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	<title>Comments on: The tedious inevitability of Nobel Prize disputes</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2011/10/06/the-tedious-inevitability-of-nobel-prize-disputes/</link>
	<description>A blog about life, past and future. Written by DISCOVER contributing editor and columnist Carl Zimmer.</description>
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		<title>By: The day I met a Nobel Laureate (or, The one and only time I have asked someone for an autograph) &#171; Baldscientist</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2011/10/06/the-tedious-inevitability-of-nobel-prize-disputes/comment-page-1/#comment-66075</link>
		<dc:creator>The day I met a Nobel Laureate (or, The one and only time I have asked someone for an autograph) &#171; Baldscientist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Nov 2011 05:38:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/?p=5052#comment-66075</guid>
		<description>[...] part of the other categories of the Nobel prizes as well. Some even argue that the Nobel is &#8220;a lousy way to recognize important science&#8220;. I strongly disagree with this statement. Any discovery that helps save lives, for example, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] part of the other categories of the Nobel prizes as well. Some even argue that the Nobel is &#8220;a lousy way to recognize important science&#8220;. I strongly disagree with this statement. Any discovery that helps save lives, for example, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: O.R. Pagan</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2011/10/06/the-tedious-inevitability-of-nobel-prize-disputes/comment-page-1/#comment-63806</link>
		<dc:creator>O.R. Pagan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Oct 2011 16:30:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/?p=5052#comment-63806</guid>
		<description>@Daniel and @Sven:

