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	<title>Comments on: Book [P]review: For The Scientist</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2009/08/11/book-preview-for-the-scientist/</link>
	<description>A blog about life, past and future. Written by DISCOVER contributing editor and columnist Carl Zimmer.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 23:52:02 -0600</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Don&#8217;t Be Such a Scientist &#171; Scientific (mis)Communications</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2009/08/11/book-preview-for-the-scientist/comment-page-1/#comment-26767</link>
		<dc:creator>Don&#8217;t Be Such a Scientist &#171; Scientific (mis)Communications</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2009 02:10:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2009/08/11/book-preview-for-the-scientist/#comment-26767</guid>
		<description>[...] in me!  It has received positive reviews from the likes of noted science writer Carl Zimmer on his blog, as well as by talented science blogger PZ Myers on his blog, Pharyngula, but it sounds likely to [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] in me!  It has received positive reviews from the likes of noted science writer Carl Zimmer on his blog, as well as by talented science blogger PZ Myers on his blog, Pharyngula, but it sounds likely to [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Enezio E. de Almeida Filho</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2009/08/11/book-preview-for-the-scientist/comment-page-1/#comment-23256</link>
		<dc:creator>Enezio E. de Almeida Filho</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 23:25:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2009/08/11/book-preview-for-the-scientist/#comment-23256</guid>
		<description>You wrote: &quot;On August 11, 1999–ten years ago tomorrow–the State Board of Education in Kansas voted to take evolution out of the state’s science curriculum.&quot;

I am a History of Science researcher interested on scientific controversies who has read the KBOE&#039;s standards, and couldn&#039;t find in that document that they had &quot;voted to take evolution out of the state’s science curriculum.&quot; As a matter of fact, they increased the coverage of evolution in that educational document.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You wrote: &#8220;On August 11, 1999–ten years ago tomorrow–the State Board of Education in Kansas voted to take evolution out of the state’s science curriculum.&#8221;</p>
<p>I am a History of Science researcher interested on scientific controversies who has read the KBOE&#8217;s standards, and couldn&#8217;t find in that document that they had &#8220;voted to take evolution out of the state’s science curriculum.&#8221; As a matter of fact, they increased the coverage of evolution in that educational document.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Dursi</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2009/08/11/book-preview-for-the-scientist/comment-page-1/#comment-22226</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Dursi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 21:22:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2009/08/11/book-preview-for-the-scientist/#comment-22226</guid>
		<description>Well... I mean, sure.  By all means, include more education and incentives for scientists to communicate their work better.   It&#039;s just generally good, makes people better rounded,  will help enormously for those who follow non-traditional career paths, and will probably aid at the margins for communicating science to non-scientists.

But as has been endlessly pointed out, there are entire television stations dedicated to promoting science, and every bookstore has shelves and shelves of the stuff.  And there&#039;s the entire frickin&#039; internet chock full of science if you want to read it.  The issue isn&#039;t that scientists aren&#039;t pushing the information out, and making postdocs sound 10% less dorky when talking about their work just isn&#039;t going to result in any ginormous change.

