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	<title>Comments on: Tom Clynes on arsenic life</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2011/10/01/tom-clynes-on-arsenic-life/</link>
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		<title>By: #ArsenicLife Compendium &#171; biologicalhominin</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2011/10/01/tom-clynes-on-arsenic-life/#comment-17006</link>
		<dc:creator>#ArsenicLife Compendium &#171; biologicalhominin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Nov 2011 23:13:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/?p=5041#comment-17006</guid>
		<description>[...] Zimmer. Oct 1 2011. Tom Clynes on arsenic life. The Loom (Discover). http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2011/10/01/tom-clynes-on-arsenic-life/  Replicating the [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Zimmer. Oct 1 2011. Tom Clynes on arsenic life. The Loom (Discover). <a href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2011/10/01/tom-clynes-on-arsenic-life/" rel="nofollow">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2011/10/01/tom-clynes-on-arsenic-life/</a>  Replicating the [...] </p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2011/10/01/tom-clynes-on-arsenic-life/#comment-17005</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Oct 2011 19:23:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/?p=5041#comment-17005</guid>
		<description>@ Saul Davis

The authors measured P in the 40 mM As media, and its concentration was no different than in the no-As condition where growth did not occur.  I think that you are grossly misrepresenting...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Saul Davis</p>
<p>The authors measured P in the 40 mM As media, and its concentration was no different than in the no-As condition where growth did not occur.  I think that you are grossly misrepresenting&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Neutrality and Bias &#124; AgroEcoPeople</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2011/10/01/tom-clynes-on-arsenic-life/#comment-17004</link>
		<dc:creator>Neutrality and Bias &#124; AgroEcoPeople</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Oct 2011 19:22:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/?p=5041#comment-17004</guid>
		<description>[...] Jay Rosen commenting at DiscoverMagainze.com [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Jay Rosen commenting at DiscoverMagainze.com [...] </p>
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		<title>By: Legions of links (and the odd thought) &#124; Code for Life</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2011/10/01/tom-clynes-on-arsenic-life/#comment-17003</link>
		<dc:creator>Legions of links (and the odd thought) &#124; Code for Life</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Oct 2011 08:45:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/?p=5041#comment-17003</guid>
		<description>[...] Tom Clynes on arsenic life (The Loom at Discover Blogs, 1st October 2011; Carl Zimmer) [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Tom Clynes on arsenic life (The Loom at Discover Blogs, 1st October 2011; Carl Zimmer) [...] </p>
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		<title>By: Saul Davis</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2011/10/01/tom-clynes-on-arsenic-life/#comment-17002</link>
		<dc:creator>Saul Davis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Oct 2011 21:22:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/?p=5041#comment-17002</guid>
		<description>Whether the paper was so flawed it should not have been published is not a matter of opinion.  The bacteria are obviously growing on the phosphate contaminating the 40mM (!) arsenate being used in the media.  I do allege misconduct by the authors.  They grossly misrepresent the data in the  Supplementary Table 1 in the initial article and the Technical Comments and perform another unacceptable distortion of the statistics (standard deviations) in the Technical Comments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whether the paper was so flawed it should not have been published is not a matter of opinion.  The bacteria are obviously growing on the phosphate contaminating the 40mM (!) arsenate being used in the media.  I do allege misconduct by the authors.  They grossly misrepresent the data in the  Supplementary Table 1 in the initial article and the Technical Comments and perform another unacceptable distortion of the statistics (standard deviations) in the Technical Comments.</p>
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		<title>By: Athena Andreadis</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2011/10/01/tom-clynes-on-arsenic-life/#comment-17001</link>
		<dc:creator>Athena Andreadis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Oct 2011 17:08:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/?p=5041#comment-17001</guid>
		<description>One more item in Mr. Clynes&#039; response: &quot;Critically, there’s nothing to indicate that Wolfe-Simon did anything unethical, which might have justified the shrill tone and sweeping proportions of the response.&quot;

Leaving aside the &quot;shrill&quot; part,  I want to point out that this was essentially a microbiology paper lacking level 101 controls; not exotic, difficult techniques but such basics as density gradients. If a scientific paper lacks basic controls there are two conclusions: either the authors are incompetent or they did the experiments, did not like the results they got, and decided to suppress them.

If the former, I dread the future of astrobiology; if the latter, I dread the future of science.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One more item in Mr. Clynes&#8217; response: &#8220;Critically, there’s nothing to indicate that Wolfe-Simon did anything unethical, which might have justified the shrill tone and sweeping proportions of the response.&#8221;</p>
<p>Leaving aside the &#8220;shrill&#8221; part,  I want to point out that this was essentially a microbiology paper lacking level 101 controls; not exotic, difficult techniques but such basics as density gradients. If a scientific paper lacks basic controls there are two conclusions: either the authors are incompetent or they did the experiments, did not like the results they got, and decided to suppress them.</p>
<p>If the former, I dread the future of astrobiology; if the latter, I dread the future of science.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Schmidt</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2011/10/01/tom-clynes-on-arsenic-life/#comment-17000</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Schmidt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Oct 2011 18:29:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/?p=5041#comment-17000</guid>
		<description>People (male and female) are often especially shrill when they&#039;re right, as was the case of the establishment scientists smacking down this young upstart who herself might have been seduced by the glamour.  It&#039;s unfortunate and unnecessary, although the refutation was necessary.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>People (male and female) are often especially shrill when they&#8217;re right, as was the case of the establishment scientists smacking down this young upstart who herself might have been seduced by the glamour.  It&#8217;s unfortunate and unnecessary, although the refutation was necessary.</p>
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		<title>By: Athena Andreadis</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2011/10/01/tom-clynes-on-arsenic-life/#comment-16999</link>
		<dc:creator>Athena Andreadis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Oct 2011 17:04:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/?p=5041#comment-16999</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s is a passage that is factually incorrect and also plays &quot;the wronged genius&quot; card at several levels: &quot;Do I think the paper never should have been published? No. In a profession where young scientists are advised to avoid controversy as they build their careers, Wolfe-Simon pushed against a paradigm and sought answers to some very big questions.&quot;