I absolutely agree with you guys; &quot;whomever provides the money for the prize gets to sets the rules&quot;.  There will always be dissenting opinions on EVERYTHING, especially when such a big ($) award is involved.  The way the prizes are awarded may not be perfect, but in a society that as a whole mistrusts and misunderstands science, any way of highlighting scientific discoveries and celebrating scientists is a good thing...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Daniel and @Sven:</p>
<p>I absolutely agree with you guys; &#8220;whomever provides the money for the prize gets to sets the rules&#8221;.  There will always be dissenting opinions on EVERYTHING, especially when such a big ($) award is involved.  The way the prizes are awarded may not be perfect, but in a society that as a whole mistrusts and misunderstands science, any way of highlighting scientific discoveries and celebrating scientists is a good thing&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: David B. Benson</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2011/10/06/the-tedious-inevitability-of-nobel-prize-disputes/comment-page-1/#comment-63740</link>
		<dc:creator>David B. Benson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Oct 2011 02:04:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/?p=5052#comment-63740</guid>
		<description>And then there are less well pubilized but highly prestigeous prizes.  For example, the Fields Medals for mathematicians and the Kyoto Prize (~$650,000) for the best work over a wide span of the sciences.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And then there are less well pubilized but highly prestigeous prizes.  For example, the Fields Medals for mathematicians and the Kyoto Prize (~$650,000) for the best work over a wide span of the sciences.</p>
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		<title>By: I’ve got your missing links right here (8 October 2011) &#124; Not Exactly Rocket Science &#124; Freedom Developers</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2011/10/06/the-tedious-inevitability-of-nobel-prize-disputes/comment-page-1/#comment-63723</link>
		<dc:creator>I’ve got your missing links right here (8 October 2011) &#124; Not Exactly Rocket Science &#124; Freedom Developers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Oct 2011 21:10:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/?p=5052#comment-63723</guid>
		<description>[...] was given to a scientist that many feel is undeserving of the honour,” says Kevin Bonham. But Carl Zimmer argues that Nobel Prize disputes are tedious and inevitable. “The people behind the Nobel Prize have [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] was given to a scientist that many feel is undeserving of the honour,” says Kevin Bonham. But Carl Zimmer argues that Nobel Prize disputes are tedious and inevitable. “The people behind the Nobel Prize have [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Naumadd</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2011/10/06/the-tedious-inevitability-of-nobel-prize-disputes/comment-page-1/#comment-63641</link>
		<dc:creator>Naumadd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Oct 2011 22:59:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/?p=5052#comment-63641</guid>
		<description>One should always remember that the prizes are much more about the people giving them than those receiving them. If I choose to give a prize for best book of the year, the choice is about me, not who wins and who loses. My choice is necessarily subjective. If the choice was intended to be objective, I would clearly spell out the specific criteria I intend to use in judging. In that case, the winner doesn&#039;t necessarily represent my personal favorite. My subjective choice is right for me, but the choice is never intended to be &quot;right&quot; according to everyone else. In that sense, it is silly for them to argue amongst themselves about how unfair I was to this book or that book. I judge by my values, not theirs. They are free to choose as they like and, if able, award their favorite(s). I take it for granted that the Nobel committe sometimes awards to those I favor and sometimes not. It&#039;s not really for me to say who they OUGHT to choose. It&#039;s not my prize to give. Is it yours?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One should always remember that the prizes are much more about the people giving them than those receiving them. If I choose to give a prize for best book of the year, the choice is about me, not who wins and who loses. My choice is necessarily subjective. If the choice was intended to be objective, I would clearly spell out the specific criteria I intend to use in judging. In that case, the winner doesn&#8217;t necessarily represent my personal favorite. My subjective choice is right for me, but the choice is never intended to be &#8220;right&#8221; according to everyone else. In that sense, it is silly for them to argue amongst themselves about how unfair I was to this book or that book. I judge by my values, not theirs. They are free to choose as they like and, if able, award their favorite(s). I take it for granted that the Nobel committe sometimes awards to those I favor and sometimes not. It&#8217;s not really for me to say who they OUGHT to choose. It&#8217;s not my prize to give. Is it yours?</p>
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		<title>By: John Kubie</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2011/10/06/the-tedious-inevitability-of-nobel-prize-disputes/comment-page-1/#comment-63621</link>
		<dc:creator>John Kubie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Oct 2011 15:15:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/?p=5052#comment-63621</guid>
		<description>I remember a few years ago when Ray Damadian took out a whole-page ad in the NY Times protesting that he did not share nobel prize awarded to the developers MRI ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I remember a few years ago when Ray Damadian took out a whole-page ad in the NY Times protesting that he did not share nobel prize awarded to the developers MRI &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: David B. Benson</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2011/10/06/the-tedious-inevitability-of-nobel-prize-disputes/comment-page-1/#comment-63561</link>
		<dc:creator>David B. Benson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Oct 2011 01:51:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/?p=5052#comment-63561</guid>
		<description>Ok, the visible universe is accelerating apart.  I see no reason to suspect that the visible part is all there is.  Further away there is more matter, maybe much denser, which is gravitationally attracting the visible matter.  This hypothesis is perhaps falsifiable, which ought to be enough.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok, the visible universe is accelerating apart.  I see no reason to suspect that the visible part is all there is.  Further away there is more matter, maybe much denser, which is gravitationally attracting the visible matter.  This hypothesis is perhaps falsifiable, which ought to be enough.</p>
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		<title>By: Sven</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2011/10/06/the-tedious-inevitability-of-nobel-prize-disputes/comment-page-1/#comment-63560</link>
		<dc:creator>Sven</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Oct 2011 01:37:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/?p=5052#comment-63560</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s a valid point, but a legally moot one, since the committees didn&#039;t make the rule that the prize can&#039;t be shared by more than three people. It&#039;s in the statutes of the Nobel Foundation. And besides the fact that foundations created by a will have very little legal room to change their statutes after over 110 years, they especially can&#039;t change the number of people sharing a prize, because they&#039;re obligated by a legal agreement made with Nobel&#039;s heirs back in 1898. 

In short, they likely could not change this even if they wanted to. 

What seems almost as inevitable as disputes over the prize, is people suggesting new prizes or rule changes, without realizing how little legal room there is to maneuver in. They&#039;re effectively the executors of Nobel&#039;s will, so it doesn&#039;t really matter if the rules are absurd or outdated. (And there _are_ lots of absurd and anachronistic such organizations out there, handing out &quot;scholarships for unwed former-milkmaids who want to learn needlepoint&quot;, or what-have-you.  I don&#039;t think the Nobel Prize rules are quite so absurd as to ever relegate the Nobels to that status, though.)