I mean, look at the birther nonsense and the death panel stuff.  There are constituencies who find it congenial to have large numbers of people passionately believe satisfingly outraging nonsense.   People aren&#039;t signing up for this stuff because the people who issue birth certificates are talkin&#039; all egghead-ese about this stuff.   When its mentioned that most senior citizens in the US are already covered by a single payer system and the US hasn&#039;t become a soylent-green dystopia full of death panels and mandatory euthenasia, it&#039;s not that they&#039;re speakin&#039; all technical mumbo-jumbo.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well&#8230; I mean, sure.  By all means, include more education and incentives for scientists to communicate their work better.   It&#8217;s just generally good, makes people better rounded,  will help enormously for those who follow non-traditional career paths, and will probably aid at the margins for communicating science to non-scientists.</p>
<p>But as has been endlessly pointed out, there are entire television stations dedicated to promoting science, and every bookstore has shelves and shelves of the stuff.  And there&#8217;s the entire frickin&#8217; internet chock full of science if you want to read it.  The issue isn&#8217;t that scientists aren&#8217;t pushing the information out, and making postdocs sound 10% less dorky when talking about their work just isn&#8217;t going to result in any ginormous change.</p>
<p>I mean, look at the birther nonsense and the death panel stuff.  There are constituencies who find it congenial to have large numbers of people passionately believe satisfingly outraging nonsense.   People aren&#8217;t signing up for this stuff because the people who issue birth certificates are talkin&#8217; all egghead-ese about this stuff.   When its mentioned that most senior citizens in the US are already covered by a single payer system and the US hasn&#8217;t become a soylent-green dystopia full of death panels and mandatory euthenasia, it&#8217;s not that they&#8217;re speakin&#8217; all technical mumbo-jumbo.</p>
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		<title>By: It&#8217;s Like Not Wearing Your Cleats in the House &#171; Software Carpentry</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2009/08/11/book-preview-for-the-scientist/comment-page-1/#comment-21408</link>
		<dc:creator>It&#8217;s Like Not Wearing Your Cleats in the House &#171; Software Carpentry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Aug 2009 17:44:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2009/08/11/book-preview-for-the-scientist/#comment-21408</guid>
		<description>[...] &#8212; gvwilson @ 5:44 pm   Carl Zimmer, one of my favorite science writers, recently posted about three new books aimed at scientists: Unscientific America, Am I Making Myself Clear?, and Don&#8217;t Be Such a Scientist. All three [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] &#8212; gvwilson @ 5:44 pm   Carl Zimmer, one of my favorite science writers, recently posted about three new books aimed at scientists: Unscientific America, Am I Making Myself Clear?, and Don&#8217;t Be Such a Scientist. All three [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Helioprogenus</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2009/08/11/book-preview-for-the-scientist/comment-page-1/#comment-20815</link>
		<dc:creator>Helioprogenus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 05:34:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2009/08/11/book-preview-for-the-scientist/#comment-20815</guid>
		<description>As far as as the book &quot;Unscientific America: How Scientific Illiteracy Threatens our Future&quot;, the premise is fraught with irresponsible journalism, and less than effective strategy.  Apparently, Kirshenbaum and Mooney seem to think that the problem with effective science communication has a lot to do with &quot;new atheists&quot; driving the potentially science curious away with their rational arguments against religion, and rather critical analysis of its role in human society.  Basically, they insist that the problem is atheism, and not the religious institutions that maintain an irrational dogmatic belief structure amongst their adherents.  The blame for the lack of science education has more to do with lack of funding, and less with militant atheists driving people away.  Those who have developed empirical reasoning, and critical thinking skills will embrace non-religious concepts, regardless of the possible negative perception of the public face of non-believers.  Mooney and Kirschenbaum would love to silence criticism and dissent within the scientific community, and ultimately treat public science with kid-gloves.  Basically, framing an argument that entails coddling irrational thoughts, and imaginary beliefs to perhaps draw a few curious individuals towards a love of science.

Carl, I realize since you&#039;re both Discover blogs, you feel a need to respectfully refuse to criticize your misguided colleagues at The Intersection, but someone must be the voice of reason against what seems to be a terrible premise.