1. The Oremland group was never told it should not publish its findings -- but that it should have done so after performing basic controls and scaling their conclusions to fit results, not what they would like to think the work showed.

2.  Researchers like Penny Boston have been discovering and characterizing bacteria as exotic as GFAJ-1 for literally decades, and they never got the hype (or even recognition) that their work actually merits.

3.   All results that challenge paradigms are subjected to extra scrutiny, as they should be.  The group&#039;s conclusions were anything but modest and their tone even worse.  The term &quot;shrill&quot; is better applied to the original announcement, rather than to the responses that met it.

4.  I agree that Oremland has a much larger share of responsibility than he has been willing to shoulder, but he&#039;s older, male and established. So he&#039;s cut his losses and is back to business as usual, leaving others (most notably Rosie Redfield) to clean up the mess.  Wolfe-Simon, young, a woman, and just starting, is not as lucky -- and giving interviews to Glamour Magazine while stonewalling colleagues over the scientific issues did not help.

5.  The funding climate in the sciences is so bleak that long-established researchers with decades of work are being pushed out.  To present Wolfe-Simon as a hero rebel &quot;wronged&quot; and &quot;forced out of science&quot; by stodgy sticks-in-the-mud (or jealous wannabes) borders on the disingenuous.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s is a passage that is factually incorrect and also plays &#8220;the wronged genius&#8221; card at several levels: &#8220;Do I think the paper never should have been published? No. In a profession where young scientists are advised to avoid controversy as they build their careers, Wolfe-Simon pushed against a paradigm and sought answers to some very big questions.&#8221;</p>
<p>1. The Oremland group was never told it should not publish its findings &#8212; but that it should have done so after performing basic controls and scaling their conclusions to fit results, not what they would like to think the work showed.</p>
<p>2.  Researchers like Penny Boston have been discovering and characterizing bacteria as exotic as GFAJ-1 for literally decades, and they never got the hype (or even recognition) that their work actually merits.</p>
<p>3.   All results that challenge paradigms are subjected to extra scrutiny, as they should be.  The group&#8217;s conclusions were anything but modest and their tone even worse.  The term &#8220;shrill&#8221; is better applied to the original announcement, rather than to the responses that met it.</p>
<p>4.  I agree that Oremland has a much larger share of responsibility than he has been willing to shoulder, but he&#8217;s older, male and established. So he&#8217;s cut his losses and is back to business as usual, leaving others (most notably Rosie Redfield) to clean up the mess.  Wolfe-Simon, young, a woman, and just starting, is not as lucky &#8212; and giving interviews to Glamour Magazine while stonewalling colleagues over the scientific issues did not help.</p>
<p>5.  The funding climate in the sciences is so bleak that long-established researchers with decades of work are being pushed out.  To present Wolfe-Simon as a hero rebel &#8220;wronged&#8221; and &#8220;forced out of science&#8221; by stodgy sticks-in-the-mud (or jealous wannabes) borders on the disingenuous.</p>
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		<title>By: John Kwok</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2011/10/01/tom-clynes-on-arsenic-life/#comment-16998</link>
		<dc:creator>John Kwok</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Oct 2011 02:14:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/?p=5041#comment-16998</guid>
		<description>@ amphiox -

The author lists his address as a NASA center at the time of publication:

http://journalofcosmology.com/Life100.html

That is indicated as follows:

Fossils of Cyanobacteria in CI1 Carbonaceous Meteorites
Richard B. Hoover, Ph.D. NASA/Marshall Space Flight Center </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ amphiox -</p>
<p>The author lists his address as a NASA center at the time of publication:</p>
<p><a href="http://journalofcosmology.com/Life100.html" rel="nofollow">http://journalofcosmology.com/Life100.html</a></p>
<p>That is indicated as follows:</p>
<p>Fossils of Cyanobacteria in CI1 Carbonaceous Meteorites<br />
Richard B. Hoover, Ph.D. NASA/Marshall Space Flight Center </p>
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		<title>By: amphiox</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2011/10/01/tom-clynes-on-arsenic-life/#comment-16997</link>
		<dc:creator>amphiox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Oct 2011 18:05:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/?p=5041#comment-16997</guid>
		<description>re #5;

My memory may be off, but I don&#039;t recall NASA being in any way involved in the Hoover paper or its subsequent publicity, beyond the fact that Hoover once worked with NASA in the past.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>re #5;</p>
<p>My memory may be off, but I don&#8217;t recall NASA being in any way involved in the Hoover paper or its subsequent publicity, beyond the fact that Hoover once worked with NASA in the past.</p>
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