Frankly, I&#039;m not too sure it&#039;s anachronistic either. Even if we all know science isn&#039;t done so much by individuals anymore, with today&#039;s short-attention-span media, having a handful of individuals to focus on probably garners them (and thus the discovery) more attention than awarding a huge group would.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s a valid point, but a legally moot one, since the committees didn&#8217;t make the rule that the prize can&#8217;t be shared by more than three people. It&#8217;s in the statutes of the Nobel Foundation. And besides the fact that foundations created by a will have very little legal room to change their statutes after over 110 years, they especially can&#8217;t change the number of people sharing a prize, because they&#8217;re obligated by a legal agreement made with Nobel&#8217;s heirs back in 1898. </p>
<p>In short, they likely could not change this even if they wanted to. </p>
<p>What seems almost as inevitable as disputes over the prize, is people suggesting new prizes or rule changes, without realizing how little legal room there is to maneuver in. They&#8217;re effectively the executors of Nobel&#8217;s will, so it doesn&#8217;t really matter if the rules are absurd or outdated. (And there _are_ lots of absurd and anachronistic such organizations out there, handing out &#8220;scholarships for unwed former-milkmaids who want to learn needlepoint&#8221;, or what-have-you.  I don&#8217;t think the Nobel Prize rules are quite so absurd as to ever relegate the Nobels to that status, though.)</p>
<p>Frankly, I&#8217;m not too sure it&#8217;s anachronistic either. Even if we all know science isn&#8217;t done so much by individuals anymore, with today&#8217;s short-attention-span media, having a handful of individuals to focus on probably garners them (and thus the discovery) more attention than awarding a huge group would.</p>
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		<title>By: Torbjorn Larsson, OM</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2011/10/06/the-tedious-inevitability-of-nobel-prize-disputes/comment-page-1/#comment-63559</link>
		<dc:creator>Torbjorn Larsson, OM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Oct 2011 00:49:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/?p=5052#comment-63559</guid>
		<description>The dark energy questioning reminds me of what someone said recently, that it will take a long time before people give up on Big Bang theory and accept the new inflationary standard cosmology. Hopefully not before the universe dies the freeze death, but as Bohr once said that it happens when the old believers die out.

&quot;It would have been fun to watch Schmidt go up against the Nobel Prize committee. He would have lost, of course, but at least he would have made an important point.&quot;

Oh, this falls under the Nobel Foundation too. Not that I think the post is erroneous on this point, but Schmidt (and/or the Committee) would eventually have to haggle it out with them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The dark energy questioning reminds me of what someone said recently, that it will take a long time before people give up on Big Bang theory and accept the new inflationary standard cosmology. Hopefully not before the universe dies the freeze death, but as Bohr once said that it happens when the old believers die out.</p>
<p>&#8220;It would have been fun to watch Schmidt go up against the Nobel Prize committee. He would have lost, of course, but at least he would have made an important point.&#8221;</p>
<p>Oh, this falls under the Nobel Foundation too. Not that I think the post is erroneous on this point, but Schmidt (and/or the Committee) would eventually have to haggle it out with them.</p>
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		<title>By: Torbjorn Larsson, OM</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2011/10/06/the-tedious-inevitability-of-nobel-prize-disputes/comment-page-1/#comment-63557</link>
		<dc:creator>Torbjorn Larsson, OM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Oct 2011 00:28:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/?p=5052#comment-63557</guid>
		<description>&quot;It is entirely unclear that “dark energy” causes the accelerating expansion.&quot;

While the Nobel Prize correction was correct, this is wrong. It is entirely clear that dark energy causes the accelerating expansion of the universe, as it is an indelible part of the theory that is the only one that explains the observations to date. 

What is unclear is what dark energy is. (But there is a most reasonable mechanism that predicts many similar observations of vacuum interaction, namely vacuum energy.)

Also, it isn&#039;t cleverness in physics but in politics that makes the Nobel Committee prefer observations over theories as the Nobel will is geared towards inventions and &quot;discoveries&quot;. Observations is a much easier sell towards the Noble Foundation, that oversees the will and how it is used. This is presumably why Einstein couldn&#039;t get a prize for his theories but for his models based on theories (&quot;explanation&quot; of photoelectric effect).

