classroom. There needs to be less hype, spin and acrimony between academic, amateur fossil hunters and the press &#8211;  otherwise the anti-evolution/creationist camp will continue to gain even more support.</p>
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