The truth is that only through an expanded scientific literacy program, both for the young, and even perhaps those who have moved beyond their schooling, will we maintain a high standard for critical thinking and reasoning.  The abandonment of religion is just a byproduct of scientific understanding.  Although there are those whose fears of just such a personal revelation prevent them from exploring their scientific curiosity, it should not limit the different varieties of communication by scientists to the public.  As long as religious institutions and their leaders continue to voice their false rhetoric, some have to stand up and challenge those fervently misguided and probably disingenuous equivocations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As far as as the book &#8220;Unscientific America: How Scientific Illiteracy Threatens our Future&#8221;, the premise is fraught with irresponsible journalism, and less than effective strategy.  Apparently, Kirshenbaum and Mooney seem to think that the problem with effective science communication has a lot to do with &#8220;new atheists&#8221; driving the potentially science curious away with their rational arguments against religion, and rather critical analysis of its role in human society.  Basically, they insist that the problem is atheism, and not the religious institutions that maintain an irrational dogmatic belief structure amongst their adherents.  The blame for the lack of science education has more to do with lack of funding, and less with militant atheists driving people away.  Those who have developed empirical reasoning, and critical thinking skills will embrace non-religious concepts, regardless of the possible negative perception of the public face of non-believers.  Mooney and Kirschenbaum would love to silence criticism and dissent within the scientific community, and ultimately treat public science with kid-gloves.  Basically, framing an argument that entails coddling irrational thoughts, and imaginary beliefs to perhaps draw a few curious individuals towards a love of science.</p>
<p>Carl, I realize since you&#8217;re both Discover blogs, you feel a need to respectfully refuse to criticize your misguided colleagues at The Intersection, but someone must be the voice of reason against what seems to be a terrible premise.</p>
<p>The truth is that only through an expanded scientific literacy program, both for the young, and even perhaps those who have moved beyond their schooling, will we maintain a high standard for critical thinking and reasoning.  The abandonment of religion is just a byproduct of scientific understanding.  Although there are those whose fears of just such a personal revelation prevent them from exploring their scientific curiosity, it should not limit the different varieties of communication by scientists to the public.  As long as religious institutions and their leaders continue to voice their false rhetoric, some have to stand up and challenge those fervently misguided and probably disingenuous equivocations.</p>
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		<title>By: Jdhuey</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2009/08/11/book-preview-for-the-scientist/comment-page-1/#comment-20775</link>
		<dc:creator>Jdhuey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 22:23:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2009/08/11/book-preview-for-the-scientist/#comment-20775</guid>
		<description>I have a somewhat contrarian viewpoint: I think science communicators in the mainstream popular medium - newspapers and TV - have dumbed down the level of discourse too much.    When I see so-called science shows on TV, there is such an emphasis on making the material accessible that all the substance is just gone.   I don&#039;t know how many shows I started to watch but got bored with because they kept going over the same material again and again (I assume they did this to stretch out the material to fill up an hour and thinking that stupid TV watchers can&#039;t remember any facts over the commercial breaks.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a somewhat contrarian viewpoint: I think science communicators in the mainstream popular medium &#8211; newspapers and TV &#8211; have dumbed down the level of discourse too much.    When I see so-called science shows on TV, there is such an emphasis on making the material accessible that all the substance is just gone.   I don&#8217;t know how many shows I started to watch but got bored with because they kept going over the same material again and again (I assume they did this to stretch out the material to fill up an hour and thinking that stupid TV watchers can&#8217;t remember any facts over the commercial breaks.)</p>
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		<title>By: Adrian</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2009/08/11/book-preview-for-the-scientist/comment-page-1/#comment-20773</link>
		<dc:creator>Adrian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 22:00:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2009/08/11/book-preview-for-the-scientist/#comment-20773</guid>
		<description>The quote from Randy Olson to me sums up the issue here.

&quot;It’s like asking football players not to wear their cleats in the house. You’re not asking them not to be football players, only to use their specific skills in the right place.&quot;

To me this is not a great analogy. You would still expect football players at home to act like football players: watching their diet, exercising, taking an interest in their opponents&#039; games and so on. Scientists are no different. They don&#039;t bring their gear home. They don&#039;t bring their experiments home. But they do bring home their questioning and inquiring world-view, their probabilistic view of the world. Because they ARE scientists. 