[I was curious of why Riess would question dark energy. Turns out &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.stsci.edu/~ariess/darkEnergy.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;he doesn&#039;t&lt;/a&gt;: &quot;However, we have really just literally and figuratively reached the end of the beginning for acceleration and dark energy. Our quest now is to understand the nature of dark energy, i.e., the physical principles behind its existence.&quot; He is just hedging above.]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;It is entirely unclear that “dark energy” causes the accelerating expansion.&#8221;</p>
<p>While the Nobel Prize correction was correct, this is wrong. It is entirely clear that dark energy causes the accelerating expansion of the universe, as it is an indelible part of the theory that is the only one that explains the observations to date. </p>
<p>What is unclear is what dark energy is. (But there is a most reasonable mechanism that predicts many similar observations of vacuum interaction, namely vacuum energy.)</p>
<p>Also, it isn&#8217;t cleverness in physics but in politics that makes the Nobel Committee prefer observations over theories as the Nobel will is geared towards inventions and &#8220;discoveries&#8221;. Observations is a much easier sell towards the Noble Foundation, that oversees the will and how it is used. This is presumably why Einstein couldn&#8217;t get a prize for his theories but for his models based on theories (&#8220;explanation&#8221; of photoelectric effect).</p>
<p>[I was curious of why Riess would question dark energy. Turns out <a href="http://www.stsci.edu/~ariess/darkEnergy.htm" rel="nofollow">he doesn't</a>: "However, we have really just literally and figuratively reached the end of the beginning for acceleration and dark energy. Our quest now is to understand the nature of dark energy, i.e., the physical principles behind its existence." He is just hedging above.]</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Too</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2011/10/06/the-tedious-inevitability-of-nobel-prize-disputes/comment-page-1/#comment-63556</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Too</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Oct 2011 23:17:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/?p=5052#comment-63556</guid>
		<description>Many times problems that seem intractable are only viewed that way because obvious points of friction are not addressed.

It has long seemed to me that the limit on 3 prize winners, and the requirement to be living, are more than a little arbitrary.

Yes they may address certain (potential) problems, but a rules modification could easily address those situations just as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Many times problems that seem intractable are only viewed that way because obvious points of friction are not addressed.</p>
<p>It has long seemed to me that the limit on 3 prize winners, and the requirement to be living, are more than a little arbitrary.</p>
<p>Yes they may address certain (potential) problems, but a rules modification could easily address those situations just as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2011/10/06/the-tedious-inevitability-of-nobel-prize-disputes/comment-page-1/#comment-63537</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Oct 2011 19:33:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/?p=5052#comment-63537</guid>
		<description>@ Carl - I agree with absolutely all of this. Doesn&#039;t make it hurt less though.

@ Matt - Exactly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Carl &#8211; I agree with absolutely all of this. Doesn&#8217;t make it hurt less though.</p>
<p>@ Matt &#8211; Exactly.</p>
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		<title>By: John Douglas Porter</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2011/10/06/the-tedious-inevitability-of-nobel-prize-disputes/comment-page-1/#comment-63535</link>
		<dc:creator>John Douglas Porter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Oct 2011 19:22:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/?p=5052#comment-63535</guid>
		<description>A lot of people are saying that the Nobel Prize was awarded for &quot;work on the dark energy that is accelerating the expansion of the universe.&quot;  However, this is not the case. It is entirely unclear that &quot;dark energy&quot;  causes the accelerating expansion. No, the prize was awarded &quot;for the discovery of the accelerating expansion of the Universe through observations of distant supernovae.&quot; (Nobel Committee quote) 

Adam Riess spells it out:
&quot;The Nobel committee were cleverly able to separate the cause and effect. They identified the observation of the acceleration of the universe as what the Nobel prize is for; whereas the cause of it may be dark energy, but it may not. That&#039;s something we are still unsure about. The Nobel prize is not for that.&quot;

&lt;strong&gt;[CZ: Thanks. I&#039;ll edit the post.]&lt;/strong&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A lot of people are saying that the Nobel Prize was awarded for &#8220;work on the dark energy that is accelerating the expansion of the universe.&#8221;  However, this is not the case. It is entirely unclear that &#8220;dark energy&#8221;  causes the accelerating expansion. No, the prize was awarded &#8220;for the discovery of the accelerating expansion of the Universe through observations of distant supernovae.&#8221; (Nobel Committee quote) </p>
<p>Adam Riess spells it out:<br />
&#8220;The Nobel committee were cleverly able to separate the cause and effect. They identified the observation of the acceleration of the universe as what the Nobel prize is for; whereas the cause of it may be dark energy, but it may not. That&#8217;s something we are still unsure about. The Nobel prize is not for that.&#8221;</p>
<p><strong>[CZ: Thanks. I'll edit the post.]</strong></p>
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		<title>By: Daniel</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2011/10/06/the-tedious-inevitability-of-nobel-prize-disputes/comment-page-1/#comment-63532</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Oct 2011 19:05:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/?p=5052#comment-63532</guid>
		<description>What annoys me about Nobel prize disputes is that a lot of people and a big part of the media seem to have the perspective that every worthy discovery deserves a Nobel prize. Like it&#039;s something you SHOULD get. Like it&#039;s OWED to some people/discoveries. That&#039;s not at all what it is! It&#039;s a prize, an award... decided on by small committees parting from one man&#039;s will from over a hundred years ago. By definition it&#039;s going to be unfair and exclusive, how could it not be? But that&#039;s beside the point because a Nobel prize, indeed any prize, is not a right, it&#039;s a privilege. You can&#039;t demand privileges. In a sense it&#039;s a shame that it has become the &quot;highest achievement in science&quot;, because that&#039;s never what the intention was behind it. Where is the sense in getting disappointed because the Nobel prize isn&#039;t what it wasn&#039;t intended to be?

The same goes for all awards, but as a commenter before me wrote - if the other scientific awards were equally prominent it wouldn&#039;t be an issue. The Nobel prize would be one among them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What annoys me about Nobel prize disputes is that a lot of people and a big part of the media seem to have the perspective that every worthy discovery deserves a Nobel prize. Like it&#8217;s something you SHOULD get. Like it&#8217;s OWED to some people/discoveries. That&#8217;s not at all what it is! It&#8217;s a prize, an award&#8230; decided on by small committees parting from one man&#8217;s will from over a hundred years ago. By definition it&#8217;s going to be unfair and exclusive, how could it not be? But that&#8217;s beside the point because a Nobel prize, indeed any prize, is not a right, it&#8217;s a privilege. You can&#8217;t demand privileges. In a sense it&#8217;s a shame that it has become the &#8220;highest achievement in science&#8221;, because that&#8217;s never what the intention was behind it. Where is the sense in getting disappointed because the Nobel prize isn&#8217;t what it wasn&#8217;t intended to be?</p>
<p>The same goes for all awards, but as a commenter before me wrote &#8211; if the other scientific awards were equally prominent it wouldn&#8217;t be an issue. The Nobel prize would be one among them.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2011/10/06/the-tedious-inevitability-of-nobel-prize-disputes/comment-page-1/#comment-63529</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Oct 2011 18:41:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/?p=5052#comment-63529</guid>
		<description>If all of the other science prizes were as (publicly) recognized and celebrated as the nobel, this wouldn&#039;t be nearly as much of an issue. 

Celebrate Science!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If all of the other science prizes were as (publicly) recognized and celebrated as the nobel, this wouldn&#8217;t be nearly as much of an issue. </p>
<p>Celebrate Science!</p>
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		<title>By: Luke Scientiæ</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2011/10/06/the-tedious-inevitability-of-nobel-prize-disputes/comment-page-1/#comment-63527</link>
		<dc:creator>Luke Scientiæ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Oct 2011 18:39:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/?p=5052#comment-63527</guid>
		<description>[...] post by Carl Zimmer of The Loom about the shortcomings of the Nobel Prizes as a means of recognizing complex scientific discoveries. Here&#8217;s an excerpt. Go and read the whole thing, though. If the Nobel Prize makes more people [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] post by Carl Zimmer of The Loom about the shortcomings of the Nobel Prizes as a means of recognizing complex scientific discoveries. Here&#8217;s an excerpt. Go and read the whole thing, though. If the Nobel Prize makes more people [...]</p>
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