Also, scientists talking to lay people or in interviews are not at home. They are working. As scientists. It&#039;s like saying to the football players not to be so &#039;footbally&#039; when they go along to school training sessions to interact with the kids.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The quote from Randy Olson to me sums up the issue here.</p>
<p>&#8220;It’s like asking football players not to wear their cleats in the house. You’re not asking them not to be football players, only to use their specific skills in the right place.&#8221;</p>
<p>To me this is not a great analogy. You would still expect football players at home to act like football players: watching their diet, exercising, taking an interest in their opponents&#8217; games and so on. Scientists are no different. They don&#8217;t bring their gear home. They don&#8217;t bring their experiments home. But they do bring home their questioning and inquiring world-view, their probabilistic view of the world. Because they ARE scientists. </p>
<p>Also, scientists talking to lay people or in interviews are not at home. They are working. As scientists. It&#8217;s like saying to the football players not to be so &#8216;footbally&#8217; when they go along to school training sessions to interact with the kids.</p>
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		<title>By: fasteddie</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2009/08/11/book-preview-for-the-scientist/comment-page-1/#comment-20733</link>
		<dc:creator>fasteddie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 13:52:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2009/08/11/book-preview-for-the-scientist/#comment-20733</guid>
		<description>One of my favorite weekly rituals is listening to NPR&#039;s Science Friday.    Although the show&#039;s producers probably go out of their way to find scientists who have at least rudimentary communication skills, it&#039;s alarming how often the scientists interviewed slip deep into jargon with little or no excitement in their voice.   There&#039;s no reason to think anyone surfing the radio dial at that momemt would stop on NPR to listen to what amounts to the auditory equivalent of dental work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of my favorite weekly rituals is listening to NPR&#8217;s Science Friday.    Although the show&#8217;s producers probably go out of their way to find scientists who have at least rudimentary communication skills, it&#8217;s alarming how often the scientists interviewed slip deep into jargon with little or no excitement in their voice.   There&#8217;s no reason to think anyone surfing the radio dial at that momemt would stop on NPR to listen to what amounts to the auditory equivalent of dental work.</p>
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		<title>By: cromercrox</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2009/08/11/book-preview-for-the-scientist/comment-page-1/#comment-20718</link>
		<dc:creator>cromercrox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 11:37:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2009/08/11/book-preview-for-the-scientist/#comment-20718</guid>
		<description>Journalists are fine. It&#039;s the News Editors you have to worry about. Blogs are great because the journalist can communicate directly with the audience without a News Editor trying to muscle in and put their own spin on things.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Journalists are fine. It&#8217;s the News Editors you have to worry about. Blogs are great because the journalist can communicate directly with the audience without a News Editor trying to muscle in and put their own spin on things.</p>
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		<title>By: RBH</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2009/08/11/book-preview-for-the-scientist/comment-page-1/#comment-20667</link>
		<dc:creator>RBH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 01:56:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2009/08/11/book-preview-for-the-scientist/#comment-20667</guid>
		<description>johnk wrote&lt;blockquote&gt;One would think, on the surface, that a scientist speaking to a large public audience would be relaxed and feel comfortable explaining things at a lay level — perhaps like describing science to a neighbor or friend.&lt;/blockquote&gt;In fact, that&#039;s very hard to do.  I taught at a good undergraduate liberal arts college for 20 years, and I think I have a handle now on how to talk with lay people -- intro students, in effect.  But I have to say some lectures my first few years of teaching were pretty disastrous.

I&#039;ve told beginning profs that the best training I had for teaching was involvement in drama when I was an undergrad (my roommate for a year was a drama major).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>johnk wrote<br />
<blockquote>One would think, on the surface, that a scientist speaking to a large public audience would be relaxed and feel comfortable explaining things at a lay level — perhaps like describing science to a neighbor or friend.</p></blockquote>
<p>In fact, that&#8217;s very hard to do.  I taught at a good undergraduate liberal arts college for 20 years, and I think I have a handle now on how to talk with lay people &#8212; intro students, in effect.  But I have to say some lectures my first few years of teaching were pretty disastrous.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve told beginning profs that the best training I had for teaching was involvement in drama when I was an undergrad (my roommate for a year was a drama major).</p>
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		<title>By: Collide-a-scape &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Collide-a-scape &#62;&#62; The Road Traveled</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2009/08/11/book-preview-for-the-scientist/comment-page-1/#comment-20632</link>
		<dc:creator>Collide-a-scape &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Collide-a-scape &#62;&#62; The Road Traveled</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 19:38:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2009/08/11/book-preview-for-the-scientist/#comment-20632</guid>
		<description>[...] Zimmer surveys the science communication landscape over the last ten years. As he notes, many scientists today are [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Zimmer surveys the science communication landscape over the last ten years. As he notes, many scientists today are [...]</p>
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		<title>By: johnk</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2009/08/11/book-preview-for-the-scientist/comment-page-1/#comment-20609</link>
		<dc:creator>johnk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 15:19:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2009/08/11/book-preview-for-the-scientist/#comment-20609</guid>
		<description>One would think, on the surface, that a scientist speaking to a large public audience would be relaxed and feel comfortable explaining things at a lay level — perhaps like describing science to a neighbor or friend.

But another factor is at work. A scientist speaking to an unseen audience may be cowed by the unseen audience. The speaker may think, &quot;What if the leaders of my field also see this and think I&#039;m oversimplifying or underplaying their work? The safe thing is to over-qualify findings,  to hedge my conclusions and make things complicated. To speak as I speak to scientists.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One would think, on the surface, that a scientist speaking to a large public audience would be relaxed and feel comfortable explaining things at a lay level — perhaps like describing science to a neighbor or friend.</p>
<p>But another factor is at work. A scientist speaking to an unseen audience may be cowed by the unseen audience. The speaker may think, &#8220;What if the leaders of my field also see this and think I&#8217;m oversimplifying or underplaying their work? The safe thing is to over-qualify findings,  to hedge my conclusions and make things complicated. To speak as I speak to scientists.&#8221;</p>
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